Co-defendent to rat Vick out?

[sago1]

It was not my intention to make it sound honorable but more to emphasize his willingness vs risk being labeled a "rat" and "snitch" by some people. Admittedly to save his own neck, he's reached and deal and I for one am delighted. The more evidence the Feds can find and pile on Vick for his involvement in this disgusting activity (not only the dogfighting itself but the resultant killing of so many dogs in such brutal fashion is great with me. Because we can be sure of one thing, Vick's attornys are getting big bucks to paint all those who testify against Vicks as cretins (which they are) but so is Vick even to more of an extent cause he's financing the whole thing since he year he was drafted.

 

[skinsscalper]

Just wondering, did all u guys feel this way when Irvin, Newton, Eric Williams, Leon Lett, were always in trouble with the law.....not the vick case but in terms of everytime someone gets stopped by the law, alot of guys on this board calls them idoits off the top and say they should be banned for life......I'm just wondering if Ware or Romo were to get in trouble would the same guys feel the same way....

It's a good question, but I think you're going overboard with the calls for banishment "for life". It's been said by a few about a few.

Me? I was PISSED off at Irvin big time. He was jeopordizing a lot of things for a lot of people. As far as his crime goes, it pales in comparison (morally) for alot of people to Vick's (right or wrong). The reason is the "victims" in each case. Americans are "dog people" always have been. And, while some people consider them property, a majority think of them as family. So, in the eyes of a lot of people, the graphic detail of Vick ordering potential "family members" being put to death in ways that would make Hitler blush strikes a nerve in the vast majority of the American public that is emotionally charged from the get go.

Irvin? His (perceived) victims were himself, his teammates, and his family (I include us fans in his extended family). The big difference between Vick's "victims" and Irvin's is free will. His wife had every right to kick his *** to the curb, so did his teammates and employer. The stripper he got caught with? She was hardly a victim and just as much of a perpetrator. The drug dealer that he got his coke from? Hardly a victim.

Now, back to how we would feel if Romo got into trouble. Well, it would depend on the trouble. If was dong what Vick is accused of doing, I would think the same of him that I think of Vick. Drunk driving? Hell, yes I'm mad he just put a promising season at risk. Ready to "ban him for life"? Not so much. As I wouldn't be if it were Vick, or Brady, or Portis.

SS

 

[skinsscalper]

It was not my intention to make it sound honorable but more to emphasize his willingness vs risk being labeled a "rat" and "snitch" by some people. Admittedly to save his own neck, he's reached and deal and I for one am delighted. The more evidence the Feds can find and pile on Vick for his involvement in this disgusting activity (not only the dogfighting itself but the resultant killing of so many dogs in such brutal fashion is great with me. Because we can be sure of one thing, Vick's attornys are getting big bucks to paint all those who testify against Vicks as cretins (which they are) but so is Vick even to more of an extent cause he's financing the whole thing since he year he was drafted.

Now THAT I agree 100% with.

SS

 

[silverbear]

Because noone in the history of the universe has ever been able to run a large organized crime scene without the backing of major dollars up front, right?

You figure any of the others could afford 400k to buy the property and build the house and sheds?? You figure they could afford to FEED all those dogs, which one expert from the Humane Society estimated would cost 100 bucks A DAY??

When these guys were living off of Vick, in his house, paying no rent??

You believe in the Tooth Fairy too, don't you?? This was more than a "crime scene", it was a BUSINESS... businesses require capital, none of the other codefendants has that kind of capital available...

 

[silverbear]

Actually it's not. I was being sarcastic to demonstrate the stupidity of the notion.

Then I owe you an apology too... I saw it was sarcasm, but I misread where it was directed...

 

[5Stars]

So now the feds have a co-defendant that is going to testify against Vick, and 4 CW's...! Man, this is getting crazier by the day!

 

[Kangaroo]

While when you throw someone under the bus like Vick did to save himself millions and jail time what do you think that guy is going to do.

