CowboyJoe’s Assestment of Penalties, Accountability, & Camp Cupcake

cowboyjoe

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CowboyJoe’s Assestment of Penalties, Accountability, & Camp Cupcake to reasons why Cowboys Lost in Games last year

Maybe there is no definite correlation between penalties and losing, but it cannot be disputed that the effort to overcome penalties has made winning much more difficult for the Cowboys. Imagine how many more third down conversions we'd have, or how much better our red-zone numbers might be, if we weren't trying to overcome stupid penalties in every game? Is it that the players just don’t give a hoot, or lack of execution in practices. Granted, when a head coach gives players days off, then time you should have been working on plays in practice, it’s hard to make up that lost time needed for execution in practices. Maybe Bob Lily, Nate Newton, Charles Haley, Leon Lett and Cliff Harris said it best that, the players were in great physical shape, but not in hitting shape. In other words, players have to hit and be hit, to get used to the physical style in the NFL, and until leaders step up on the team, then the Head Coach must be the leader of the team, and make all players and coaches accountable. Some of the good news is that Wade Phillips has done just that, gotten special teams players, gotten tougher on players and coaches, as well as himself, time will tell. Granted players should be accountable, and professionals, but most players you have to push, motivate them to become the players they can be. When you don’t make the players study, work hard in practices with detail, attention to mistakes, then maybe you do become prone to more mistakes, penalties, and stupid plays.

After watching the games last year it was very evident that the one of the major problems with the Cowboys is that they lack physicality. The offensive/defensive lines, special teams and coaching staff have not been punching people in the mouth. Rather teams have been punching the Cowboys in the mouth, and the Cowboys have been reeling. Below are some stats on penalties on the Dallas Cowboys players.



GUILTY UNIT No. Rk. Offense 33 1 Defense 16 T-9 Special teams 8 11 ITEMIZED INFRACTIONS No. Rk. Holding 8 T-4 False starts 11 T-4 Grounding 2 T-1 Illegal blocks 5 1 SOURCE: STATS, Inc.


HOLDING Rk., Team No. Yds. 1. Minnesota 11 109 2. Tampa Bay 10 99 3. New Orleans 9 90 T4. Cowboys 8 80 T4. Green Bay 8 78 FALSE STARTS Rk., Team No. Yds. 1. Carolina 20 96 2. Cleveland 13 65 3. Oakland 12 60 T4. Chicago 11 55 T4. Cowboys 11 51


ILLEGAL BLOCKS ON PUNT/PUNT RETURN Rk., Team No. Yds. 1. Cowboys 5 50 2. Chicago 4 32 3. Arizona 3 20 4. 5 teams tied 2


If you go back to the 2007 season, you can see some of the correlation, with why the Cowboys were playing sloppy football ever since mid November.

Leading up to the New England game, with two week’s worth of just 7 combined penalties, the Dallas Cowboys tied a season high with 12 for a grand total of 98 yards to the Patriots. To me this was the start of a trend for lackluster play, desire and penalties developing for the Dallas Cowboys. In those infractions, a grand total of four came at critical moments for the Cowboys and the coaching staff. Another thing, this all started in mid november till December, when Wade had the players not practicing at all in pads, for those 2 months. Then, on top of that giving the players some extra days off, and not double checking with the players to see if they were doing their cardivacular work leading into the week before the big playoff game against the Giants. One particular play if you remember was the pass interference call on Pat Watkins covering Randy Moss of the Patriots. After that play which you will see a developing trend for the Cowboys, a let down so to speak, the Patriots scored on the very next play to retake the lead in the game.

Another critical play was when defensive end Jason Hatcher's late hit on Tom Brady after he threw an incomplete pass into the end zone was also costly. The 15-yard penalty led to a Patriots field goal that increased the lead to 31-24 with 2:18 remaining in the third quarter. That's a potential 27 point difference on penalties alone.
There's your ballgame right there. You can't beat anyone doing that, you just can't. Next, we have the giant game in 2007, where inside linebacker Bradie James was flagged for unnecessary roughness after he pushed Giants running back Brandon Jacobs to the ground with 7:56 left in the first quarter. Seconds earlier, after a completed pass, Jacobs hugged outside linebacker Greg Ellis. But something bothered James, and he came up to Jacobs and gave him a shove. "I was surprised anybody has any penalty like that," Phillips said. "We don't want that. We're going to do something about that." Yet, all season long, stupid plays were being made by the Cowboys all year long.

