Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

[DogFace]

If he became a receiver then he was not going to the ground per the rule. You are either considered going to the ground or you aren't.

So then you agree with Blandino's sentence that Thomas was not going to the ground in the act of completing the catch process, right? I mean if he was a runner and all. Right?

Blandino’s first line of the video:
“Calvin is going to the ground in the process of making the catch”

 

[DogFace]

Twisting you say? The Blandino video is a video on "the catch process," not solely a going to the ground video or how to get out of going to the ground. He says so at the top of his intro. Go back and watch. He explains the 3-part process and then explains the going to the ground rule. The 3-part rule is for a receiver who catches a ball while on his feet, like Thomas did. The going to the ground rule is a different rule with a different set of requirements if you get that tag slapped on you. Blandino clearly stated that tag was slapped on Johnson and described why Johnson's play was considered incomplete. Nothing more. All these other conclusions or "it must mean that ..." nonsense is an attempt to fill in details that weren't there. Yeah, twisting is what you said right?

You also mentioned avoidance but didn't answer my question. You agree with Blandino when he says that Thomas wasn't going to the ground in completing the catch process, right?

Twisting you say? The Blandino video is a video on "the catch process," not solely a going to the ground video or how to get out of going to the ground. He says so at the top of his intro. Go back and watch. He explains the 3-part process and then explains the going to the ground rule. The 3-part rule is for a receiver who catches a ball while on his feet, like Thomas did. The going to the ground rule is a different rule with a different set of requirements if you get that tag slapped on you. Blandino clearly stated that tag was slapped on Johnson and described why Johnson's play was considered incomplete. Nothing more. All these other conclusions or "it must mean that ..." nonsense is an attempt to fill in details that weren't there. Yeah, twisting is what you said right?

You also mentioned avoidance but didn't answer my question. You agree with Blandino when he says that Thomas wasn't going to the ground in completing the catch process, right?

No. He says Calvin’s play would’ve been a completion had he gotten two feet down prior to the reach.

This video is killing your argument. At least you’re trying to face that now. In your own way of course.

 

[DogFace]

These are the videos that proved you all wrong. None of you have really attempted to dispute what he says.
@MarcusRock has cleverly avoided it completely after I corrected him earlier.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-netwo...00000246515/Calvin-Johnson-rule-strikes-again

 

[Kevinicus]

Just in case.
https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

Part 2 outlines what contact is restricted. It does not prohibit any hitting at all.

Are you suggesting Shields commited a penalty on Dez?

 

[MarcusRock]

I've always liked that line from Gladiator:

"People should know when they're conquered."

 

[OmerV]

It's hilarious how you describe football moves all over the place, but deny that they took place at the same time.

Your definition of "football move" is pretty darn liberal. I described jumping and reaching for a ball and stumbling to the ground. One is before he even catches it, and the other is part of the act of falling. But maybe you think the fact he was on the field at all, or ran a route to begin with was what is meant by a "football move"

 

[BlindFaith]

Part 2 outlines what contact is restricted. It does not prohibit any hitting at all.

Are you suggesting Shields commited a penalty on Dez?

I'm done talking Dez. We are trying to have a rational discussion on how to improve the rule.

 

[Kevinicus]

I'm done talking Dez. We are trying to have a rational discussion on how to improve the rule.

You seem to say, "I'm done" a lot when things don't go well.

Ignoring Dez for a moment, it still appears you have an incorrect interpretation of another rule.

 

[blindzebra]

I've always liked that line from Gladiator:

"People should know when they're conquered."

Yes you should.

 

[DogFace]

I've always liked that line from Gladiator:

"People should know when they're conquered."

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-netwo...00000246515/Calvin-Johnson-rule-strikes-again

Exactly

 

[DogFace]

I'm done talking Dez. We are trying to have a rational discussion on how to improve the rule.

Yes kjj you said that like 10 pages ago.

We know you’re done.

 

[blindzebra]

Your definition of "football move" is pretty darn liberal. I described jumping and reaching for a ball and stumbling to the ground. One is before he even catches it, and the other is part of the act of falling. But maybe you think the fact he was on the field at all, or ran a route to begin with was what is meant by a "football move"

Moving the ball to the hand nearer the goal line is part of falling? Pushing off his left leg and extending out is part of falling?

 

[BlindFaith]

These are the videos that proved you all wrong. None of you have really attempted to dispute what he says.
@MarcusRock has cleverly avoided it completely after I corrected him earlier.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-netwo...00000246515/Calvin-Johnson-rule-strikes-again

Here, since you insist on comparing and discussing a catch from 2013 where the rules are different, I give you this:

A.R. 8.10 GOING TO THE GROUND—INCOMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. The contact by B1 sends him across the goal line and to the ground in the end zone. The ball comes out as he hits the ground.
Ruling: Second-and-10 on B25. The pass is incomplete, as the receiver went to the ground in the process of making the catch and did not maintain possession of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.

A.R. 8.11 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on A30. A1 throws a pass to A2 at the A45 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. The contact by B1 causes A2 to go to the ground where he maintains control of the ball.
Ruling: First-and-10 on A45. The pass is complete, as the receiver went to the ground in the process of making the catch and maintained possession of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground.

