Cowboys are loaded with 3-4 OLB personnel yet they run a 4-3 scheme?

[Cowboyny]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Agree, but the Joneses love their familiarity, and they liked Eberflus when he was here before. He "knows how things work around here."

 

[Chasing6]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment than it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Pretty sure that does not help our run D. Our Defense has been built to stop the pass. Plain and simple and it does not look like anything has really changed.

 

[FoxF]

I think we should have stuck with Zimmer, the defense played a lot better as the season went along and started to gel. Now we have a new defense for the players to learn adjust to and we are a team meant to win now.

 

[Chasing6]

I think we should have stuck with Zimmer, the defense played a lot better as the season went along and started to gel. Now we have a new defense for the players to learn adjust to and we are a team meant to win now.

Zimmer did not want to be here.

 

[FoxF]

Zimmer did not want to be here.

That’s true too, takes two to dance.

 

[gimmesix]

Going to go off Eberflus's 2021 Indianapolis defense because since that was his third year there, you have to assume that he had built what he wanted.

He had:

DE Tyquan Lewis 6-3, 267
DE Kwity Paye 6-3, 265
DE Kemoko Turay 6-5, 248
DE Al-Quadin Muhammad 6-4, 250
DE Isaac Rochell 6-4, 280
DE Ben Banogu 6-3, 252

So three at 250 or under and three at 265 or above, compared to two at 250 or under and five at 260 or above.

DT DeForest Buckner 6-7, 295
NT Grover Steward 6-3, 315
DT Chris Williams 6-2, 302
DT Taylor Stallworth 6-2, 300
NT Antwuan Woods 6-1, 307

So he had some bigger 3-techs than Osa, but in the range of Thomas and Akingbesote. His 1-techs, though, were smaller than what he has and has brought in here.

His starting linebackers were Zaire Franklin 6-0, 235 and Darius Leonard 6-2, 234, with Bobby Okereke 6-1, 235 mixed in.

Don't think we saw Eberflus use any 3-4 in Indy.

 

[crazyeddie]

Didn't Dallas switch to a 3-4 during the Parcell years?

They abandoned it before they could get the proper players for it to actually get good.

A 4-3 is a great defense,imho,if you get great players to operate it...there in lies the rub.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Without expressing a preference, there is a cost to switching from one style to the other. It can take years to swap out the players to get the scheme correct personnel. Assignments also have to be re-learned. It's a setback to continually bring in new DC's that favor different schemes.

Also, there is a grey area between the 2 styles, and often a hybrid style is used.

In the Cowboy's 4-3 in recent years- too often the DE's were not capable of run containment. Dallas has favored athletic speed rushers over power containment ends. This puts more pressure on the LB's to handle the run. This roster building flaw is evident in the results.

 

[75boyz]

Good post.
CFIH has discussed this as well.
Need the defensive ends though for the 3 man front line.
CFIH suggested Odiggy as one end but I'm not sure.
I suggested bulking Kneeland up just a bit to be the other.

The mixing and matching of LB groupings/packages could work but it all goes back to Flus being a 4-3 scheme guy.

But yes, sitting in the same old 4-3 base with the current personnel is a recipe for disaster against the run.
AGAIN.

 

[Chasing6]

Didn't Dallas switch to a 3-4 during the Parcell years?

They abandoned it before they could get the proper players for it to actually get good.

A 4-3 is a great defense,imho,if you get great players to operate it...there in lies the rub.

I believe the NFL is currently 50% between a 4-3 and 3-4. Challenge is the 3-4 is rarely used in college, so I would assume it is more, difficult to evaluate talent.

 

[CCBoy]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

The team attempts to hide game changers beyond forcing them upon an offense.

 

[Jarntt]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

It's not just a weight thing. Wheat and Turner for example aren't OLBers even in a 3-4 IMO. Our weakness on defense is our DTs, not by position but by talent. So you're going to start 3 of them now instead of 2? And our best one is Osa whose best fit is 4-3 3 tech so you're going to weaken him by making him a 3-4 DE? Your 3 NTs you list are a disappointing Mazi and two 7th rounders who have never played in an NFL game and may not make the team. And Mazi gets pushed all over the place in a 4-3, imagine him trying to hold up as a NT in a 3-4? The only DT that is a better fit for a 3-4 IMO is Thomas. We certainly have some players that could Make the switch, but we are not in a position yet to do so with this current roster.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Didn't Dallas switch to a 3-4 during the Parcell years?