Near the end of the first half, the Giants, trailing by three, elected to run out the clock. Jacobs gained only one yard and as he lay on the ground, linebacker Kevin Burnett leaned down and started talking to him. Again, this points to dumb stupid penalties by the Cowboys players, only concerned about themselves, not the game or their teammates. Burnett was flagged 15 yards for taunting, and the penalty moved the ball to the Giants' 49. That yardage led to a 40-yard Lawrence Tynes field goal that tied the score, 17-17, going into halftime. This was another trend that later developed for the matchup between the Cowboys and Giants in the playoff game in Dallas. Which the Giants realized, they had scored on the Cowboys almost at the end of the first half because the Cowboys had a let down. Then, what happened in the playoff game, Michael Strahan said that the Giants remembered they had scored against the Cowboys right before the half, and they could do it again, even possibly at the end of the game, and sure enough that happened. That attitude comes from lack of the head coach relaying that to the team. This same laid back attitude that Wade has, instilled itself to some degree among the players. Like the great coach John Madden said, the players take on the personality of their head coach.

When asked about his team's penalty problems last year, Wade Phillips claimed that penalty totals have no correlation to wins and losses. Is that an accurate statement?
Not really. A study was done at length in the 2007 edition of Pro Football Prospectus, and they discovered the following:

* There's a .21 correlation between penalties and wins; the 25 most-penalized teams from 2003-2007 averaged 1.5 wins less than the 25 least-penalized teams.
* Penalties on defense and special teams bear little-to-no relationship with success ; the correlation between offensive penalties and wins is .31. To use the same indicator from before, the 25 teams with the most offensive penalties over that time frame averaged 6.2 wins, while the 25 teams with the least penalties averaged 7.9.
So, then, some penalties have no correlation to wins and losses. Others have a decent correlation.

Now on to some interesting facts about penalties, that to me points to lack of leadership from the coaches and players, really wanting to pay the price in pro football to be the best. One of those teams that has surpassed 100 penalties this year is Dallas, which leads the league by a pretty comfortable margin:
32. Dallas - 115 penalties, 911 yards
31. Oakland - 105 penalties, 798 yards
30. Tennessee - 105 penalties, 825 yards
29. Green Bay- 104 penalties, 924 yards

Which makes me point out these 2 important facts that happened with the Dallas Cowboys in 1971 and 1978. First, after the Cowboys couldn’t win the big one after super bowl 5 against the Colts, and Cowboys were at a low mark mid season with won loss record of 4-3. The team players on the Cowboys roster at that time, the Cowboys called a team meeting, no coaches, and really aired things out, players were ticked off about losing. Because some players weren’t pulling their weight on the field. Bob Lily said, no players are going to get into the end zone unless it is over dead bodies against our defense. Which is exactly what happened, no team scored a touchdown on the Cowboys after that, especially in the playoffs. Then, in 1978, the Cowboys were losing, and Jackie Smith All Pro TE called a closed team meeting, and said. Look your all playing like your all world team on paper and thought in your mind, but your not practicing on the football field like a team should. Then, the whole team took to heart what Jackie said, and started practicing hard, hitting hard, and boom, the Cowboys went to the Super Bowl that year. This all started with dedication, accountability, studying film in more detail, practicing on the field during the week with more hitting and determination because of leaders on the team holding the players accountable. I think we would all agree right now, players that are true leaders aren’t stepping up on the team now, taking names, making the players accountable like a Charles Haley, Kevin Gogan, Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman and Darren Woodson. So, where does that leadership have to come from, the Head Coach and coaching staff, till leadership develops among the players.

Now, on to some other games which the Cowboys lost due to penalties and sloppy playing, and dumb killer mistakes. In another game, offensive tackle Colombo was flagged for unnecessary roughness after Sam Hurd made a 3-yard reception. Then before the next snap, the Cowboys were flagged for having 12 men in the huddle. How in the Sam Hill can you have 12 men on the field. Dedicated Pro Football teams and disciplined teams don’t make those stupid mistakes.

What should bother Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, coach Wade Phillips and the players is that many of the team's wounds are self-inflicted. These are some statements for the Dallas Cowboys players. "The penalties are hurting us, keeping us from being successful," Jason Witten said. "All of us have to be more accountable. We can't make those mistakes. For example some of the type of penalties had a ratio of Twenty-five of the 57 penalties called against the Cowboys were things they can control, like false starts, illegal motion, un-sportsmanlike conduct and, in the case of the Washington game, one backbreaking 12-men-on-the-field penalty, again. But it just comes with concentration." Concentration has to also come from the coaches getting the players ready, with the right attitude.

