Comparing D-lines between Bears & Boys

[MichaelWinicki]

Last offseason, there were several folks that applauded the speed of the Chicago Bears at rebuilding their defensive line. While the Cowboys signed Mincey and McClain (and were mocked for it) the Bears were signing Willie Young, Lamarr Houston and Jared Allen– and many kudos there thrown the Bears' way. It was more than strongly suggested the Bears knew what they were doing and the Cowboys didn't.

Today Ditka called this Bear's defense the worst he had ever seen. It's also the first defense to allow 50+ points in back to back games since 1923.

 

[cowboys69fan]

The proof is really in the results/records/stats, but we'll get a true measure of the diff in caliber in after few weeks, I think we'll expose that defense further...yup the media or analyst always get it wrong...

 

[EPL0c0]

I was reading Ditka's comments and started looking at the differences too. A big difference I see is the quality of depth. Dallas loses less w/ their rotation, Chicago likely has to leave starters out there for more snaps

Listed starters (per ESPN.com): CHI vs DAL
LDE: Willie Young -vs- George Selvie
LDT: Jay Ratliff -vs- Nick Hayden
RDT: Stephen Paea -vs- Tyrone Crawford
RDE: Jared Allen -vs- Jeremy Mincy

But looking at the depth:
LDE: ? -vs- Anthony Spencer
LDT: Will Sutton -vs- Terrell McClain/Josh Brent
RDT: Ego Ferguson -vs- Henry Melton
RDE: Trevor Scott -vs- Demarcus Lawrence.

Still amazes me how DT was such a horrible position last year w/ guys coming in off the street almost weekly... and this year, it is probably Dallas' deepest position behind RB.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I was reading Ditka's comments and started looking at the differences too. A big difference I see is the quality of depth. Dallas loses less w/ their rotation, Chicago likely has to leave starters out there for more snaps

Listed starters (per ESPN.com): CHI vs DAL
LDE: Willie Young -vs- George Selvie
LDT: Jay Ratliff -vs- Nick Hayden
RDT: Stephen Paea -vs- Tyrone Crawford
RDE: Jared Allen -vs- Jeremy Mincy

But looking at the depth:
LDE: ? -vs- Anthony Spencer
LDT: Will Sutton -vs- Terrell McClain/Josh Brent
RDT: Ego Ferguson -vs- Henry Melton
RDE: Trevor Scott -vs- Demarcus Lawrence.

Still amazes me how DT was such a horrible position last year w/ guys coming in off the street almost weekly... and this year, it is probably Dallas' deepest position behind RB.

You don't have Houston in there.

But regardless the only guy on the Chicago d-line that's playing well is Ratliff. Everyone else has either been lousy (Allen) or not much of an impact (Houston, Young).

 

[WoodysGirl]

There have been calls for d-coordinator's job, too.

But what's really the issue in Chicago is their stalled offense. Marshall's ankle sprain shouldn't be the reason why the offense has pretty much come to a screeching halt.

That said, I don't know that it's fair comparing just d-lines. Overall, they should have the better defense, but something just isn't clicking for them.

 

[cowboys1981]

They have a coach noone wants to play for and we have one that players go all out for week in and out.

 

[Doomsay]

I'm thinking they stay terrible through December 4th, I want a victory in exchange for freezing my *** of at the game. We should have won last year, hopefully we gash that defensive front and send Jay back into therapy.

 

[BlindFaith]

You don't have Houston in there.

But regardless the only guy on the Chicago d-line that's playing well is Ratliff. Everyone else has either been lousy (Allen) or not much of an impact (Houston, Young).

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.
Guys like DJ Williams, Jon Bostic are barely in the top 100 for tackles

 

[Doomsday101]

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.

and Chicago is dead last in points allowed 30 per game. This game is not about yards per play it is points. no one ever got points on score board based on some yardage.

Cowboys are 9th in the NFL in points allowed.

 

[cowboys2233]

You don't have Houston in there.

But regardless the only guy on the Chicago d-line that's playing well is Ratliff. Everyone else has either been lousy (Allen) or not much of an impact (Houston, Young).

Good, glad to hear Ratliff is playing well. Even more glad to hear his effort isn't making a bit of difference and Ratliff will get to sit at home watching the Cowboys in the playoffs. LOL.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.
Guys like DJ Williams, Jon Bostic are barely in the top 100 for tackles

Where are those tackles made?

 

[kramskoi]

Last offseason, there were several folks that applauded the speed of the Chicago Bears at rebuilding their defensive line. While the Cowboys signed Mincey and McClain (and were mocked for it) the Bears were signing Willie Young, Lamarr Houston and Jared Allen– and many kudos there thrown the Bears' way. It was more than strongly suggested the Bears knew what they were doing and the Cowboys didn't.

