Coaching isn't a problem?

[Galian Beast]

When was the last time we had a truly productive rookie draft class?

A lot of teams with great success do so because they are able to bring their rookies along faster. Often this means they are role players. They are asked to fulfill a role, and they do just that. I keep feeling as though we don't play rookies at all unless we have no choice, because a starter is injured. And when this happen we expect them to do everything. This isn't conducive to success, especially since they haven't received much playing time or snaps in practice.

Something has got to change fundamentally in the way we bring rookies, 2nd and 3rd year players along on this team.

If you're drafted within the first 3 rounds, you're supposed to be seeing some significant playing time. 1st round draft picks are supposed to be starters, maybe even 2nd round draft picks. 3rd round draft picks? They should be getting some serious playing time.

Where was Tyrone Crawford this year? Wilber was a 4th round draft pick, but where was he? Matt Johnson has a lot to make up for due to his injuries, but I definitely think he should be given a shot to make a difference on this team. Same with Danny Coale.

I think a lot of that has do with being in 3-4. When you ask a college player to learn a completely new position, it's going to set their progress back significantly.

When you make players like Albright learn a new position, then switch them to another position, and then back... You aren't going to get much out of them. At least not early.

 

[batman36]

Some teams are reticent to play young players, or rookies, when they believe they are 'in the hunt.' I think because of Jerry's optimistic outlook, maybe the youngun's here don't play as much. And, yes, I am probably wrong about that.

 

[jjktkk]

Crawford had a solid year. Besides Claiborne, seems like the rest were held back by injuries, so hard to evaluate them.

 

[IAMKING]

Crawford had a solid year. Besides Claiborne, seems like the rest were held back by injuries, so hard to evaluate them.

No not excuses on why weren't productive. The question is when is the last time we had a truly productive class.

 

[xwalker]

When was the last time we had a truly productive rookie draft class?

A lot of teams with great success do so because they are able to bring their rookies along faster. Often this means they are role players. They are asked to fulfill a role, and they do just that. I keep feeling as though we don't play rookies at all unless we have no choice, because a starter is injured. And when this happen we expect them to do everything. This isn't conducive to success, especially since they haven't received much playing time or snaps in practice.

Something has got to change fundamentally in the way we bring rookies, 2nd and 3rd year players along on this team.

If you're drafted within the first 3 rounds, you're supposed to be seeing some significant playing time. 1st round draft picks are supposed to be starters, maybe even 2nd round draft picks. 3rd round draft picks? They should be getting some serious playing time.

Where was Tyrone Crawford this year? Wilber was a 4th round draft pick, but where was he? Matt Johnson has a lot to make up for due to his injuries, but I definitely think he should be given a shot to make a difference on this team. Same with Danny Coale.

I think a lot of that has do with being in 3-4. When you ask a college player to learn a completely new position, it's going to set their progress back significantly.

When you make players like Albright learn a new position, then switch them to another position, and then back... You aren't going to get much out of them. At least not early.

2010 R1 Dez Bryant
2010 R2 Sean Lee
2010 R3 No Pick

2011 R1 Tyron Smith
2011 R2 Bruce Carter
2011 R3 DeMarco Murray

2012 R1 Morris Claiborne
2012 R2 No Pick
2012 R3 Tyrone Crawford

Crawford played a significant number of snaps this season.

All of the others are starters.

Kyle Wilbur - He has 2 injuries but still played a small number of snaps.
Matt Johnson - Injured
Danny Coale - Injured

Alex Albright - His college position didn't exist in the Cowboys 3-4 scheme. He has become one of, if not the best special teams player on the team.

The biggest fail in the last 3 drafts has been David Arkin. His problem has been size/strength. The only thing the Coaches could do with him is slip him some Roids.

The biggest overall fail was the 2009 draft. That problem started with the Roy Williams trade which cost a 1st and 3rd. The 1st two picks were Jason Williams and Robert Brewster.

It turned out that Brewster was lazy and didn't enjoy football.

Jason Williams was very fast, but had rarely played any coverage in college due to the scheme. They referred to his college position as "stand-up lineman". You might be able to put some blame on the coaches for this player, but he has not developed into a starter in Carolina either despite 2012 being his 5th year in the NFL.

The area where I believe that Garrett has had the most positive influence on the team is in the evaluation of the Mental-Makeup of players. He has over-emphasized Right-Kind-of-Guy. He even hired an outside company that specializes in doing these types of evaluations. Better emphasis on the Mental-Makeup of draft picks would have prevented the drafting of Robert Brewster (lazy) and Jason Williams (intelligence/instincts), IMO.

.

 

[jjktkk]

No not excuses on why weren't productive. The question is when is the last time we had a truly productive class.

05, without question. I will say that I have been encouraged with the past couple of drafts though.