As a team, the Cowboys had 11 false-start penalties by mid-season mark, tied for fourth most in the league. Witten had two false starts against Arizona. Rookie Martellus Bennett had one last week against St. Louis when the Cowboys lined up to go for it on fourth-and-1 at the Rams' 24-yard line. After the penalty, Nick Folk missed a 46-yard field goal. False starts are understandable on the road. Yet, good teams find a way to overcome them and generally don’t make bone headed plays to shoot themselves in the foot.

Other penalties are simply baffling. The Cowboys were called for a delay-of-game penalty with 7:34 remaining against Cincinnati. This came on first-and-10 from the Dallas 20 after a change of possession. In the Pittsburgh game the Cowboys had four possessions in the final period, with two punts, an interception and a turnover on downs.

In the Ravens game in Dallas, three beautiful plays by Choice, nullified by a poor um… choice by Romo, and a forced bomb down the field, which Reed intercepted (as he is prone to do). Wade Phillips continued his trend of poorly chosen challenges, losing a challenge over a Mason reception (after which Mason left again, his trend being one catch and out). Again, miscommunication between the Cowboys coaches, giving information to Wade Phillips on the field. What in the heck are those coaches upstairs doing, watching some other show? What followed was a couple of mostly uninteresting drive attempts ending in punts, until the Ravens got inside the Cowboys 40 on a punt return. They got a few more yards and went for another field goal, but faked it and Sam Koch ran for a first down. It wasn’t long after that Joe Flacco threw his first touchdown pass of the night and found Derrick Mason in the end zone. Because of a couple of stupid penalties by the Dallas defense, the Ravens wound up in field goal range on the next drive, and the Ravens made it a two possession game once again. Two plays later, Le’Ron McClain broke off an 82 yard run for TD. That one was in reality the game sealing touchdown. Final score 33 – 24 Baltimore over Dallas. It wasn’t their fault, really, they were just worn out because the offense couldn’t stay on the field. In the Giants game December 14, 2008, the Cowboys committed 11 penalties for a grand total of 108 yards, that equals to one full and a quarter of lost yardage, resulting in possible touch down score for the opposing team.

Some are just human error. Patrick Watkins said he didn't hear the defensive coaches change the personnel grouping during a timeout against the Commanders That's how the Cowboys had 12 men on the field on a critical third-and-2 from the Dallas 31 in the fourth quarter. Again lack of desire, intensity, heart from the players. The defense stuffed Clinton Portis, but the Commanders got a first down by penalty. Washington finished the drive with a pivotal 29-yard field goal in the Cowboys' 26-24 loss.

"I think more than anything, it's accountability to your teammates," Phillips said. "Players take pride in trying to do the right things." Do the players really take pride in trying to do the right things? I question that!

With so many factors contributing to their recent fall from grace, none shine brighter than the mountain of costly penalties that continue to follow this team, week in and week out. Watch a Cowboys game and you are bound to see Flozell Adams false start, multiple defensive encroachments, penalty after penalty on the secondary, blocks in the back during punt coverage, and usually a face mask or two for good measure. Some variation of the above happened every week last year.

When most Cowboys fans think about false-start penalties, they immediately think of Flozell Adams. He tied a career high with nine false-start penalties last season, according to Stats Inc.
If you don't believe what you've seen on the field, check out this statistical evidence, courtesy of Stats, Inc.
*Adams is tied for 20th in the league for most sacks allowed with six. That includes all players, not just tackles.
*He's tied for sixth in the league for most holding penalties with three.
*He's tied for second in the league for most false starts with six.
*The Cowboys rank 21st in the league in average yards running behind left tackle (3.48 per carry).
For a season and a half, Dallas’ high-powered offense has covered up these mistakes.
Sunday, without their usual Romo-led attack, it became impossible to ignore their lackadaisical ways. Gone are the days when players would fear returning to the Cowboy bench after stupid penalties, the days when Bill Parcells’ ominous growl and a good tongue lashing would be waiting for you on the sidelines. All of that has been replaced by the player-friendly Wade Phillips regime. Now, accountability within Dallas’ freewheeling style doesn’t exist and penalties have become accepted as a way of life.

