Cowboys and Depth: a deeper look

jterrell

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Everyone who watched the 2008 Cowboys saw injuries kill the team; ironically many of the same guys who chorused that it was not a valid excuse now champion the thin depth as concern 1.

They couldn't overcome injuries to Romo, Barber, Felix Jones, et al.

So it makes some sense that the johnny-come-lately argument about Dallas is they lack depth.

But the hand-wringing is at an all-time high and coming from respectable, intelligent sources not just tim macmahon or other beat writer types.

So let's look at this by group:

QB: Hard to argue the team isn't much better at QB depth-wise. Yes, Kitna did only look average in pre-season but he isn't dead in the water and already retired mentally like Brad Johnson. This was a huge upgrade over last year.

RB: Dallas has the same players but now it trusts them all. Choice has had a year to grasp things other than running to open lanes. Crosslin is on the P.S. This is a minor plus over last year.

WR: We no longer have a hall of fame WR on the roster but hof WRs no longer play like they are at some point. The depth isn't bad. Not with Ogletree winning the 5th WR job easily. He is clearly able to run good routes and get open and will catch the ball. Cutting Stanback means depth is better here. Especially since Hurd was out basically day 1 last year. If the 3rd and 5th guys are new and you really only lost 1 player that's a net plus at depth if not for the starters.

TE: You have two studs and a good 3rd option in Philips. Chandler is on the PS and that guy can catch at least. If BP left no other lasting effect we appear to be the best NFL team in TE evaluation/talent.

OL: The big uglies are a big ugly as depth goes. This isn't a shock to anyone.
The starters can play and the backups can't. That isn't a change from last year however. And even if Brewster stayed healthy was he really going to make a big difference as a rookie. The biggest difference may be Holland being here day 1 but that won't be answered until we see Holland play beside 4 starters. Legit concern but not a bigger weakness than last year.

DL: Canty for Igor is an even swap that may be more a plus with Canty hurting. Junior for Tank is hard to call because Tank himself admitted to being poor last year. The DL isn't great but it isn't paper thin either. They rotate in liberally and Marcus Dixon has shown flashes that make him intriguing if he gets called up from the PS.

LB: OK, this one is the bugaboo. You lose Ellis and Burnett and gain draftees but only one of the 3 draftees is healthy. Depth here is a big concern. ** as a side note can someone get Carpenter some bigger pads? Why does that dude wear DB pads? He plays like a CB. All we can do here is hope Ware walks the line all year. He is the best defensive player in the league and James/Brookings are quite solid inside. The depth here deserves the insults it gets.

CB: Another slight downer. Losing Henry meant losing depth. We couldn't pay 5 mil for a 4th CB though so his trade was a great move. I expect Dallas signs a vet for depth purposes after week 1; perhaps yes even pacman. He is talented enough to be a 4th CB for sure and he won't cost much; especially since he won't be guaranteed anything and probably won't be here all year anyway.

S: I like the safeties this year. I truly believe Hamlin and Sensabaugh can play. I think Mike Hamlin is solid depth and he should help before the year is over. Again last year we lost RW31 right out of the gate and the depth never handled that loss at all. Depth is about equal to last year maybe a little better since there is no Courtney Brown around.

All in all the depth is not close to perfect but it amazes me the story is so large this year but was ignored last year. If anything we have slightly more depth overall and especially on offense.
 

DBOY3141

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We are no better or no worse than any other team in football. We have area's that are very deep: QB, RB, TE and some that need help LB/OL. I think if you compare us to the other NFCE teams, we will shake out very well.
 

Hostile

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jterrell;2927320 said:
Everyone who watched the 2008 Cowboys saw injuries kill the team; ironically many of the same guys who chorused that it was not a valid excuse now champion the thin depth as concern 1.
Ironic is right.

Cracks me up.
 

