Cowboys Defensive Alignments

[gimmesix]

I consider it a Big 4-3 or a 5-2 more than a 3-4. Our DEs aren't really playing linebacker as they are not dropping into coverage. We have Crawford at RDE, Poe at DT/NT, Hill at DT/3-tech and Lawrence at LDE, with Aldon Smith as a DPR.

I'm not really pleased with the alignment only because it seems more run-oriented with the three DTs in the there (even though Crawford is playing end) instead of getting the three pass rushers on the field at the same time by having Griffen in the RDE spot.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Wasn't happy about the change AT ALL, as I recall.

It was tied up with his unhappiness with his contract, and potentially failing at the new position and needing a new contract, or getting cut.

Ellis was unhappy about the business side, and the risk to his business side from a change in position.

 

[Bullflop]

Sadly, it took someone like Jaylon Smith to cast the first stone. Bellyaching for public consumption is no way to resolve team problems. It only serves to exacerbate something that needs to be addressed by those qualified to deal with it on an effective level. He's just hurting himself and his team, in turn. If he's unable to absorb Nolan's defense, perhaps this team needs to find someone who can. The main thing is to deal with it without causing a distraction. Discussing the matter in house would be far more appropriate than going public with team problems. Jaylon doesn't seem the brightest bulb in the room.

 

[Bullflop]

My guess is that DLaw is playing 2 point because he was told to but he isn't comfortable with it yet. I get the scheme idea behind it but I do like going back to mostly 3 point because it plays to the strengths of DLaw and Griffen so much more.

Both DLaw and Griffen stated lately that they'll revert back to the 3-point stance vs. the Seahawks. I would only assume they've gotten the OK from McCarthy to do so. If not, maybe they should have. We'll see if it turns out to be what they claim will occcur on Sunday. It should prove interesting.

 

[DogFace]

The Cowboys are running a multiple front defense.

Also, they often use a 4-3 defense but with 1 or both DEs standing up.
- The alignment is exactly the same as a 4-3 or 4-2-5 regardless of whether one or both DEs stand-up.

The majority of the snaps vs the Falcons were 4-3 (or 4-2-5) but with the DEs standing up.
- Sometimes in that same alignment, one DE puts his hand down.
- That makes it look like a 3-4 but it's not really.
- If one DE is more than a few inches outside of an OT, then it's not really a 3-4.

A true 3-4 has 3 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs.
- They might be slightly outside on occasion but generally the DL are head up on the OTs or to the inside).
- A true 4-3 only has 2 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs (The DTs).
- This is the reason that the 3-4 is really a run defense alignment.

Alignments most used by Cowboys in the Falcons game (these are not in order):

4-3 with 2 stand-up DEs.
4-3 with 1 stand-up DE.
3-4 (on run downs)
4-2-5 Nickel with various combinations of stand-up and hand-down DEs.​

DLaw/Griffen are different than Aldon Smith.
- Aldon Smith generally plays LB in 4-3 alignments.
- DLaw/Griffen never play as a 4-3 LB.

DLaw/Griffen

4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE
3-4 OLB​

Aldon Smith

4-3 OLB
3-4 OLB
4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE​

Most snaps with Aldon Smith as a DE (stand-up or hand-down) are in Nickel.
- He plays OLB in in the 4-3 regardless of whether the DEs are stand-up or hand-down.

I think Griffen and DLaw had the option on many snaps to play standing up or with their hand down.
- In those situations Griffen has opted to play with his hand down far more often than DLaw.
- That makes me think that DLaw somewhat likes standing up.
- I "think" that as long as 1 DE is standing up that Nolan is OK with the other one having his hand down.

Do you know how many snaps Griffen, D law, and Smith played together?

 

[DuncanIso]

Xwalker knows his football.

Impressive breakdown of the D.

 

[Majic]

Both DLaw and Griffen stated lately that they'll revert back to the 3-point stance vs. the Seahawks. I would only assume they've gotten the OK from McCarthy to do so. If not, maybe they should have. We'll see if it turns out to be what they claim will occcur on Sunday. It should prove interesting.

Not sure D.Law has said this.
Too many excuses from players. Hybrid DEF is the way to go. Or do we want to go back to the days of passing on TJ Watt because he's not great in a 4-3 scheme?