 

[Galian Beast]

2010 R1 Dez Bryant
2010 R2 Sean Lee
2010 R3 No Pick

2011 R1 Tyron Smith
2011 R2 Bruce Carter
2011 R3 DeMarco Murray

2012 R1 Morris Claiborne
2012 R2 No Pick
2012 R3 Tyrone Crawford

Crawford played a significant number of snaps this season.

All of the others are starters.

Kyle Wilbur - He has 2 injuries but still played a small number of snaps.
Matt Johnson - Injured
Danny Coale - Injured

Alex Albright - His college position didn't exist in the Cowboys 3-4 scheme. He has become one of, if not the best special teams player on the team.

The biggest fail in the last 3 drafts has been David Arkin. His problem has been size/strength. The only thing the Coaches could do with him is slip him some Roids.

The biggest overall fail was the 2009 draft. That problem started with the Roy Williams trade which cost a 1st and 3rd. The 1st two picks were Jason Williams and Robert Brewster.

It turned out that Brewster was lazy and didn't enjoy football.

Jason Williams was very fast, but had rarely played any coverage in college due to the scheme. They referred to his college position as "stand-up lineman". You might be able to put some blame on the coaches for this player, but he has not developed into a starter in Carolina either despite 2012 being his 5th year in the NFL.

The area where I believe that Garrett has had the most positive influence on the team is in the evaluation of the Mental-Makeup of players. He has over-emphasized Right-Kind-of-Guy. He even hired an outside company that specializes in doing these types of evaluations. Better emphasis on the Mental-Makeup of draft picks would have prevented the drafting of Robert Brewster (lazy) and Jason Williams (intelligence/instincts), IMO.

.

Only Smith and Claiborne were starters in their rookie years. We didn't get anything out of Sean Lee and Bruce Carter their rookie years. DeMarco Murray only became a starter because Felix Jones got hurt. How much did we use him during the games before he became a starter? Crawford also only got more snaps due to injuries.

The coaches need to find things that rookies can focus on, excel in, and use them towards that purpose while they gain understanding of the system and level of play in the nfl.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

The area where I believe that Garrett has had the most positive influence on the team is in the evaluation of the Mental-Makeup of players. He has over-emphasized Right-Kind-of-Guy. He even hired an outside company that specializes in doing these types of evaluations. .

.

So no Manti for the Boys?

 

[Eskimo]

Murray was injured all preseason and was just getting his feet warm in the regular season when Felix went down so it is hard to say what would have happened. You also have to remember that RBs who can block tend to make a quick progression to the pro game.

Lee played a fair bit as a rookie after the mid-way point once Garrett took over. His biggest problem was that he was playing behind two well regard vets at ILB and had a few injuries his rookie year.

Bruce Carter was just too far behind after missing all of TC, preseason and then the first six weeks of the regular season to really get in there and learn a new position as an ILB in a 3-4. I don't think you can blame him under the circumstances for not doing more in his rookie season.

IMO, most 2nd and 3rd rounders don't play a lot in their rookie seasons unless forced into action by injury. It is really the second and third years where they start to excel.

I do agree that we should try to do a better job of getting them to hit the ground running but this is a universal issue across the league. I do think under Wade we were incredibly slow about integrating rookie and 2nd year players but that may also be due to how bad we were drafting during the Wade years. If you remember Wade's players Carpenter (picked under BP) didn't start. Spencer didn't start until his 3rd year. Felix was a backup for 2.5 years. Jenkins didn't really start until the latter part of his first year. In 2010, Dez played #3 WR so that is a partial starter. So I think Garrett's coaches have been a fair bit quicker at getting the new players onto the field so there are signs of improvement.

 

[kirkjrk]

Some teams are reticent to play young players, or rookies, when they believe they are 'in the hunt.' I think because of Jerry's optimistic outlook, maybe the youngun's here don't play as much. And, yes, I am probably wrong about that.

Hanna should have gotten more playing time last year, and because of that he may start slow this coming year.

 

[jjktkk]

Hanna should have gotten more playing time last year, and because of that he may start slow this coming year.

Have to disagree. Hanna came on at the end of the season. His play towards the end of the season, should give him and the coaches the confidence that he can play a bigger role in the offense next season.

 

[Galian Beast]

Murray was injured all preseason and was just getting his feet warm in the regular season when Felix went down so it is hard to say what would have happened. You also have to remember that RBs who can block tend to make a quick progression to the pro game.

Lee played a fair bit as a rookie after the mid-way point once Garrett took over. His biggest problem was that he was playing behind two well regard vets at ILB and had a few injuries his rookie year.

Bruce Carter was just too far behind after missing all of TC, preseason and then the first six weeks of the regular season to really get in there and learn a new position as an ILB in a 3-4. I don't think you can blame him under the circumstances for not doing more in his rookie season.

IMO, most 2nd and 3rd rounders don't play a lot in their rookie seasons unless forced into action by injury. It is really the second and third years where they start to excel.

