Claiborne vs Haden

[TheMarathonContinues]

Joe Haden....in his best years was a top 5 corner AT LEAST.

But i'll say this. I do think people have a misconception about cornerbacks that they don't get beat. You have some corners who rarely get thrown on. You have some who bite routes and get beat deep or make turnovers. You have some who simply get beat 2 or 3 times a game. Getting beat 2 or 3 times a game isn't terrible. But its like Claiborne is asked to be Darrel Revis in his prime when in reality he's a younger player who's still learning the position.

 

[Frozen700]

dallas has played 3 games this season.
Mo has been mediocre, very good, and very bad.

Haden has been mediocre, mediocre, mediocre.

Newsflash! CB give up plays and have bad games.

Haden is a better Cb than Mo but he has had his ups and downs

BTW, Haden is not ALL PRO and in fact has made one Pro Bowl team, his 4th year in the league.
He's said himself he isn't playing well right now.
Sounds exactly like Mo actually.

Stop it, MO hasn't been good at alll since he's got here.

I know he wears a star, and you may actually be a fan of his, but its not just this season, dude is trash

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

First let me say count me in the group that agrees Claiborne has not lived up to his draft status. I can remember the draft like it was yesterday still. Once I heard the cowboys had traded up everyone knew who they were taking. Hopefully his deserved demotion will light a fire and he can at least turn into a quality starting CB. With that we all know MC is 95 out of 96 corners but check this out...the great Joe Haden is also not performing up to his lofty draft selection as well...why am I sharing this....? Hey the cowboys are not the only team to miss on a name coming out of college...

Coach Mike Pettine called out CB Joe Haden Monday.
Haden gave up a critical 32-yard gain to Steve Smith late in Sunday's loss to the Ravens. "The great ones are going to make big plays when it's needed, and I think that's one area where Joe will look to improve," said Pettine. Haden is PFF's No. 94 corner among 96 qualifiers through three weeks. Despite a big name and big contract, he's not a corner fantasy owners should be shying away from. Sep 23 - 9:13 AM

If only Garrett could bring hisself to say publicly what he really think of Claiburne.

 

[darthseinfeld]

You never we could trade Mo for Haden straight up and Haden could turn into trash while Mo winds up making All Pro teams, childrens dreams come true, the cover of People Magazine, and sex tapes with Miley Cyrus. Just living the Miata Life

I mean....Alan Ball is a quality starter in thr NFL nowadays

 

[TimHortons]

BTW, Haden is not ALL PRO and in fact has made one Pro Bowl team, his 4th year in the league.
He's said himself he isn't playing well right now.
Sounds exactly like Mo actually.

Haden made the AP All-Pro 2nd team last year
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...y-unanimous-selection-on-2013-nfl-allpro-team

 

[jason54858]

This thread gives me an idea. Brady is not having his best year either this year.

Weeded vs. Brady

It's coming guys

 

[Kevinicus]

What the.....

Are we really talking about Haden and Claiborne in the same thread?

We are talking an All Pro, and top 3 corner is the league right now. Who is struggling just a little, but so are his his top other fellows in Sherman and Pat P.

MO on the other hand is getting down right abused, can't keep his hands off other men, and falls to the floor every chance he gets.

Abused? Really? 56 yds in weeks one and 2, and a guy pushes off and he's being abused. People really like to make up stories. Mo has easily been the best corner on the team this year.

 

[Frozen700]

Abused? Really? 56 yds in weeks one and 2, and a guy pushes off and he's being abused. People really like to make up stories. Mo has easily been the best corner on the team this year.

People like to make up stories? So what type of fairy-tale bull are you trying to feed us with that last sentence?

You must be MO, or his brother. Mother maybe? What you said is ridiculous. Brandon Carr barely has passes thrown his way, and Scandrick is the best of all our corners, so stop it.

MO has a problem with keeping his hands off other men, and playing with proper technique when the ball is launched. He panics, and resorts to fondling the opponent. Then on top of that he is always on the floor, just diving and falling.

Stop looking at just these 3 games(Which he has been horrible) the years past, you want to just ignore that as well? Alan Ball is better than this guy at this point.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Haden's bad games are milestones claiborne strives to achieve.

This is what I was thinking. Hayden on his worst days has still been better than Mo on his best days.

 

[Kevinicus]

People like to make up stories? So what type of fairy-tale bull are you trying to feed us with that last sentence?

You must be MO, or his brother. Mother maybe? What you said is ridiculous. Brandon Carr barely has passes thrown his way, and Scandrick is the best of all our corners, so stop it.

MO has a problem with keeping his hands off other men, and playing with proper technique when the ball is launched. He panics, and resorts to fondling the opponent. Then on top of that he is always on the floor, just diving and falling.

Stop looking at just these 3 games(Which he has been horrible) the years past, you want to just ignore that as well? Alan Ball is better than this guy at this point.

Scandrick has barely played and was suspended if you remember. How could he even POSSIBLY be the best corner on the team this year? And Carr? His game against St. Louis easily worse than Mo's. He was beat by Britt several times, only bad throws bailed him out.

And horrible in years past? He was very solid as a rookie, and very solid down the stretch last year. People like to decide on something, and then ignore all evidence that doesn't support it, and inflate all evidence that might.

That's been done with Mo to an extreme. He can play 7 or 8 good games in a row (2nd half against Denver, Washington, Philly, half of Detroit, NY, Philly, SF - It really wasn't bad, Ten), and have one bad play and people start talking about what a bust he is.

 

[yimyammer]

Put it this way - corners are going to continue to struggle since the game is in favor of the offense. If a team was smart they would invest in a pass rush and put an average CB on someone and jam them and hope the pass rush gets to them.