 

[J-man]

Snacks Harrison is looking for a team. We should go grab him asap.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ex-lions-dt-damon-harrison-151900883.html

 

[fivetwos]

The Cowboys are running a multiple front defense.

Also, they often use a 4-3 defense but with 1 or both DEs standing up.
- The alignment is exactly the same as a 4-3 or 4-2-5 regardless of whether one or both DEs stand-up.

The majority of the snaps vs the Falcons were 4-3 (or 4-2-5) but with the DEs standing up.
- Sometimes in that same alignment, one DE puts his hand down.
- That makes it look like a 3-4 but it's not really.
- If one DE is more than a few inches outside of an OT, then it's not really a 3-4.

A true 3-4 has 3 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs.
- They might be slightly outside on occasion but generally the DL are head up on the OTs or to the inside).
- A true 4-3 only has 2 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs (The DTs).
- This is the reason that the 3-4 is really a run defense alignment.

Alignments most used by Cowboys in the Falcons game (these are not in order):

4-3 with 2 stand-up DEs.
4-3 with 1 stand-up DE.
3-4 (on run downs)
4-2-5 Nickel with various combinations of stand-up and hand-down DEs.​

DLaw/Griffen are different than Aldon Smith.
- Aldon Smith generally plays LB in 4-3 alignments.
- DLaw/Griffen never play as a 4-3 LB.

DLaw/Griffen

4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE
3-4 OLB​

Aldon Smith

4-3 OLB
3-4 OLB
4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE​

Most snaps with Aldon Smith as a DE (stand-up or hand-down) are in Nickel.
- He plays OLB in in the 4-3 regardless of whether the DEs are stand-up or hand-down.

I think Griffen and DLaw had the option on many snaps to play standing up or with their hand down.
- In those situations Griffen has opted to play with his hand down far more often than DLaw.
- That makes me think that DLaw somewhat likes standing up.
- I "think" that as long as 1 DE is standing up that Nolan is OK with the other one having his hand down.

I don't know XO anywhere near this level, but it sure does appear that Nolan prefers the 34 look at least (even if it isnt) by having the outside guys stand up most of the time.

I'm sure you're right as to what it IS, but it sure does LOOK like a 34, and I cant recall a single play where the alignment looked like your conventional 43.

I'm confused here as to if he is showing multiple looks, or is taking fragments from each and trying to mesh it together somehow.

It would stand to reason that youd want them to be able to run either/or, not some combo of each at once.

That make any sense?

 

[Bullflop]

Not sure D.Law has said this.
Too many excuses from players. Hybrid DEF is the way to go. Or do we want to go back to the days of passing on TJ Watt because he's not great in a 4-3 scheme?

Both Lawrence and Griffen have commented on their preference to returning to their 3-point stances lately. In fact, it must have given Mike McCarthy something to consider, since they both will be returning to their customary preference on Sunday. MM has acknowledged in the past that he leans to adjusting the schemes to suit the players, rather than the other way around. This isn't necessarily a permanent plan but rather an adjustment to bring out the best in his players, at least, for the time being.

That doesn't mean to say future drafts will exclude taking the best players, however. MM has stated emphatically in the past that he's all for taking the most talented players and adjusting to them in order to extract their best qualities on the field. It's one of the biggest reasons why Cowboys fans have taken to him as well they have.

By the way, welcome to Cowboys Zone -- hoping to see more of you in the future.

 

[MRV52]

Snacks Harrison is looking for a team. We should go grab him asap.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ex-lions-dt-damon-harrison-151900883.html

He is visiting Seattle next week, and other teams that are interested are Bears, Packers and Bengals.

 

[Future]

The one thing you missed was the team looking better against the run, which is very important. You cannot bring those pressure packages if you don't stop the run. We have plenty of legit pressure players, give them some time and they will start hitting home.

Looks to me like they're two-gapping a lot more, regardless of the front.

You're not going to get a passrush when you do that.

 

[Cowboyny]

Looks to me like they're two-gapping a lot more, regardless of the front.

You're not going to get a passrush when you do that.

Two gapping is usually associated with playing the 3-4, in which the edge rushers apply most of the pressures. Problem is, we do not have 3-4 personnel. Aldon fits, but not DLaw and Griffen who are more traditional 4-3 End's. I expect some changes happening this week to help create more pressure up front.

 

[DanA]

I don't mind the two gapping.