LandryFan

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jterrell;2927320 said:
WR: We no longer have a hall of fame WR on the roster but hof WRs no longer play like they are at some point. The depth isn't bad. Not with Ogletree winning the 5th WR job easily. He is clearly able to run good routes and get open and will catch the ball. Cutting Stanback means depth is better here. Especially since Hurd was out basically day 1 last year. If the 3rd and 5th guys are new and you really only lost 1 player that's a net plus at depth if not for the starters.

CB: Another slight downer. Losing Henry meant losing depth. We couldn't pay 5 mil for a 4th CB though so his trade was a great move. I expect Dallas signs a vet for depth purposes after week 1; perhaps yes even pacman. He is talented enough to be a 4th CB for sure and he won't cost much; especially since he won't be guaranteed anything and probably won't be here all year anyway.
You could have strengthened your point at WR had you mentioned RW11 having a full offseason to learn our system and jell with Romo. He will be a huge upgrade over what he was last year, although that wouldn't take a lot.
As far as Pacman at CB, HELL NO!!!
 

jterrell

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LandryFan;2927335 said:
You could have strengthened your point at WR had you mentioned RW11 having a full offseason to learn our system and jell with Romo. He will be a huge upgrade over what he was last year, although that wouldn't take a lot.
As far as Pacman at CB, HELL NO!!!

RW11 will be better but he is replacing T.O and he won't be as good imho... from a depth standpoint we get back Hurd and we add Ogletree. This was a depth-centric look obviously.

Pacman deserves to be anathema, he truly does lack intelligence but he knows the defense and is a great candidate as a CB fill in should some one get banged up. If you're looking at a guy who would be a fit ONLY if he wasn't guaranteed a red cent; could come in and play day 1 because he knows the base schemes, would fit as a man cover guy on the outside with scandrick or tnew in the slot... mental faculties not withstanding he rises to somewhere near the top of a bad list. I mean you want him or Joey Thomas?
 

Bluefin

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OL: The big uglies are a big ugly as depth goes. This isn't a shock to anyone.
The starters can play and the backups can't. That isn't a change from last year however. And even if Brewster stayed healthy was he really going to make a big difference as a rookie. The biggest difference may be Holland being here day 1 but that won't be answered until we see Holland play beside 4 starters. Legit concern but not a bigger weakness than last year.

This is the group most of the worry hovers over.

The coaches gambled last year when they thought Kyle Kosier would only miss a few games and rolled the dice with Cory Procter.

Kosier's return was brief and Procter was soon victimized by opposing defenses. Montrae Holland took quite some time to acclimate and lasted only a few games before going down with injury.

Flozell Adams played through a couple of ailments and looked bad, the coaches would not risk playing the unknown Doug Free with the playoffs in the balance.

The '07 starters are all back now and there is little concern over them as a group. They know each other and work well together, Kosier inside with Andre Gurode is like having two centers to identify alignments and line responsibilities.

Depth should be better with Doug Free having a nice camp and pre-season. Is he a future starter, that remains to be seen, but he looks like he can handle a few games if the need arises.

I don't trust Pat McQuistan's feet at tackle, it's unfortunate he couldn't stay at guard, which is his best NFL position It will be interesting to see which player is our swing tackle, McQ has been in the past while also helping on kickoff returns.

Guard depth seems solid with Montrae Holland completely at ease in the scheme, recent addition Duke Preston, McQuistan if needed and Travis Bright on the JV team.

Preston is the reserve center, a spot Cory Procter also calls home for the time being. I don't think Procter will remain on the roster much longer, but maybe the staff wants an extra body.

Rookie Robert Brewster is on PUP and unlikely to help this year, but he seems to have already convinced Wade Phillips he's a future contributor.

Maybe he's a tackle, maybe a guard, that's to be determined, it's still nice to think we may have someone worth watching.

And whatever Doug Free might be, another left tackle would seem to be high priority next April.

We've missed on our share of offensive linemen in the recent past and it's hurt the team. Still, the starters look strong and the reserves are at least a step up from what we rolled out with last year.
 

speedkilz88

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One good thing about the ILB depth problem. There are a four ILBs on the street that the Cowboys coaches know.