On numerous occasions, Coach Phillips has been pressed about his team’s lack of attention to detail. Time and time again, he offers the same rhetoric—that the penalties are on him and not the players. Hopefully, that is changing with Wade’s new style of changing things, only time will tell. When asked about where the accountability lies, following an eight-penalty effort in a blowout loss to St. Louis three weeks ago, Phillips said, “It’s always the head coach; it’s always the coach, and it always will be with me.” He continued to say, “I’m not changing; I’m going to coach the way I coach, and I think they will respond. I think they will play hard, and I think we’re determined to do better, and that’s what we’re going to try to do.” Things did not change; in fact, they got worse as you all know. On an afternoon when they needed to be flawless, they were as sloppy as ever.

The best football in the NFL last year was being played in the NFC South, where all four teams were above .500 as the playoff race heads down the stretch. But the cleanest football in the NFL is being played in the AFC East. Buffalo, Miami, New England and the New York Jets rank among the five least-penalized teams last year. And that gave all four a chance to play on into January last year. The quickest way to beat yourself in the NFL is with generosity, either by giving your opponent free footballs from turnovers or free yardage from penalties. The Patriots were penalized a league-low 37 times last season, so they have not been beating themselves. They are 7-4 despite the season-long injury absence of NFL MVP Tom Brady. The Dolphins were penalized 50 times, the Jets and Bills 51 times apiece. The Jets lead the East at 8-3 and both the Dolphins and Bills are 6-5.

The Arizona Cardinals led the NFL in penalties the year before last season, which helped short-circuit their playoff bid. The Cardinals were penalized 137 times for 1,128 yards, free yardage that contributed to an 8-8 finish. You all saw how the Cardinals did when they cut down on penalties, sloppy football and made players accountable.

It's certainly possible to win without good special teams. Of course, having great coverage units and kickers helps, but it's just not a large-enough portion of the game to overcome having an excellent offense and defense, as the Cowboys have had the past few years. In 2007, the Colts had the worst special teams in football, and they made it to the playoffs. That being said, if we look at the five worst special teams in the league (by DVOA) over the last five seasons, only the '07 Colts, the '05 Broncos, and the '04 Rams managed to get to the playoffs. That's three out of 25; not a particularly good percentage. So, sort of a roundabout answer, but it's hard to say.

We were last place in penalties with 119 over the year. That's about 7 per game. The yardage in penalties for us was 952 which equals about 60 yards a game. When you take into account that we almost always gave the opposition great field position on change of possession (a lot of times beyond their own 30) you can basically assume we gave up 7 points per game on special teams and penalties, followed by perhaps another 3-7 for our TO's. So that's really a 10-14 point per game gift, due to sloppy play and execution. Just remember what Bill Parcells said about lost yardage on the football field in penalties, and special teams, that can get you beat as a football team.

Wade giving the players days off was absolutely ridiculous. I don't know what he was thinking, but he routinely did it, and they routinely came out un-prepared.But in all fairness, we were penalized and played stupid under Parcells, so I don't know. When you have two VERY different coaches with two VERY different coaching styles and you STILL have lots of penalties, its time to look at the players and put it on them for most of the blame. But, and that‘s a big but, until leaders on this team step up, leadership must come from the Head Coach.
__________________

Until the Cowboys become a mentally and physically tough team they're not going to reach their potential. Reading comments from players and coaches for Pittsburgh and Arizona last year confirmed that. After the Cardinals lost 48-7 to New England, Ken Whisenhunt made the players practice in pads every day the following week, while telling them everybody's job was up for grabs. "Ken kept walking up and down the aisle in the plane," Carthon said. "Every time he did it, I saw this look in his eye that let me know he was going to do something dramatic." But our guys bought into it. They accepted the challenge and they responded. They knew they hadn't played their best football. That was all about toughness. Jimmy Johnson did that one year after the humiliating loss against the Commanders, telling the players after yelling at them on the plane, I hate losing and so should you. The head coach of Texas Longhorns changed his soft style one year and you saw the results. Reports were that after the humiliating defeat, when the Longhorn players got back to their home stadium after the game, the Head Coach made them watch film and practice till way early in the morning in pads. Bingo the players got the point, they didn’t play a sloppy game after that. That’s exactly what this team needs.

Again, this statement comes from the Steelers, "That was about seeing who was going to be mentally tough and who wanted to do whatever it took to win. Teams have to be pushed and prodded sometimes. That's what coaches do."
No matter hows many questions folks asked Mike Tomlin about his approach, the answer never changed: He wants tough, smart, disciplined players singularly focused on winning.

