Cowboys are loaded with 3-4 OLB personnel yet they run a 4-3 scheme?

[5Stars]

Can't wait for the pads to come on.....

Maxi?

 

[fivetwos]

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

Sounds an awful lot like his some of his predecessors. Want push rushing DTs.

It’s all fine and well when you have a lead, but what happens when it’s time to stop the run and get off the field? See the Detroit and NO games from 2024 as small examples. Can’t expect to come out and get a lead on every team out of the gate, especially the better ones.

Bottom line is they need more talent, maybe more diverse talent at DT, but management seems to love edge rushers and cover corners, which may allow you to break away from the inferior teams with sacks and picks, but don’t do you a ton of good vs those who are willing to jam the ball down your throat and stay with it.

DT will be the downfall of the 2025 Cowboys. Promise. Nothing new. The refusal to fix it the frustrating part. They think it’s bad luck. Yeah ok.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

Most teams use pass rushers like Micah in a stand-up role anyway. Defenses today aren't "true" 3-4 schemes in the traditional sense but it is almost like a hybrid 4-3.

Having said that the Cowboys do have 3-4 personnel in place just as you said. The outside LB's can be Parsons and Ezeiruaku; plus Overshown when he gets back. The two middle LB's could be any combination of Liufau, Clark, Sanborn, and Murray.

As for the 3 man line, Osa and Solomon Thomas fit as the ends while Mazi and Toia can compete at nose tackle. It really would be an intriguing switch.

 

[Jarntt]

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

But he can't do that consistently. We will get crushed against the run if we play two of our 3techs plus a small DE like Micah and another Edge on early downs. Our LBers aren't exactly stout either. And if you look at Osa and Thomas they are both a little weaker against the run than they are as pass rushers. We don't have the horses for it. I don't disagree he may want t odd something like that, but he says over and over the first thing you need to do is stop the run and he won't be able to do that and play it that way

 

[JoeKing]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Good post. You make a good argument. With those things in mind, I'm curious how Eberflus operates this D.

Thanks for posing.

 

[visionary]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Said it before
Only way to justify paying Micah top dollar and taking EZ at 44 is to run a 3-4

 

[visionary]

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

This stupidity would not surprise me at all
Philly, Lions, GB, Wash will run us off the field

 

[Chasing6]

Really good response of which I should have originally considered those elephant in the room NTs before making my first response.

Your reasoning, logic and player deficiency examples strongly support your case here.

Very nice post.
Maybe they aren't as close to a 3-4 as I thought.

They appear to be stuck in the middle, which I would think is not a good place to be, and the results confirm it.

 

[CCBoy]

Maxi?

Football.

 

[Loso86]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

Its a different schedule coming too

 

[Ranching]

Maxi?

I'd like to stuff those down some throats!

 

[xwalker]

3-4 OLB's are usually in that 240-265 Range, where 4-3 DE's are in that 285-300 LB range.

Parsons-245
Fowler-267
Sam Williams-260
Kneeland-269
Donovan-248
Wheat-260
Turner-270

Toai-342 is the size of a typical 3-4 NT
Mazi Smith before the weight drop was close to the same weight
Rodgers-346

Osa-280 is your pure 4-3 under tackle
Thomas-295 fits a 3T in a 3-4 alignment

Akingbesote-315 is your ideal 5T, but could also play NT in a 4 man front.

Murray-240 is a big off the ball linebacker in today's game.
Marist-238
Sanborn-234

The Will linebackers are smaller, but those are the ones who the defense tries to keep untouched to make the tackle.

To me it is very strange that outside of Osa, their personnel is more tailored towards a 3-4 alignment then it is a 4-3 Front. Good coaches develop a scheme around their players strengths, not force a circle in a square hole. They have the personnel to effectively play multiple fronts, let's see if Eberflus get more creative then what we used to see under Marinelli. However, he wants his players to play fast and not overthink what to do.

4-3 DEs are not 300 pounds.
Myles Garrett 272
Bosa 266
DLaw about 270

3-4 DEs are generally in that 285+ range.

 

[xwalker]

Didn't Dallas switch to a 3-4 during the Parcell years?

They abandoned it before they could get the proper players for it to actually get good.

A 4-3 is a great defense,imho,if you get great players to operate it...there in lies the rub.

They were 3-4 from 2005 thru 2012.

Parcells kept Zimmer's 4-3 for 2003 and 2004.

Wade and Ryan were 3-4.

In 2013 they brought in Kiffin/Marinelli with 4-3.

 

[gimmesix]

His NT's have been in that 310-315 range both at Indy and with Chicago. However, I think he does indeed target undersized ends cause he wants to get quick up the field pressure.

As for linebacker, he wants rangy backers who can go sideline to sideline. However, we do have some bigger backers here at the moment that should hold up against the run better.

I don't think it is necessarily a preference for undersized ends, but more of the fact that he wants that quick up-field pressure.

 

[xwalker]

I think Eberflus wants to play 2 3T's most of the time rather than a traditional 4-3 1T. He wants his DT's to fire off the snap and get up the field quickly. A player like Mazi Smith is going to be a very poor fit in his system. Wouldn't surprise me if Thomas plays a bigger role then Smith in this scheme.

How is that different than Dan Quinn?

 

[gtb1943]

It's not just a weight thing. Wheat and Turner for example aren't OLBers even in a 3-4 IMO. Our weakness on defense is our DTs, not by position but by talent. So you're going to start 3 of them now instead of 2? And our best one is Osa whose best fit is 4-3 3 tech so you're going to weaken him by making him a 3-4 DE? Your 3 NTs you list are a disappointing Mazi and two 7th rounders who have never played in an NFL game and may not make the team. And Mazi gets pushed all over the place in a 4-3, imagine him trying to hold up as a NT in a 3-4? The only DT that is a better fit for a 3-4 IMO is Thomas. We certainly have some players that could Make the switch, but we are not in a position yet to do so with this current roster.

its more a type of player then weight. For example you want a NT to be a fireplug basically; short and stout so as to anchor the line. 6-1 and 310 of so works well.
But if you go taller you have to add real weight; and honestly anyone above 6-3 is going to start to have problems with centers getting under him.

 

[Coogiguy03]

Good post.
CFIH has discussed this as well.
Need the defensive ends though for the 3 man front line.
CFIH suggested Odiggy as one end but I'm not sure.
I suggested bulking Kneeland up just a bit to be the other.

The mixing and matching of LB groupings/packages could work but it all goes back to Flus being a 4-3 scheme guy.

But yes, sitting in the same old 4-3 base with the current personnel is a recipe for disaster against the run.
AGAIN.

I say put Kneeland and Osa at the 3-4 DE spots

 

[cald0d30s0]

They ran a 3-4 with Wade and Parcells….

And with Rob Ryan.

 

[Cowboyny]

How is that different than Dan Quinn?

It is a very similar scheme, think Eberflus likes more size within the interior and isn't as aggresive.

 

[Cowboyny]

4-3 DEs are not 300 pounds.
Myles Garrett 272
Bosa 266
DLaw about 270

3-4 DEs are generally in that 285+ range.

It is far to say 270 range is more the ideal weight. In the 3-4, you want bigger weight lineman. We have Parsons at 240-245 which is very light for the position.