I do agree that we should try to do a better job of getting them to hit the ground running but this is a universal issue across the league. I do think under Wade we were incredibly slow about integrating rookie and 2nd year players but that may also be due to how bad we were drafting during the Wade years. If you remember Wade's players Carpenter (picked under BP) didn't start. Spencer didn't start until his 3rd year. Felix was a backup for 2.5 years. Jenkins didn't really start until the latter part of his first year. In 2010, Dez played #3 WR so that is a partial starter. So I think Garrett's coaches have been a fair bit quicker at getting the new players onto the field so there are signs of improvement.

I'm not blaming the players at all. And there is always an excuse. The common link is the coaching and schemes. It would be hard to prove, but I also think that playing in a position that you aren't familiar with also leads to more injuries.

It's time to stop drafting players to be what we want them to be, and start drafting them for what they are. This conversion mentality just doesn't work at an acceptable rate.

You have 3-4 years with a young developing player. We waste all that time trying to fit them to our system, rather than fitting our system to them. They either bust or by the time they are good they go play elsewhere in the NFL. Kevin Burnett, Chris Canty, Stephen Bowen. Or the players we just give up on like Antonio Bryant, Danny Amendola or Erik Walden.

We get these new journeymen year after year rather than try to put together a proper farm system. Is every player going to be successful? Obviously not. All I'm saying is try to put these guys in situations where they can be successful.

Why did Joey Galloway go on to have great years in Tampa Bay? The reality is we put emphasis in the wrong areas. A wide receiver isn't doing well, must be their fault. Well, hold on a second, why don't we look at the QB passing to them? Their offensive line? The scheme?

How many people wanted to run Dez Bryant out of town earlier this year?

 

[big dog cowboy]

Where was Tyrone Crawford this year? Wilber was a 4th round draft pick, but where was he?

Crawford - Do you watch our games?

Wilbur - Did you follow his injury situation?

 

[Galian Beast]

Crawford - Do you watch our games?

Wilbur - Did you follow his injury situation?

Crawford got more playing time because of injuries on the defensive line, but in my opinion it was too little too late.

Wilbur, I did follow the injury situation. Which goes to my point. When a player has to learn a new position, what happens when they get injured and miss a lot of time? They have ZERO room for error. You don't learn this new position, and you aren't going to play at all. There goes a 4th round draft pick.

You put him at a position that he already knows and for the most part he can come from an injury and still produce in certain situations. That's the folly of forcing systems on to players, and coaches not finding out how to use them.

 

[theogt]

Crawford had a solid year. Besides Claiborne, seems like the rest were held back by injuries, so hard to evaluate them.

Agree with this.

Claiborne - Started all year. Met expectations.
Crawford - Contributed significantly. Met expectations.
Wilber - Special teamer. I guess that meets expectations.
Johnson - Hurt.
Coale - Hurt.
Hanna - Contributed. Hugely exceeded expectations.
McSurdy - Hurt.

So, basically, Wilber is what is being complained about? I never liked the pick in the first place, but it's hardly a reason to complain that the coaching staff isn't properly using draft picks.

 

[Galian Beast]

Agree with this.

Claiborne - Started all year. Met expectations.
Crawford - Contributed significantly. Met expectations.
Wilber - Special teamer. I guess that meets expectations.
Johnson - Hurt.
Coale - Hurt.
Hanna - Contributed. Hugely exceeded expectations.
McSurdy - Hurt.

So, basically, Wilber is what is being complained about? I never liked the pick in the first place, but it's hardly a reason to complain that the coaching staff isn't properly using draft picks.

This isn't just about one draft class... Tell me the last year where we had a draft class that was immediately productive.

 

[theogt]

Crawford got more playing time because of injuries on the defensive line, but in my opinion it was too little too late.

Wilbur, I did follow the injury situation. Which goes to my point. When a player has to learn a new position, what happens when they get injured and miss a lot of time? They have ZERO room for error. You don't learn this new position, and you aren't going to play at all. There goes a 4th round draft pick.

You put him at a position that he already knows and for the most part he can come from an injury and still produce in certain situations. That's the folly of forcing systems on to players, and coaches not finding out how to use them.

Over the first half of the season, Crawford played about 1/4 of the defensive snaps. Over the last half of the season, Crawford played about 1/3 of the defensive snaps. That's about what you'd expect out of any backup player. As starters get worn down or injured, the backup gets more playing time.

In all, he played about 30% of defensive snaps. Not bad for a 3rd round pick.

 

[Rynie]

Our rookies will contribute more when we stop drafting injured rookies.

 

[theogt]

This isn't just about one draft class... Tell me the last year where we had a draft class that was immediately productive.

Prior to 2012?

2011. A couple guys from that class were productive as rookies, and Carter -- who had a rookie redshirt year -- looks like he'll be a potential pro bowler for his career.

 

[Zordon]

Our rookies will contribute more when we stop drafting injured rookies.

yeah but they were RKG captains in college. doesn't that count for anything?