Imagine that. So should the Cowboys!
 

JakeCamp12

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Penalties have killed this team for over a decade. Our failure to find a LT to replace Adams has only made the problem worst. The players on offense that always seem to get the back breaking penalties during a good drive seem to be Adams with his false starts and Witten with his illlegal motion. Just drives me nuts to see dumb penalties like that. :bang2:
 

yentl911

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Excellent write up Cowboyjoe.

One point of emphasis: the players were in great physical shape, but not in hitting shape. In other words, players have to hit and be hit, to get used to the physical style in the NFL

That connot be stressed enough. Jimmy used to have brutal training camps to get the players ready for the rigors of the NFL season and I feel we have gotten away from that effective approach. If this team is to get back to being a real contender and finally winning a playoff game the players need to get tougher and more physical.

I know the game has evolved but Football is still Football. It is still about being tough and knocking the **** out of the players on the other team. If the team isn't tough, or able to take the physical pounding that is required, all of the planning and scheming becomes irrelevent.

I feel that this is the reason for the late season declines over the past several seasons.
 

yentl911

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In line with my comments above - we were absolutely manhandled by the Eagles in that last game of the season and the Ravens RB's ran over our D with the game on the line in the last home game of TX Stadium.

Those two teams were more physical and took it to us when it mattered most.
 

DallasEast

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cowboyjoe;2854672 said:
Wade giving the players days off was absolutely ridiculous. I don't know what he was thinking, but he routinely did it, and they routinely came out un-prepared.But in all fairness, we were penalized and played stupid under Parcells, so I don't know. When you have two VERY different coaches with two VERY different coaching styles and you STILL have lots of penalties, its time to look at the players and put it on them for most of the blame. But, and that‘s a big but, until leaders on this team step up, leadership must come from the Head Coach.
A very good point and an excellent post.
 

yentl911

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Well, the Tuna did say that this was a "Dumb Team".....maybe there is some truth to that comment.
 

THUMPER

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As frustrated as I am by the dumb penalties that this team commits, we are not that unusual in the total number of them.

We have led the league in penalties 5 times since the merger in 1970:

Year - pen - record
1971 - 94 (14 games) 11-3
1972 - 90 (14 games) 10-4
1988 - 141 3-13
1999 - 136 8-8
2008 - 119 9-7

We won the SB in 1971 and went to the NFC Championship game in '72. In the other 3 seasons we failed to make the playoffs.

While there is some correlation between penalties and success, I believe that the real issue is the type of penalties and the situation around them.

A false on 1st & 10 at mid field is not a big deal. A false start on 3rd & goal at their 2 is a big problem.

PI calls on big plays, holding on 3rd down plays, penalties inside ether 10 yard line, penalties that kill drives or put us in 2nd or 3rd & long situations, roughing on a key 3rd down play, unsportsmanlike when we've stopped them, etc.

There are penalties that kill us and others that don't. think we are seeing too many "dumb" penalties that are killing us, putting us in too many 2nd or 3rd & long situations, forcing us to pass, taking away from the goalline, or backing us into our own.

Every team has dumb penalties but we seem to have more than our share. I don't see a huge difference between the total number of penalties over the years for us but the situations they occur in and our ability, or lack thereof, to overcome them is the major difference.

The total number of penalties in our SB seasons:
1970 - 87 (99 if 16 games)
1971 - 94 (107 if 16 games)
1975 - 94 (107 if 16 games)
1977 - 108 (123 if 16 games)
1978 - 95
1992 - 91
1993 - 94
1995 - 90

As you can see penalties were a problem for us in the 70s but we were able to overcome them (thanks in large part to Staubach!). 1977 would have been worse than 2008 had it been a 16 game season, but we went all the way that year because the penalties didn't cost us games. Our team was able to overcome a lot of little mistakes with big plays on both sides of the ball.

In the 90s we didn't have as many penalties, partly because we were in the lead a lot and partly because Jimmy didn't tolerate them. We were a disciplined team that didn't make many mistakes in games. We didn't turn the ball over much and didn't commit dumb penalties very often. When we did, we were good enough to overcome them.

We went 5-11 in 2001 but only had 91 penalties. Our best year since the merger was in 1991 when we only had 74 penalties.

During Jimmy's time here we had:

1989 - 100
1990 - 98
1991 - 74
1992 - 91
1993 - 94

Again, a lot of that was due to coaching and the players we had didn't make a lot of dumb mistakes (except for Leon Lett of course).