He is going to rollover on you for throwing him under the bus. Then his attorney probably looked at the evidence against his client and said you are going to do time and i can not stop that how much time do you want to do ?

So he did what he had to rollover and spill the beans

 

[JackMagist]

Just wondering, did all u guys feel this way when Irvin, Newton, Eric Williams, Leon Lett, were always in trouble with the law.....not the vick case but in terms of everytime someone gets stopped by the law, alot of guys on this board calls them idoits off the top and say they should be banned for life......I'm just wondering if Ware or Romo were to get in trouble would the same guys feel the same way....

Irvin and Lett were hurting themselves with self destructive behavior; they were not hurting other people or innocent animals so "NO". I did not see any reason that they should not get a second chance. I was highly disappointed and embarrassed by their actions and was in no way opposed to the suspensions that they received...as I said very disappointed.

Big Nate was already out of football before he got into trouble and so the point is moot in his case.

When Eric Williams was accused of rape I would have been all for throwing him out of the game for life had he been guilty...he was NOT guilty and it was proven that he was not. But this is the only case that you mention that is in any way comparable to the Vick case a crime with a victim (or alleged victim). But it also points out why I think that we should all reserve judgment until he has had his day in court.

As unlikely as it seems Vick may indeed surprise us all and produce evidence that he was setup (or otherwise prove his innocence) and had nothing to do with the dogfighting. So until he is convicted he should not be banned from football. If (or when) he is convicted or pleads guilty then I'm all for kicking his butt to the curb...out of the NFL for life.

 

[CowboyJeff]

Irvin and Lett were hurting themselves with self destructive behavior; they were not hurting other people or innocent animals so "NO". I did not see any reason that they should not get a second chance. I was highly disappointed and embarrassed by their actions and was in no way opposed to the suspensions that they received...as I said very disappointed.

Big Nate was already out of football before he got into trouble and so the point is moot in his case.

When Eric Williams was accused of rape I would have been all for throwing him out of the game for life had he been guilty...he was NOT guilty and it was proven that he was not. But this is the only case that you mention that is in any way comparable to the Vick case a crime with a victim (or alleged victim). But it also points out why I think that we should all reserve judgment until he has had his day in court.

As unlikely as it seems Vick may indeed surprise us all and produce evidence that he was setup (or otherwise prove his innocence) and had nothing to do with the dogfighting. So until he is convicted he should not be banned from football. If (or when) he is convicted or pleads guilty then I'm all for kicking his butt to the curb...out of the NFL for life.

that's why I love OJ. He's innocent.

 

[JackMagist]

that's why I love OJ. He's innocent.

OJ's case is also not relevant in this discussion since it occurred after his playing days were over. He was done with football and already in the HoF before he was not found guilty in that incident.

You know...just to stay on point

 

[Hostile]

Just wondering, did all u guys feel this way when Irvin, Newton, Eric Williams, Leon Lett, were always in trouble with the law.....not the vick case but in terms of everytime someone gets stopped by the law, alot of guys on this board calls them idoits off the top and say they should be banned for life......I'm just wondering if Ware or Romo were to get in trouble would the same guys feel the same way....

Yes, I did.

If this were Tony Romo instead of Vick I think the coverage of it would be just as intense because he is the QB of the Dallas Cowboys. The only other QBs whom I think could generate this kind of furor are Manning and Brady. It's just the kind of story the media would feed on.

I don't care who it is who is involved in this. I don't care what team they play for, this is disgusting and that person deserves everything happening to him. So, to answer your question, yes, I would be just as pissed if it was one of our guys.

Maybe even more pissed.

 

[superpunk]

You figure any of the others could afford 400k to buy the property and build the house and sheds?? You figure they could afford to FEED all those dogs, which one expert from the Humane Society estimated would cost 100 bucks A DAY??

When these guys were living off of Vick, in his house, paying no rent??