Today Ditka called this Bear's defense the worst he had ever seen. It's also the first defense to allow 50+ points in back to back games since 1923.

Man I would not be comparing anything of the Cowboys with the Bears...a team that is playing some pretty funky football of late. The taint might be contagious from such a comparison!

 

[gimmesix]

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.
Guys like DJ Williams, Jon Bostic are barely in the top 100 for tackles

The offense's ability to keep the defense off the field helps Dallas tremendously. The defense is obviously improved, but time of possession both lowers Dallas' tackle numbers and the opportunity teams have to score against us.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Man I would not be comparing anything of the Cowboys with the Bears...a team that is playing some pretty funky football of late. The taint might be contagious from such a comparison!

I was only making the comparison because of A. The Ditka article and B. How some folks went ga-ga over the defensive linemen the Bears signed during free agency. One person here posted "That's how you remake your defensive line in one offseason".

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Here's how Pro Football Focus compares the top 7 d-linemen for each team:

Chicago-
Allen -4.2
Houston 0.9
Peca 0.9
Young 2.4
Sutton -4.6
Ratliff 9.8
Ferguson 0.4

Dallas-
Mincey 9.3
Crawford 15.1
Hayden -12.9
Selvie 0.2
Melton 12.3
Spencer 4.3
McClain 0.8

 

[perrykemp]

Bears defense has been horrible in general, however, they've only been truly blown out in their 3 games against Green Bay (2 games) and New England (1 game) who on average scored 48 points a game against them.

From the looks of it it was a combination of lack of pass rush and poor secondary play against two HOF-calibre QBs that was the most damaging. Neither GB or NE ran it all that effectively.

My $0.02 is the new passing rules are only amplifying the ability of players like Rodgers / Brady / Manning to put historic numbers against teams that can't get a pass rush on them.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.
Guys like DJ Williams, Jon Bostic are barely in the top 100 for tackles

Thanks for the research and comparison on the DLs. But, there is no way I would trade straight up our DL (starters and backups) for the Bears DL (starters and backups). No way! Don't care what the numbers show.

 

[jobberone]

Last offseason, there were several folks that applauded the speed of the Chicago Bears at rebuilding their defensive line. While the Cowboys signed Mincey and McClain (and were mocked for it) the Bears were signing Willie Young, Lamarr Houston and Jared Allen– and many kudos there thrown the Bears' way. It was more than strongly suggested the Bears knew what they were doing and the Cowboys didn't.

Today Ditka called this Bear's defense the worst he had ever seen. It's also the first defense to allow 50+ points in back to back games since 1923.

LOL. It's so easy to pooh pooh on most everything then shout Eureka. Harder to look at things in a more balanced way and find the nuggets of truth here and there.

 

[zack]

Last offseason, there were several folks that applauded the speed of the Chicago Bears at rebuilding their defensive line. While the Cowboys signed Mincey and McClain (and were mocked for it) the Bears were signing Willie Young, Lamarr Houston and Jared Allen– and many kudos there thrown the Bears' way. It was more than strongly suggested the Bears knew what they were doing and the Cowboys didn't.

Today Ditka called this Bear's defense the worst he had ever seen. It's also the first defense to allow 50+ points in back to back games since 1923.

We owe the Bears for last season. I hope that we light them up....badly....

 

[calicowboy54]

Willie Young 33 comb tackles 7 sacks ------------- George Selvie 20 comb tackles 1 sack
Jared Allen 32 comb tackles 1.5 sacks ------------ Jeremy Mincey 18 comb tackles 2 sacks
Jeremiah Ratliff 22 comb tackles 3.5 sacks ------ Nick Hayden 24 comb tackles 0 sacks
Stephen Paea 17 comb tackles 4 sacks ---------- Tyrone Crawford 20 comb tackles 0 sacks
Ego Ferguson 16 comb tackles 2 sacks ---------- Henry Melton 11 comb tackles 5 sacks
Will Sutton 16 comb tackles 0 sacks -------------- Terrell McClain 11 comb tackles 0 sacks
Lamarr Houston 11 comb tackles 1 sack -------- Anthony Spencer 16 comb tackles .5 sacks
Cornelius Washington 3 comb tackles 0 sacks - Demarcus Lawrence 4 comb tackles 0 sacks

Yards per rush:
Dallas 26th 4.4
Chi 17th 4.2

Sacks per game
Dallas 26th 1.6
Chi 17th 2.2

So tell me again which defensive line looks better or worse? If Allen has been lousy, what has Mincey been?

I'd look at the secondary/linebackers as being the bigger issue in Chicago.
Guys like DJ Williams, Jon Bostic are barely in the top 100 for tackles

i agree i believe our backend has been saving our front 4's butts all year. if we can upgrade both DE spots and 1 corner we are going to be golden. Question is are there any upgrades available in the draft and FA this year at those positions.