Since then it has been bad in terms of the dumb mistakes and our inability to overcome them.

I also think we suffer from back-to-back penalties too often. A 5-yard false start on 1st & goal at the 5. Then a holding penalty, putting us in 1st and goal from the 20! A short run and an incomplete puts us at 3rd and goal from the 17. That play usually results in either an incomplete or an INT as the QB tries to make a play and forces the ball. We either end up with a turnover or a FG after having done well to get into scoring position.

To blame these kinds of penalties on Wade Phillips is absurd because they have been plaguing us since Jimmy left the team. We did well in 1995 with only 90 penalties but it went way up after that, particularly in terms of "dumb" penalties.

Like Jimmy, Parcells was known as a disciplinarian but he was completely unable to eliminate these things.

I think the reason lies in the lack of a true chain of command which robs the coaching staff of any real authority. When you have "star" players that can go directly to the owner it undermines the coaches' authority to enforce any kind of real discipline. Jimmy didn't have to deal with that but every HC since then has.

Thee is only one constant since 1993 and it is Jerry Jones. You wan to know why this team commits dumb penalties, Jerry Jones. Players are not truly held accountable and they know that they can always go around the coaching staff when things get tough.

I am hopeful that with the changes we have seen this offseason, with the cuts, draft and FA in particular, Jerry will not play as big a role in the day-to-day stuff as he used to as it appears he is handing over some of those things to Stephen. Once that happens we will see this team start to really play as a TEAM and we will start winning the big games again.

Sorry for going on so long.
 

cowboyjoe

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That's true thumper, in fact, the cowboys under tom landry committed their most penalties in 1971. But your missing one important fact, the Cowboys didnt commit bone headed plays after midseason, when they had a closed meeting, and players jumped on each other. The Cowboys did the same thing in 1978, after Jackie Smith told them, your practicing like you dont have to work, and your not playing like your capable of playing. Some of the players were really ticked off that some werent playing as hard as they could.
Go back and look after midseason, hardly no team scored on the cowboys for a touchdown, especially by the playoffs, all teams scored field goals not touchdowns against the cowboys going into the playoffs and after that closed meeting. That was due to leaders on the team, making players accountable and not doing dumb stupid plays. On top of that their special teams were very good too, something I think you would agree our special teams were awful last year.
Now, if you take those 2 things i just mentioned, add them into the loss of yardage due to dumb penalties, you will see a mixture of what is really going on. On top of that, without true leadership by veteran players, only way to get leadership is from the head coach. So, add those things up thumper
1.. No leadership from veteran players in locker room and on the field
2. loss of yardage due to dumb plays
3. No hitting in practice, not wearing pads in training camp and the last 2 months of last year and 2007 season, allowing players to have days off, when you should have been working them.

Did Tom Landry or Jimmy Johnson ever give the players day off after they lost a ball game, heck no.

Add all of that together, and you have your answer.
 

cowboyjoe

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sometimes Head Coaches are their own worst enemy. Dont get me wrong, I loved Tom Landry, even talked to him once. I cried like a baby when the Cowboys and Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry, was I ever ticked off. I even wrote one very hot letter to Jerry Jones. Not sure that he got my letter, but I really let him have it.
Yet, I think you would agree with me, Tom did a bone headed thing by using 2 QB's in 1971 with the shuttle system each game. Till Bob Lily and other players got together and nominated Lee Roy Jordan to go tell Landry, we dont care which QB you make as the starter, just choose one. The rest was history with cowboys starting Staubach after midseason. Was it a bone headed play by Landry to use a 2 QB shuttle up to then, yes.

Even Landry said that he made a mistake in 1965 by drafting Craig Morton, and that he should have drafted Joe Namath.

1965 - Round 1
Sel # Player Position School Team
1 Tucker Frederickson RB Auburn New York Giants
Mike Curtis LB Duke Baltimore Colts
Donny Anderson RB Texas Tech Green Bay Packers
Craig Morton QB California Dallas Cowboys
Tom Nowatzke FB Indiana Detroit Lions
Jack Snow WR Notre Dame Minnesota Vikings
Clancy Williams DB Washington State Los Angeles Rams
Ken Willard RB North Carolina San Francisco 49ers
Gale Sayers RB Kansas Chicago Bears
George Donnelly DB Illinois San Francisco 49ers
Dick Butkus LB Illinois Chicago Bears
1965 - Round 2
Sel # Player Position School Team
Jim Garcia DE Purdue Cleveland Browns
Ralph Neely T Oklahoma Baltimore Colts
Archie Sutton T Illinois Minnesota Vikings