Matt Stewart
Matt Wilhelhm
Ryan Fowler
Rocky Boiman
 

MONT17

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Injuries are not an excuse for a Super Bowl favorite failing to make the playoffs... but what does fans criticism have to do with helping or hurting the Cowboys depth?



If you lose because of injures chances are you have no Depth!
 

Hostile

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MONT17;2927464 said:
Injuries are not an excuse for a Super Bowl favorite failing to make the playoffs... but what does fans criticism have to do with helping or hurting the Cowboys depth?



If you lose because of injures chances are you have no Depth!
So you are saying that the Patriots did not miss the playoffs in 2008 because of the injury to Tom Brady?

Interesting. Please expound on why they did. It ought to be a hoot.
 

speedkilz88

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Hostile;2927491 said:
So you are sayign that the Patriots did not miss the playoffs in 2008 because of the injury to Tom Brady?

Interesting. Please expound on why they did. It ought to be a hoot.
You totally defeat the purpose of the ignore function.
 

RS12

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WR: We no longer have a hall of fame WR on the roster but hof WRs no longer play like they are at some point. The depth isn't bad. Not with Ogletree winning the 5th WR job easily. He is clearly able to run good routes and get open and will catch the ball. Cutting Stanback means depth is better here. Especially since Hurd was out basically day 1 last year. If the 3rd and 5th guys are new and you really only lost 1 player that's a net plus at depth if not for the starters.

You like alot of people here over look the Austin/ Hurd durability issues. It has already come up in the pre-season. A good chance it is an issue during the season as well.
 

Staggerlee

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Hostile;2927491 said:
So you are saying that the Patriots did not miss the playoffs in 2008 because of the injury to Tom Brady?

Interesting. Please expound on why they did. It ought to be a hoot.
=owned!
 

Smith22

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jterrell;2927320 said:
Everyone who watched the 2008 Cowboys saw injuries kill the team; ironically many of the same guys who chorused that it was not a valid excuse now champion the thin depth as concern 1.

Injuries were a problem, but other teams had the same issues and performed well. If I remember correctly, the Ravens had 15 guys or so on the IR last year, including at least 2 starters on defense, plus some important backups.

Here is a list:

QB Kyle Boller
RB P.J. Daniels
RB Cory Ross
WR Demetrius Williams
WR Marcus Maxwell
TE Quinn "Miracle Man" Sypniewski
OT Marshal Yanda
DT Kelly Gregg
DT Dwan Edwards
DT Lamar Divens
NT Kelly Talavou
ILB Prescott Burgess
ILB Tavares Gooden
ILB Terrence Melton
CB Chris McAlister
CB David Pittman
CB Derrick Martin
S Dawan Landry
 

YosemiteSam

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jterrell;2927320 said:
OL: The big uglies are a big ugly as depth goes. This isn't a shock to anyone.
The starters can play and the backups can't. That isn't a change from last year however. And even if Brewster stayed healthy was he really going to make a big difference as a rookie. The biggest difference may be Holland being here day 1 but that won't be answered until we see Holland play beside 4 starters. Legit concern but not a bigger weakness than last year.
You're right. It's not any worse than last year, but the problem is; we're one injury from it becoming gargantuan sinkhole for the offense. Look at last year. Kosier went down and we stunk. As bad as it was, it got much worse once Adams injured his arm. Not only were we playing with backups, they were subpar for being backups.
jterrell;2927320 said:
DL: Canty for Igor is an even swap that may be more a plus with Canty hurting. Junior for Tank is hard to call because Tank himself admitted to being poor last year. The DL isn't great but it isn't paper thin either. They rotate in liberally and Marcus Dixon has shown flashes that make him intriguing if he gets called up from the PS.
I think we are far better off with Junior than with Tank. Tank couldn't hold the point of attack at NT. He kept getting pushed out of the way. I think Junior can do a better job. The only thing Tank had was he could apply more pressure to the QB. Something he didn't do often anyway. btw, I hope to god Marcus Dixon doesn't come off the PS to play. While he has ability, the kid is extremely raw and would be roadkill vs starters in the league.
 

