Coaching isn't a problem?

[Galian Beast]

Prior to 2012?

2011. A couple guys from that class were productive as rookies, and Carter -- who had a rookie redshirt year -- looks like he'll be a potential pro bowler for his career.

You're purposefully ignoring the point.

2011?

Tyron Smith and DeMarco Murray

who else even played in 2011?

Nagy might have played a bit... certainly not a successful year for our rookies.

 

[Gameover]

quarterbacking is the problem...

 

[theogt]

You're purposefully ignoring the point.

2011?

Tyron Smith and DeMarco Murray

who else even played in 2011?

Nagy might have played a bit... certainly not a successful year for our rookies.

Yes, two out of the top 3 picks contributed significantly. The other didn't play. Why was that? Because of the coaching staff? No, because of his injury history.

How far back in our draft history do you have to go for your point to be valid?

It's not hard to criticize this coaching staff. Regardless, this isn't a valid critique.

 

[perrykemp]

2011?

Tyron Smith and DeMarco Murray

who else even played in 2011?

And let's be honest for a 2nd here -- Tyron Smith was, at best, an average LT in the NFL this year. Nothing more.

Demarco Murray 661 yards rushing and 4.1 ypc is the very definition of mediocre. Yes, his OL wasn't great, however, he is having trouble staying on the field.

If those two players are the sterling examples of how Dallas has turned around their draft fortunes, it explains the total acceptance of mediocrity that has crept into the fanbase as well as the front-office.

 

[Gameover]

If I could trade (Tony) Romo, I would" - NFL analyst and depressed Dallas Cowboys fan @TheMarkHenry

 

[Echo9]

This isn't just about one draft class... Tell me the last year where we had a draft class that was immediately productive.

Take a look at the rest of the league and find a team that had a draft that meets your criteria. They may exist.

Seems you are asking for day one above average starters out of the first 2 rounds and some impactful contribution from rounds 3-4 in the first year? As a 3rd rounder Crawford met that criteria and Claiborne certainly did.

The concept of most or all draft picks grabbing starting or significant roles IN YEAR ONE seems flawed to me.

In2010 an 2011 we went with a philosophy in the 2nd round to grab a guy with huge upside that would have to red shirt for a year. In exchange for basically losing a year, we got two 1st round talents in Lee and Carter. According to your argument, these were bad picks, right?

 

[Rynie]

yeah but they were RKG captains in college. doesn't that count for anything?

I guess putting on ice-cream socials is more important than actually playing and contributing. Good thing I'm not a GM, Huh?

 

[xwalker]

You're purposefully ignoring the point.

2011?

Tyron Smith and DeMarco Murray

who else even played in 2011?

Nagy might have played a bit... certainly not a successful year for our rookies.

Your argument just does not make sense. You could say that the team should have drafted better players (i.e. Arkin in the 4th), but to say that the coaches are at fault is odd.

1 Tyron Smith - 16 game starter
2 Bruce Carter - Injured
3 DeMarco Murray - Significant contributor.
4 David Arkin - Not strong enough.
5 Josh Thomas - They tried to get him through waivers but failed.
6 Dwayne Harris - 6th round pick that contributed significantly in 2012.
7 Shaun Chapas - Is this really the coaches fault?
7 Bill Nagy - Started until he got injured. Cutting him instead of waiting and putting him on IR was dumb. This is either a Front Office or Head Coach decision. The OL coach wanted to keep him.

If I were going to blame any coaches for anything player related, it would be Garrett for not playing Parnell more earlier in the 2012 season. It was reported that Callahan had to convince him to have Parnell share snaps with Free later in the season.

If the coaches are at fault in player development, you need to find better examples.

 

[Galian Beast]

Your argument just does not make sense. You could say that the team should have drafted better players (i.e. Arkin in the 4th), but to say that the coaches are at fault is odd.

1 Tyron Smith - 16 game starter
2 Bruce Carter - Injured
3 DeMarco Murray - Significant contributor.
4 David Arkin - Not strong enough.
5 Josh Thomas - They tried to get him through waivers but failed.
6 Dwayne Harris - 6th round pick that contributed significantly in 2012.
7 Shaun Chapas - Is this really the coaches fault?
7 Bill Nagy - Started until he got injured. Cutting him instead of waiting and putting him on IR was dumb. This is either a Front Office or Head Coach decision. The OL coach wanted to keep him.

If I were going to blame any coaches for anything player related, it would be Garrett for not playing Parnell more earlier in the 2012 season. It was reported that Callahan had to convince him to have Parnell share snaps with Free later in the season.

If the coaches are at fault in player development, you need to find better examples.

Bruce Carter wasn't injured, and I'm waiting on your analysis of past draft classes as well. And again I'm asking for their contribution as rookies, not just overall on the team. How many games did nagy start? Where is he now? Why was he cut rather than retained?

This all is central to my point.

 

[jjktkk]

I guess putting on ice-cream socials is more important than actually playing and contributing. Good thing I'm not a GM, Huh?

Probably so. Heck, it wouldn't even hurt you to bone up on being a knowledgeable Cowboys fan either, if you choose to do so.