[edit] First round AFL draft;
Pick Team Player Position College
1 New York Jets Namath, JoeJoe Namath Quarterback Alabama
2 Houston Oilers Elkins, LarryLarry Elkins Wide receiver Baylor
3 Oakland Raiders Schuh, HarryHarry Schuh Defensive tackle Memphis
4 New York Jets (from Denver Broncos) Nowatzke, TomTom Nowatzke Fullback Indiana
5 Kansas City Chiefs Sayers, GaleGale Sayers Running back Kansas
6 San Diego Chargers DeLong, SteveSteve DeLong Defensive end Tennessee
7 Boston Patriots Rush, JerryJerry Rush Defensive tackle Michigan State
8 Buffalo Bills Davidson, JimJim Davidson Tackle Ohio State


[edit] Second round
 

Yakuza Rich

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Penalties have zero correlation to wins and losses in the NFL. Believe me, I've ran the stats almost countless times spanning as many years as I could find and they just don't equate to wins and losses when you look at it from an objective statistical standpoint.

However, I do think it shows an indicator of discipline and accountability. But we have more than players to worry about when it comes to accountability. Remember in week 4 in the Skins loss when we ran the ball 9 freaking times? Garrett sure didn't hold himself accountable on that one. He blamed Romo. Finally Romo took the brunt of the blame. Then when Romo complained about the pass protection schemes (I believe it was the Cardinals game), Garrett made sure to not take the blame in that either.

This is a big reason why I wasn't happy with the Owens' release because it signified another case of Garrett passing the blame until he found somebody who couldn't pass the blame anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of Andy Reid, but you can rest assured when the offense/team doesn't perform well he almost always takes the blame and says that HE has to do a better job of coaching.

As far as not hitting goes, I'm still not against it. The big problem is that the local media is largely against Dallas (and poses it as 'hey, it's not our job to root for the Cowboys!) and most other teams have local media that has a lovefest going on for the most part. I've been to a few NFL training camps in my lifetime (Jets, Giants, Bills, Falcons, Panthers) and there have been quite a few times where there's no hitting going on. The local media for those teams never even mention it, but here it's a different story.

But with Parcells and Campo we did a ton of hitting in training camp and still committed quite a few penalties.

I do agree with the one poster who said that guys like Belichick and Reid incorporate no hitting in a smarter fashion as a 'reward' for when the team plays well. But when they play poorly a few times in a row, they then go back to hitting as a form of 'punishment.'





YAKUZA
 

adbutcher

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Yakuza Rich;2854827 said:
Penalties have zero correlation to wins and losses in the NFL. Believe me, I've ran the stats almost countless times spanning as many years as I could find and they just don't equate to wins and losses when you look at it from an objective statistical standpoint.

However, I do think it shows an indicator of discipline and accountability. But we have more than players to worry about when it comes to accountability. Remember in week 4 in the Skins loss when we ran the ball 9 freaking times? Garrett sure didn't hold himself accountable on that one. He blamed Romo. Finally Romo took the brunt of the blame. Then when Romo complained about the pass protection schemes (I believe it was the Cardinals game), Garrett made sure to not take the blame in that either.

This is a big reason why I wasn't happy with the Owens' release because it signified another case of Garrett passing the blame until he found somebody who couldn't pass the blame anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of Andy Reid, but you can rest assured when the offense/team doesn't perform well he almost always takes the blame and says that HE has to do a better job of coaching.

As far as not hitting goes, I'm still not against it. The big problem is that the local media is largely against Dallas (and poses it as 'hey, it's not our job to root for the Cowboys!) and most other teams have local media that has a lovefest going on for the most part. I've been to a few NFL training camps in my lifetime (Jets, Giants, Bills, Falcons, Panthers) and there have been quite a few times where there's no hitting going on. The local media for those teams never even mention it, but here it's a different story.

But with Parcells and Campo we did a ton of hitting in training camp and still committed quite a few penalties.

I do agree with the one poster who said that guys like Belichick and Reid incorporate no hitting in a smarter fashion as a 'reward' for when the team plays well. But when they play poorly a few times in a row, they then go back to hitting as a form of 'punishment.'





YAKUZA

There is nothing wrong with this post especially the take on the local Cowboy media.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Yakuza Rich;2854827 said:
Penalties have zero correlation to wins and losses in the NFL. Believe me, I've ran the stats almost countless times spanning as many years as I could find and they just don't equate to wins and losses when you look at it from an objective statistical standpoint.