You believe in the Tooth Fairy too, don't you?? This was more than a "crime scene", it was a BUSINESS... businesses require capital, none of the other codefendants has that kind of capital available...

Then I owe you an apology too... I saw it was sarcasm, but I misread where it was directed...

No, you read it correctly. Crime is capable of generating capital. There have been plenty of poor people who have had the ability to lead others into helping them build a crime dynasty. To pin Vick as the sole reason a ring like this was capable of existing is to ignore hundreds of years of poor, stupid people running effective crime scenes.

 

[DBoys]

Vick is going to go down hard and he will never play football again. Falcons will probably cut him soon.

 

[silverbear]

No, you read it correctly. Crime is capable of generating capital. There have been plenty of poor people who have had the ability to lead others into helping them build a crime dynasty. To pin Vick as the sole reason a ring like this was capable of existing is to ignore hundreds of years of poor, stupid people running effective crime scenes.

Then I retract my apology... :laugh2:

For the record, I never said Vick was the sole reason this ring was "capable" of existing, I just said that it's pretty clear that he IS the money man making this ring go... I stand by that...

 

[superpunk]

Then I retract my apology... :laugh2:

For the record, I never said Vick was the sole reason this ring was "capable" of existing, I just said that it's pretty clear that he IS the money man making this ring go... I stand by that...

There was no reason to make that statement. Vick made this thing go. But it's not impossible that some moron with a dream could have made this thing work without Vick's money. It's going on all over the place. That's what I was responding to, that's what I was addressing. The notion that none of these morons could have made this thing work without Vick's money.

 

[burmafrd]

I think its pretty clear that if they WERE morons none of them could have made it go.

 

[silverbear]

There was no reason to make that statement. Vick made this thing go. But it's not impossible that some moron with a dream could have made this thing work without Vick's money. It's going on all over the place. That's what I was responding to, that's what I was addressing. The notion that none of these morons could have made this thing work without Vick's money.

Oh absolutely, but not on that scale... fewer dogs, a less fancy "headquarters"... a single wide trailer instead of a 750 thousand dollar house...

Likely a few old rusted out cars up on cinder blocks in the yard... and an old washing machine...

IOW, every other homestead in West Virginia!!!

 

[silverbear]

I think its pretty clear that if they WERE morons none of them could have made it go.

So, you're saying they're not morons??

You've got one guy who's making a jillion dollars, is quite famous, and he's about to piss it all away because his hobby is abusing animals for fun and profits... sure sounds like a moron to me, indeed the prince of all morons...

As Hollywood Henderson once said of Terry Bradshaw, Vick's so dumb he couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the c and the a... he couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the sole... he could screw up a one car funeral procession...

With any luck at all, when he dies, that's exactly what he'll get, too... a one car funeral procession... driven to the cemetery in the dog warden's pickup truck...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just wondering, did all u guys feel this way when Irvin, Newton, Eric Williams, Leon Lett, were always in trouble with the law.....not the vick case but in terms of everytime someone gets stopped by the law, alot of guys on this board calls them idoits off the top and say they should be banned for life......I'm just wondering if Ware or Romo were to get in trouble would the same guys feel the same way....

Yeah, I hated it. Nothing has changed there for me. Also, for the record, I also hated it when Carter was our QB and he was involved in things there were only going to lead to trouble. It's not a Mike Vike thing. It's a "Tired of the BS" thing in the NFL for me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, you read it correctly. Crime is capable of generating capital. There have been plenty of poor people who have had the ability to lead others into helping them build a crime dynasty. To pin Vick as the sole reason a ring like this was capable of existing is to ignore hundreds of years of poor, stupid people running effective crime scenes.

To run a dog ring, you have to have a significant amount of ready cash on had. Unlike other illegal activities, there are certain up front costs associated with it. You just can't start raising dogs and invite everybody over the the back yard on the weekends to have a match, so to speak. With out ready capitol, you can't run a large dog ring.