They abandoned it before they could get the proper players for it to actually get good.

A 4-3 is a great defense,imho,if you get great players to operate it...there in lies the rub.

They ran a 3-4 with Wade and Parcells….

 

[Chasing6]

It's not just a weight thing. Wheat and Turner for example aren't OLBers even in a 3-4 IMO. Our weakness on defense is our DTs, not by position but by talent. So you're going to start 3 of them now instead of 2? And our best one is Osa whose best fit is 4-3 3 tech so you're going to weaken him by making him a 3-4 DE? Your 3 NTs you list are a disappointing Mazi and two 7th rounders who have never played in an NFL game and may not make the team. And Mazi gets pushed all over the place in a 4-3, imagine him trying to hold up as a NT in a 3-4? The only DT that is a better fit for a 3-4 IMO is Thomas. We certainly have some players that could Make the switch, but we are not in a position yet to do so with this current roster.

So what your saying is, we won't be able to stop the Tushpush.

 

[charron]

This is why they took Taco over TJ. With similar draft grades taco had the prototypical size. Parsons for his part wasn't drafted as a defensive end. Parsons is much like Jay Ratliff, small for the position but plays with a power and relentlessness of a much bigger player.

I agree with the overall premise and that Jerry specifically wants splash plays over sound scheme.

 

[75boyz]

It's not just a weight thing. Wheat and Turner for example aren't OLBers even in a 3-4 IMO. Our weakness on defense is our DTs, not by position but by talent. So you're going to start 3 of them now instead of 2? And our best one is Osa whose best fit is 4-3 3 tech so you're going to weaken him by making him a 3-4 DE? Your 3 NTs you list are a disappointing Mazi and two 7th rounders who have never played in an NFL game and may not make the team. And Mazi gets pushed all over the place in a 4-3, imagine him trying to hold up as a NT in a 3-4? The only DT that is a better fit for a 3-4 IMO is Thomas. We certainly have some players that could Make the switch, but we are not in a position yet to do so with this current roster.

Really good response of which I should have originally considered those elephant in the room NTs before making my first response.

Your reasoning, logic and player deficiency examples strongly support your case here.

Very nice post.
Maybe they aren't as close to a 3-4 as I thought.

 

[Cowboyny]

Going to go off Eberflus's 2021 Indianapolis defense because since that was his third year there, you have to assume that he had built what he wanted.

He had:

DE Tyquan Lewis 6-3, 267
DE Kwity Paye 6-3, 265
DE Kemoko Turay 6-5, 248
DE Al-Quadin Muhammad 6-4, 250
DE Isaac Rochell 6-4, 280
DE Ben Banogu 6-3, 252

So three at 250 or under and three at 265 or above, compared to two at 250 or under and five at 260 or above.

DT DeForest Buckner 6-7, 295
NT Grover Steward 6-3, 315
DT Chris Williams 6-2, 302
DT Taylor Stallworth 6-2, 300
NT Antwuan Woods 6-1, 307

So he had some bigger 3-techs than Osa, but in the range of Thomas and Akingbesote. His 1-techs, though, were smaller than what he has and has brought in here.

His starting linebackers were Zaire Franklin 6-0, 235 and Darius Leonard 6-2, 234, with Bobby Okereke 6-1, 235 mixed in.

Don't think we saw Eberflus use any 3-4 in Indy.

His NT's have been in that 310-315 range both at Indy and with Chicago. However, I think he does indeed target undersized ends cause he wants to get quick up the field pressure.

As for linebacker, he wants rangy backers who can go sideline to sideline. However, we do have some bigger backers here at the moment that should hold up against the run better.

 

[Cowboyny]

It's not just a weight thing. Wheat and Turner for example aren't OLBers even in a 3-4 IMO. Our weakness on defense is our DTs, not by position but by talent. So you're going to start 3 of them now instead of 2? And our best one is Osa whose best fit is 4-3 3 tech so you're going to weaken him by making him a 3-4 DE? Your 3 NTs you list are a disappointing Mazi and two 7th rounders who have never played in an NFL game and may not make the team. And Mazi gets pushed all over the place in a 4-3, imagine him trying to hold up as a NT in a 3-4? The only DT that is a better fit for a 3-4 IMO is Thomas. We certainly have some players that could Make the switch, but we are not in a position yet to do so with this current roster.

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

 

[Ranching]

Can't wait for the pads to come on.....