YosemiteSam

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speedkilz88;2927366 said:
One good thing about the ILB depth problem. There are a four ILBs on the street that the Cowboys coaches know.

Matt Stewart
Matt Wilhelhm
Ryan Fowler
Rocky Boiman

Ryan Fowler was never a good ILB. The Cowboys like him because he was a good special teamer. I don't want him playing ILB for us.
 

skinsscalper

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RS12;2927513 said:
You like alot of people here over look the Austin/ Hurd durability issues. It has already come up in the pre-season. A good chance it is an issue during the season as well.

This was the one that caught my eye, too. Regardless of peoples' feelings about T.O., as far as on the field production, we are weaker at the position. As other people have opined, that MIGHT be better off for the whole team because a defense can't key on one player. As much as I disliked the release of T.O., I can give this theory some credence. The key is for these other players (not just WRs, because frankly as a WR unit alone, I have very little faith) to step up and seize the opportunities.

But, I digress. Back to the original thought. The injuries to Hurd and Austin before we even take our first regular season snap is discouraging to say the least. We are experiencing a bit of deja vu concerning both of these guys. The injuries with Austin and Hurd seem to be a recurring theme. Not good when you are trying to replace the production of "the player" with a host of other players. We can sing the praises of Witten all day long, but even he said that having T.O. on the field opened up a lot of things for him. Starting off the season with half of your staring WR corp gimpy (again) doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence that the plan will be long lasting or reliable.

One thing I do like is the fact that the Cowboys seem to be moving in the right direction as far as keeping the best players rather than hanging on to their pet cats. Ogletree making the squad, while cutting ties with Stanback is definitely a move in the right direction. There is a thread here in the Fan Zone about making bold predictions for the season. I haven't posted in it (yet) but I'll make my bold prediction right now. Ogletree is going to outplay either Hurd or Austin this year (and outside sliver of a chance of outplaying both). Whether it's injury related or some other factor. Romo trusts this kid. That's saying alot considering it took him 10 games and an off-season to feel the same thing about Roy Williams (and no this isn't a Roy Williams bashing session).
 

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Bluefin;2927354 said:
This is the group most of the worry hovers over.

The coaches gambled last year when they thought Kyle Kosier would only miss a few games and rolled the dice with Cory Procter.

Kosier's return was brief and Procter was soon victimized by opposing defenses. Montrae Holland took quite some time to acclimate and lasted only a few games before going down with injury.

Flozell Adams played through a couple of ailments and looked bad, the coaches would not risk playing the unknown Doug Free with the playoffs in the balance.

The '07 starters are all back now and there is little concern over them as a group. They know each other and work well together, Kosier inside with Andre Gurode is like having two centers to identify alignments and line responsibilities.

Depth should be better with Doug Free having a nice camp and pre-season. Is he a future starter, that remains to be seen, but he looks like he can handle a few games if the need arises.

I don't trust Pat McQuistan's feet at tackle, it's unfortunate he couldn't stay at guard, which is his best NFL position It will be interesting to see which player is our swing tackle, McQ has been in the past while also helping on kickoff returns.

Guard depth seems solid with Montrae Holland completely at ease in the scheme, recent addition Duke Preston, McQuistan if needed and Travis Bright on the JV team.

Preston is the reserve center, a spot Cory Procter also calls home for the time being. I don't think Procter will remain on the roster much longer, but maybe the staff wants an extra body.

Rookie Robert Brewster is on PUP and unlikely to help this year, but he seems to have already convinced Wade Phillips he's a future contributor.

Maybe he's a tackle, maybe a guard, that's to be determined, it's still nice to think we may have someone worth watching.

And whatever Doug Free might be, another left tackle would seem to be high priority next April.

We've missed on our share of offensive linemen in the recent past and it's hurt the team. Still, the starters look strong and the reserves are at least a step up from what we rolled out with last year.

Nice post.
 
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