 

[Eskimo]

Yes, Carter was injured and placed on the PUP list before TC started and stayed there until week 6 or so of the regular season.

 

[T-RO]

Our rookies will contribute more when we stop drafting injured rookies.

This. And when we stop drafting scrubs. GB, I don't see your point AT ALL.

Have you named one player that the *coaches* really held back...who later turned out to be some stud. It there anyone meaningful that you name?

Wilber? I doubt he's much of a player. He sure didn't flash much in ST, where he did have opportunities.

 

[Galian Beast]

Yes, Carter was injured and placed on the PUP list before TC started and stayed there until week 6 or so of the regular season.

I realize, my point is he didn't miss the entire season. I should have been clear. Yet why wasn't Carter able to produce when he was cleared? Because he had to adapt to a new system, and was lost in the sauce.

 

[T-RO]

I realize, my point is he didn't miss the entire season. I should have been clear. Yet why wasn't Carter able to produce when he was cleared? Because he had to adapt to a new system, and was lost in the sauce.

GB...don't you get it?

When a rookie comes in and can't get the reps in during camp...you can forget about it. He's not going to be able to have much of a role.

The reason we were able to draft Carter when we did was that it was widely known his rookie season would be of the "red-shirt" variety.

As everyone is trying to tell you: not a coaching issue. It's a GM issue.

 

[Galian Beast]

GB...don't you get it?

When a rookie comes in and can't get the reps in during camp...you can forget about it. He's not going to be able to have much of a role.

The reason we were able to draft Carter when we did was that it was widely known his rookie season would be of the "red-shirt" variety.

As everyone is trying to tell you: not a coaching issue. It's a GM issue.

My point was that an injured player can still com along if it's a scheme they are familiar with. If they have to learn a new position, they are even further behind the curve.

Running the 3-4 did this, running Ryan's complex version of it certainly didn't make things easy.

Teams across the league plug guys in, and it's because coaches adapt to injury situations. They don't just try to do the same thing with different guys.

 

[Rynie]

Probably so. Heck, it wouldn't even hurt you to bone up on being a knowledgeable Cowboys fan either, if you choose to do so.

Hey look guys! I have a new fan! Umad Bro?

 

[ShiningStar]

When was the last time we had a truly productive rookie draft class?

A lot of teams with great success do so because they are able to bring their rookies along faster. Often this means they are role players. They are asked to fulfill a role, and they do just that. I keep feeling as though we don't play rookies at all unless we have no choice, because a starter is injured. And when this happen we expect them to do everything. This isn't conducive to success, especially since they haven't received much playing time or snaps in practice.

Something has got to change fundamentally in the way we bring rookies, 2nd and 3rd year players along on this team.

If you're drafted within the first 3 rounds, you're supposed to be seeing some significant playing time. 1st round draft picks are supposed to be starters, maybe even 2nd round draft picks. 3rd round draft picks? They should be getting some serious playing time.

Where was Tyrone Crawford this year? Wilber was a 4th round draft pick, but where was he? Matt Johnson has a lot to make up for due to his injuries, but I definitely think he should be given a shot to make a difference on this team. Same with Danny Coale.

I think a lot of that has do with being in 3-4. When you ask a college player to learn a completely new position, it's going to set their progress back significantly.

When you make players like Albright learn a new position, then switch them to another position, and then back... You aren't going to get much out of them. At least not early.

how many teams have a very good draft class? forget what you read and think about how the teams have used them.

it has been a coaching problem and right now I think we got rid of one coach who was not coaching well, Joe D. Can we defend the play of the ST? i really dont think there is a defense.

Were all the coaches who were let go needed to go? Probably not, but so far i like the new coaches we brought in.

OUr drafts have been better, and i dont expect a home run with ever pick. A few we all know which year is better left unsaid.

Thread, not really needed, coaching has been a problem. ALl of hte problems, no, a lot that oculd have had different outcomes, yes, defense, dont bother arguing, pro Ryan or Anti Ryan, hes gone now, wont matter.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

No not excuses on why weren't productive. The question is when is the last time we had a truly productive class.

Most productive rookie classes are on terrible teams. Then when the team gets less terrible, those rookies don't do anything in the league because they were not all that great to begin with, just better than the veterans on a terrible team.

That's why people tend to use the 3-year rule. Otherwise you would be criticizing drafting somebody like Sean Lee or Troy Polamalu, who weren't productive their rookie years.






YR

 

[CATCH17]

We are snake bit with Rookies and them getting injured.

If Dallas drafts you then you will get hurt. It's just how it is.

 

[Echo9]

My point was that an injured player can still com along if it's a scheme they are familiar with. If they have to learn a new position, they are even further behind the curve.

Running the 3-4 did this, running Ryan's complex version of it certainly didn't make things easy.

Teams across the league plug guys in, and it's because coaches adapt to injury situations. They don't just try to do the same thing with different guys.

Your point is wrong. What other rookie pick from rnds 2-7 did not practice once with the team until half way through the season, then ended up having an impact beyond special teams?

This concept of a whole draft class full of starters and high impact contributors in year one is a joke. The NFL does not work that way.