A.R. 8.12 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who controls the ball and gets one foot down before he is contacted by B1. He goes to the ground as a result of the contact, gets his second foot down, and with the ball in his right arm, he braces himself at the three-yard line with his left hand and simultaneously lunges forward toward the goal line. When he lands in the end zone, the ball comes out.
Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The pass is complete. When the receiver hits the ground in the end zone, it is the result of lunging forward after bracing himself at the three-yard line and is not part of the process of the catch. Since the ball crossed the goal line, it is a touchdown. If the ball is short of the goal line, it is a catch, and A2 is down by contact.

A.R. 8.13 GOING TO THE GROUND—COMPLETE PASS First-and-10-on B25. A1 throws a pass to A2 who is contacted by a defender before he completes the catch at the three-yard line. Despite B2’s contact, A2 keeps his balance, gets both feet down, and lunges over the goal line. The ball comes out as he hits the ground.
Ruling: Touchdown Team A. Kickoff A35. The receiver went to the ground as the result of lunging for the goal line, not in the process of making the catch.


And, there is no mention of your precious AR 15 case play in the 2013 case play book. The only case play you ever reference in trying to establish Dez caught the ball. So the 2013 rules are clearly enforced differently and with even less gray area.

But as you can see above, the case plays that are in there are actually the same case plays that are in the 2014 version and 2015 version. And guess what, they say BRACE + LUNGE and BALANCE + LUNGE.

Again, I can't speak for Blandino, and I never want to. But, you can see in 8.13 where it says, gets both feet down. This is clearly what he is trying to communicate in his explanation. What he leaves off is the most critical part of the explanation. KEEPS HIS BALANCE, gets both feet down, AND LUNGES.

That is the best I can do. And can we please stop comparing catches from different rule books. I know you're hanging on by a thread here in trying to come up with justifications for it being a catch, but can we please stop?

And if you want to compare catches to 2007 or 1998, please do your homework and look up the rules before throwing out accusations. It's only fair that we don't have to do all the work all the time to keep you guys straight.

 

[DFWJC]

I'm becoming more and more curious if the loudest Dez' was not a catch" crowd are also either anti-Romo or anti-Dez guys as well.
Just a random curiosity.

 

[BlindFaith]

You seem to say, "I'm done" a lot when things don't go well.

Ignoring Dez for a moment, it still appears you have an incorrect interpretation of another rule.

Please, explain how I've interpreted the rule wrong.

 

[BlindFaith]

You seem to say, "I'm done" a lot when things don't go well.

Ignoring Dez for a moment, it still appears you have an incorrect interpretation of another rule.

Not going well? We've disproved every point, as random and incoherent as they are. I don't have to prove anything. The NFL has already ruled. No catch. And if you believe it was a catch, then you are part of the conspiracy crowd.

We're just trying to keep some sanity here for those who actually want to know how the rule works. I don't care what you think. And the reason I keep coming back is because you guys keep throwing in even more ridiculous things. I'm now trying to explain catches that happened in 2013 with different rules to the Dez catch. It's insane what lengths you guys will go to.

 

[MarcusRock]

Not going well? We've disproved every point, as random and incoherent as they are. I don't have to prove anything. The NFL has already ruled. No catch. And if you believe it was a catch, then you are part of the conspiracy crowd.

We're just trying to keep some sanity here for those who actually want to know how the rule works. I don't care what you think. And the reason I keep coming back is because you guys keep throwing in even more ridiculous things. I'm now trying to explain catches that happened in 2013 with different rules to the Dez catch. It's insane what lengths you guys will go to.

The dragon's head is already severed but the support team are still trying to flail the body around pretending it's still alive. I say leave them to it.

 

[Kevinicus]

Please, explain how I've interpreted the rule wrong.

You said they can't be hit at all. That's not true. They can't be hit in certain ways (to the head/neck, spearing, etc.) but it does not eliminate any and all hits. You absolutely can throw a shoulder into the gut of a receiver as they are trying to catch a pass (assuming you don't get their too early to cause Pass Interference). The same rules apply to a QB throwing a pass, and other situations where they are considered "defenseless."

Did you read the entire thing you linked to?

1. Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
   1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenselessplayer by encircling or grasping him
   2. lowering the head and making forcible contact with the crown or ”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenselessplayer’s body
   3. illegally launching into a defenseless opponent. It is an illegal launch if a player (i) leaves both feet prior to contact to spring forward and upward into his opponent, and (ii) uses any part of his helmet to initiate forcible contact against any part of his opponent’s body. (This does not apply to contact against a runner, unless the runner is still considered to be a defenselessplayer, as defined in Article 7.)

Note 1: The provisions of (b) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or helmet in the course of a conventional tackle or block on an opponent.

Note 2: A player who initiates contact against a defenseless opponent is responsible for avoiding an illegal act. This includes illegal contact that may occur during the process of attempting to dislodge the ball from an opponent. A standard of strict liability applies for any contact against a defenseless opponent, even if the opponent is an airborne player who is returning to the ground or whose body position is otherwise in motion, and irrespective of any acts by the defenseless opponent, such as ducking his head or curling up his body in anticipation of contact.

Contact and hitting is clearly allowed, but certain types of contact and locations must be avoided. This is very straight forward.

 

[Rockport]

I've always liked that line from Gladiator:

"People should know when they're conquered."

No offense but that's a line for losers.

 

[OmerV]

Moving the ball to the hand nearer the goal line is part of falling? Pushing off his left leg and extending out is part of falling?

We were talking about things that affected how the players fell to the ground, not the reach at the end, so your comment is out of context. As for the reach, we've covered that a hundred times, so no need to go back into it.