However, I do think it shows an indicator of discipline and accountability. But we have more than players to worry about when it comes to accountability. Remember in week 4 in the Skins loss when we ran the ball 9 freaking times? Garrett sure didn't hold himself accountable on that one. He blamed Romo. Finally Romo took the brunt of the blame. Then when Romo complained about the pass protection schemes (I believe it was the Cardinals game), Garrett made sure to not take the blame in that either.

This is a big reason why I wasn't happy with the Owens' release because it signified another case of Garrett passing the blame until he found somebody who couldn't pass the blame anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of Andy Reid, but you can rest assured when the offense/team doesn't perform well he almost always takes the blame and says that HE has to do a better job of coaching.

As far as not hitting goes, I'm still not against it. The big problem is that the local media is largely against Dallas (and poses it as 'hey, it's not our job to root for the Cowboys!) and most other teams have local media that has a lovefest going on for the most part. I've been to a few NFL training camps in my lifetime (Jets, Giants, Bills, Falcons, Panthers) and there have been quite a few times where there's no hitting going on. The local media for those teams never even mention it, but here it's a different story.

But with Parcells and Campo we did a ton of hitting in training camp and still committed quite a few penalties.

I do agree with the one poster who said that guys like Belichick and Reid incorporate no hitting in a smarter fashion as a 'reward' for when the team plays well. But when they play poorly a few times in a row, they then go back to hitting as a form of 'punishment.'





YAKUZA
Good post.

Bill Walsh didn't hit much, and I think he did okay, too.

I wonder how much of this is about individual players. Flozell Adams doesn't commit false starts because of some nebulous lack of discipline from above, but because that's just who he is. He could play for Vince Lombardi and he'd do the same thing.
 

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Players were given days off after losses last year?

So it didn't matter if they won or lost?
 

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cowboyjoe;2854672 said:
When most Cowboys fans think about false-start penalties, they immediately think of Flozell Adams. He tied a career high with nine false-start penalties last season, according to Stats Inc.
If you don't believe what you've seen on the field, check out this statistical evidence, courtesy of Stats, Inc.
*Adams is tied for 20th in the league for most sacks allowed with six. That includes all players, not just tackles.
*He's tied for sixth in the league for most holding penalties with three.
*He's tied for second in the league for most false starts with six.
*The Cowboys rank 21st in the league in average yards running behind left tackle (3.48 per carry).

"But who are we going to get to fill his spot?" is always the excuse when the piss poor stats indicate that just about anybody would be an improvement over Flo. He has no redeeming qualities to his game. Lots of costly, repetitive, STUPID penalties, a matador on pass rush, and can't even run block effectively.
 

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Chocolate Lab;2854861 said:
Good post.

Bill Walsh didn't hit much, and I think he did okay, too.

I wonder how much of this is about individual players. Flozell Adams doesn't commit false starts because of some nebulous lack of discipline from above, but because that's just who he is. He could play for Vince Lombardi and he'd do the same thing.

Flo wouldn't play for Lombardi. No way he would put up with the sloppy play. Flo would have been cut long ago if Jimmy were coach right now. In fact, Flo would be one of the first guys Jimmy would cut.
 

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Yakuza Rich;2854827 said:
i agree with some of what you say, but not all, the statics i found show their is a coorelation on dumb penalties, that the cowboy make; example, false starts, or like the Commanders game; remember 12 men on the field,

that happened like 3 times last year in games, no excuse for that; thats plain sloppy

now if you add in the lost yardage on penalties, special teams via punt and kickoffs, plus dumb plays like 12 men on the field, etc

you get an average that i found on statics.com

that adds up to like what bill parcells said, lost yardage and sloppy playing;

that adds up to about 10 points a game;
 

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RoadRunner;2854875 said:
Flo wouldn't play for Lombardi. No way he would put up with the sloppy play. Flo would have been cut long ago if Jimmy were coach right now. In fact, Flo would be one of the first guys Jimmy would cut.

So why didn't Parcells just cut him?

RoadRunner;2854871 said:
"But who are we going to get to fill his spot?" is always the excuse when the piss poor stats indicate that just about anybody would be an improvement over Flo. He has no redeeming qualities to his game. Lots of costly, repetitive, STUPID penalties, a matador on pass rush, and can't even run block effectively.

Oh. Never mind. :rolleyes:
 
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