No doubt, defenses are playing at a growing disadvantage given the rules and injury concerns. Its starting to feel like the NBA in that defenses don't seem to do much more than slow down the inevitable.

Makes me think a math genius could do some statistical analysis of performance vs cost/benefit and maybe draw an outside the box conclusion in determining how much cap should be allocated to the CB position

 

[jterrell]

I don't think the judgment is being made with regards to math but ability.

so then we live in a non cap related dream world where player swaps have no cap effect? if so put me down for Rodgers over Romo. I'll also take Larry Allen over Zach Martin in this dream sequence.

not sure how it makes any logical sense to weigh where someone was drafted (past act) but ignore how much they cost? (current and future consequence)

i guess you saying those are short-sighted people with no ability to think beyond their fingertips....

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Abused? Really? 56 yds in weeks one and 2, and a guy pushes off and he's being abused. People really like to make up stories. Mo has easily been the best corner on the team this year.

So, Mo is our best corner? Okay, so we should be able to get something good for him in a trade, right? Right? What do you think any team would offer us right now for Claiborne in a trade? I don't think we could even get a 3rd round pick for him right now. If someone is offering a 2nd, I am jumping all over that offer ASAP.

 

[tyke1doe]

so then we live in a non cap related dream world where player swaps have no cap effect? if so put me down for Rodgers over Romo. I'll also take Larry Allen over Zach Martin in this dream sequence.

not sure how it makes any logical sense to weigh where someone was drafted (past act) but ignore how much they cost? (current and future consequence)

i guess you saying those are short-sighted people with no ability to think beyond their fingertips....

Sigh.

It's like me saying to my 15-year-old son, "Son, you're the best child a father could ever have" and then Larry Fitzgerald's dad responding, "Well, my son is a millionaire and plays in the NFL so your son can't be the best child a father could ever have."

My statement isn't meant to be taken literally and encompass all aspects of reality. It's merely a sentiment based on a personal observation and a personal feeling.

And it's odd that you would be picky about the statement when no one in here has the ability to make such a trade. So that should have clued you into the fact that people are speaking outside the realm of reality.

You merely sought an opportunity to be condescending and seized it. Bravo! Well done!

 

[Kevinicus]

So, Mo is our best corner? Okay, so we should be able to get something good for him in a trade, right? Right? What do you think any team would offer us right now for Claiborne in a trade? I don't think we could even get a 3rd round pick for him right now. If someone is offering a 2nd, I am jumping all over that offer ASAP.

I said he has been the best corner this year. That doesn't make him great. Scandrick hasn't played enough to be considered. Do you think we would get a 2nd or 3rd for Carr, Moore, or anyone else?

 

[Frozen700]

Scandrick has barely played and was suspended if you remember. How could he even POSSIBLY be the best corner on the team this year? And Carr? His game against St. Louis easily worse than Mo's. He was beat by Britt several times, only bad throws bailed him out.

And horrible in years past? He was very solid as a rookie, and very solid down the stretch last year. People like to decide on something, and then ignore all evidence that doesn't support it, and inflate all evidence that might.

That's been done with Mo to an extreme. He can play 7 or 8 good games in a row (2nd half against Denver, Washington, Philly, half of Detroit, NY, Philly, SF - It really wasn't bad, Ten), and have one bad play and people start talking about what a bust he is.

Honestly bro, you seem like a good dude. So I won't keep going on and on.

I don't know if you are just a homer, or you really believe MO is good, but I almost feel bad either way.

I really hope you are trolling.

About Scandrick, he has proven he is our best, and last year solidified that. Put Carr or MO, on Welker, and Cruz all game long(Slot, outside, everywhere) (Oh and slot is the hardest position for any corner, Peterson agrees with me) Put them on those guys and let's see what would happen. We are maybe talking about a whole different stat line.

 

[Frozen700]

I said he has been the best corner this year. That doesn't make him great. Scandrick hasn't played enough to be considered. Do you think we would get a 2nd or 3rd for Carr, Moore, or anyone else?

Regardless what we could get from Scandrick, he is miles ahead of both. Carr is miles ahead of Mo.

 

[Jenky]

I like Claiborne but I can't say he's better than Scandrick. He does things that completely take himself out of the play, i.e. diving or completely whiffing on passes. That's a big no-no.

You have to know when you're beat and try to focus on making the tackle.

 

[Kevinicus]

Honestly bro, you seem like a good dude. So I won't keep going on and on.

I don't know if you are just a homer, or you really believe MO is good, but I almost feel bad either way.

I really hope you are trolling.

About Scandrick, he has proven he is our best, and last year solidified that. Put Carr or MO, on Welker, and Cruz all game long(Slot, outside, everywhere) (Oh and slot is the hardest position for any corner, Peterson agrees with me) Put them on those guys and let's see what would happen. We are maybe talking about a whole different stat line.

I believe Mo can be, and has been good. But he as also been bad. I don't believe in blindly following one view when there is evidence to the contrary. Has Mo had some bad moments? Absolutely. Has he had good ones? Absolutely. And I would say the good actually quite significantly outweighs the bad. There is a tendency, however, for people to jump on any little play that was bad by Mo, and completely ignore any good play. Mo did not have a bad game from the 2nd half of the Denver game until St. Louis, yet he has been crucified repeatedly as if he was god awful. That just simply hasn't been the case. And even against St. Louis the one glaring bad play, there was a clear push off by the receiver. If you want to get into his ability to stay healthy, that's another thing, but as far as coverage goes, he's been pretty solid for quite awhile now.

 

[Kevinicus]

Regardless what we could get from Scandrick, he is miles ahead of both. Carr is miles ahead of Mo.

Carr gets beat far more than Mo.