Coples

[InmanRoshi]

All this, and I think a no nonsense coach like Red and high motor guys like Ware and Ratliff will all be good influence on this kid and bring out all the potential.

Our coaches can coach up that underachiever = famous last words of a fool.

 

[SDogo]

All this, and I think a no nonsense coach like Red and high motor guys like Ware and Ratliff will all be good influence on this kid and bring out all the potential.

Never worked with Bennett.

 

[Dough Boy]

Our coaches can coach up that underachiever = famous last words of a fool.

so true.

 

[Dough Boy]

Never worked with Bennett.

No it didn't. You can't coach or teach effort. Michael Jordan's quote, "I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.".

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I have made this argument before on other message boards, but Poe's issue is not lack of effort. A lot of it is pure lack of technique. He is exceptionally raw. He will often dip his shoulder and drive into gaps, trying to get skinny and blow by the blocker. I cannot understand why, in 3 years of coaching, they never taught him to use the raw power he possess. I mean, if you do not use your hands, how can you possibly translate that power to the field?

I don't claim to have any knowledge about what Poe's attitude is really like, but Broaddus has said the exact same thing after watching tape of him. He said it's not so much that his effort is bad, but that his technique is terrible. He said he just tried to lower his shoulder and run over people or through gaps and showed next to zero knowledge of how to use his hands.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Our coaches can coach up that underachiever = famous last words of a fool.

Well... Yeah.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree with some of what your saying to a point but a lot of what goes into trying to determine what kind of player you will have at the next level goes into finding out what the people who have worked with him back to even his highschool days think of the prospect.

Poe has been labeled as "lazy", "sloppy", "unmotivated", "hard to coach" and as one of his own team mates told a scout, "you need to keep your foot on his throat".

Maybe it's a deep combination of both but you have to look at the resolve of the prospect and figure out even with the right coaching will he use it and accept it.

If Poe's "lazy", "sloppy", "unmotivated" and "hard to coach" now, just think how he's going to be after he's given a nice chuck of change to put in the bank.

 

[DFWJC]

Never worked with Bennett.

No offense SD, but I don't think he's anything like Bennett.

Let's all check back in a year or two from now see how he's doing.

I'm not advocating getting him, only b/c I'm not sure of the fit.
But Coples is going to be very, very good.

 

[Tobal]

I think Poe and Coples are completely different. Now I had not heard the "he is hard to coach" angle and that's something I don't want to hear.

Casserly and Mayock say Poe has a good motor, I can work with other issues, but super talent with motor isworth a gamble to me as a last resort type of thing.

A player with questionable motor is a guy I just don't want to touch. It's like when they say a QB has accuracy issues. It's a nail in the coffin to me.

Now Poe isn't my first choice, but i won't be pissed if they take him.

14
Cox
Decastro
Barron

Trade Down
Mercilus
Glenn/Konz
Gilmore/Kirkpatrick
Poe

Mayock said Chandler Jones and McClellin were late first rounders now which surprised me.

 

[DFWJC]

Mayock said Chandler Jones and McClellin were late first rounders now which surprised me.

Just a note and not a comment on Jones or McLellin....

but Mayock also said Chris Johnson would not make it in the NFL, except as a backup or 3rd down player.

I generally like him, and he's especially solid in his DB evaluations. But the guy does miss badly sometimes.

 

[SDogo]

If Poe's "lazy", "sloppy", "unmotivated" and "hard to coach" now, just think how he's going to be after he's given a nice chuck of change to put in the bank.

yeah, I just dont buy that he is a "victim" of bad coaching his entire career. I have been around the game one way or another from player to coach to scout for almost 30 years. When your a player of Poe's caliber you are presented opportunities and granted abilities a lot of people don't ever get. From simple meet and greet sessions with famous players and coaches to football camps dating all the way back to his FR year in High School. Your telling me over the last 8+ years this player has never been given any pointers, any coaching or any technique work? Tim Harris who had a great NFL career is a regular fixture in Memphis working with the defense, never has he tried to help Poe? Frank Trotter, a lower grade DE from Memphis who does not have nearly Poe's ability may get drafted because of his football sense and label for being a technician. This can't be because he absorbed what was given to him can it be?

Despite all that, there is a requirement, a need you can't teach any prospect to develop and improve. Having played the game myself and being a competitor, having attended these camps and understanding what it takes all while going to high school in a small farm town where the graduating class rarely reached 50 and coaches were your local shop owners I found a way and resources to better understand my position and the game. What it took to be better. It's the extra work that must be put in to be elite.

You can only get so much coaching, at some point, you need to want it for yourself.

 

[a_minimalist]

You can only get so much coaching, at some point, you need to want it for yourself.

:clap2:

 

[InmanRoshi]

If it were that easy to confuse poor coaching with poor effort, wouldn't there be tons of questions marks about Amini Silatolu's effort. He couldn't have received great coaching after having spent his entire career in JUCO or Midwestern State. Yet, all you hear about him is what a high effort guy he is and how he's almost too aggressive for his own good. I think scouts should be able to easily differentiate raw from lazy.

 

[cowboysooner]

If it were that easy to confuse poor coaching with poor effort, wouldn't there be tons of questions marks about Amini Silatolu's effort. He couldn't have received great coaching after having spent his entire career in JUCO or Midwestern State. Yet, all you hear about him is what a high effort guy he is and how he's almost too aggressive for his own good. I think scouts should be able to easily differentiate raw from lazy.

Coaching in Wichita Falls is top notch because Jimmy Johnson had training camp there once.

I think the bigger issue for Poe is what kind of effort did he give when his team is getting skunked. In the words of the great fake Bill Walton, "it is difficult to give constant effort in the face of consistent failure."

 

[Eskimo]

Never worked with Bennett.

Bennett didn't produce as a receiver in college. People were just projecting onto Bennett a skill set he didn't have as a football player even though he seemed to have it on the basketball court.

Coples did produce as a pass rusher in college - big difference. Even in his off year he was still pretty darn productive.

 

[SDogo]

Bennett didn't produce as a receiver in college. People were just projecting onto Bennett a skill set he didn't have as a football player even though he seemed to have it on the basketball court.

Coples did produce as a pass rusher in college - big difference. Even in his off year he was still pretty darn productive.

This whole discussion as been about Poe.

 

[Eskimo]

This whole discussion as been about Poe.

I thought you guys were talking about Coples again there (the thread is titled Coples and he pops up every so often).

I agree with Poe - not enough production to pick him in the first round. Actually, given the level of competition I would argue there may not be enough there to even consider him in the second round.

 

[rash]

This whole discussion as been about Poe.

Sorry to bring up the man again, but I for one think Poe can be a Pro Bowler in this league.

...but then again I thought Akwasi Owusu-Ansah was the next Deion.

 

[SDogo]

I thought you guys were talking about Coples again there (the thread is titled Coples and he pops up every so often).

I agree with Poe - not enough production to pick him in the first round. Actually, given the level of competition I would argue there may not be enough there to even consider him in the second round.

I can see how the mistake was made. It turned to Poe very early and I dont think it ever got back on track.