I think we've done it mostly on run downs and it's been pretty effective. It's the 2nd and 8's when you've got either Lawrence or Griffen (or both) standing. That's when IMO we should be playing a more traditional 4-3 with our edge guys with their hand in the dirt and occasionally some stunts. Also, we've had D-linemen drop into coverage something like 10-15 times (I'm counting half a dozen or so by A.Smith). I don't like those ever.

 

[xwalker]

Do you know how many snaps Griffen, D law, and Smith played together?

I have not counted but it is a low number. Generally only when Aldon Smith is a 4-3 LB (regardless of DEs standing up or hand down).

 

[Frosty]

The Cowboys are running a multiple front defense.

Also, they often use a 4-3 defense but with 1 or both DEs standing up.
- The alignment is exactly the same as a 4-3 or 4-2-5 regardless of whether one or both DEs stand-up.

The majority of the snaps vs the Falcons were 4-3 (or 4-2-5) but with the DEs standing up.
- Sometimes in that same alignment, one DE puts his hand down.
- That makes it look like a 3-4 but it's not really.
- If one DE is more than a few inches outside of an OT, then it's not really a 3-4.

A true 3-4 has 3 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs.
- They might be slightly outside on occasion but generally the DL are head up on the OTs or to the inside).
- A true 4-3 only has 2 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs (The DTs).
- This is the reason that the 3-4 is really a run defense alignment.

Alignments most used by Cowboys in the Falcons game (these are not in order):

4-3 with 2 stand-up DEs.
4-3 with 1 stand-up DE.
3-4 (on run downs)
4-2-5 Nickel with various combinations of stand-up and hand-down DEs.​

DLaw/Griffen are different than Aldon Smith.
- Aldon Smith generally plays LB in 4-3 alignments.
- DLaw/Griffen never play as a 4-3 LB.

DLaw/Griffen

4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE
3-4 OLB​

Aldon Smith

4-3 OLB
3-4 OLB
4-3 or 4-2-5 hand-down DE
4-3 or 4-2-5 stand-up DE​

Most snaps with Aldon Smith as a DE (stand-up or hand-down) are in Nickel.
- He plays OLB in in the 4-3 regardless of whether the DEs are stand-up or hand-down.

I think Griffen and DLaw had the option on many snaps to play standing up or with their hand down.
- In those situations Griffen has opted to play with his hand down far more often than DLaw.
- That makes me think that DLaw somewhat likes standing up.
- I "think" that as long as 1 DE is standing up that Nolan is OK with the other one having his hand down.

I guess the bigger question is which alignment are they most productive at......

 

[xwalker]

I don't mind the two gapping.

I think we've done it mostly on run downs and it's been pretty effective. It's the 2nd and 8's when you've got either Lawrence or Griffen (or both) standing. That's when IMO we should be playing a more traditional 4-3 with our edge guys with their hand in the dirt and occasionally some stunts. Also, we've had D-linemen drop into coverage something like 10-15 times (I'm counting half a dozen or so by A.Smith). I don't like those ever.

Aldon Smith is not playing the same position as DLaw or Griffen.

When they play a 4-3, Aldon Smith is a LB.
- DLaw/Griffen never play as a 4-3 LB.

When Aldon Smith plays as a 4-3 LB, he is replaced what would have been a player like Damian Wilson in Marinelli's defense.
- You wouldn't be worried about Wilson dropping into coverage.

 

[eromeopolk]

Go tell the 80's Chicago Bears, 2000 Ravens after they got Nolan out of there, 60-90's Cowboys and the 2003 Cowboys if the 4-3 is best against the run.

To run a true 3/4 your MLB take on OL and your OLBs crash inside. The 4-3 has your DL tie up OL so your LBs can flow to the play and tackle.

Remember Tom Landry invented 2 4/3 defenses to stop the run (4-3 and Flex), and Jimmy Johnson invented the attack 4-3 using speed at LB, DL penetrating to rush the passer on the way tackle the RB, and then let speed at LB clean up and tackle.

Mike Nolan was not as successful as you think as a DC in Baltimore. The Ravens defenses you remember going to Super Bowls were 4-3 defenses with huge DTs and their success was after Nolan left. Let George Edwards run this defense and you will be just what it was in Dallas before he left and what it has been in Minnesota for the last +7-10 years.

 

[xwalker]

I guess the bigger question is which alignment are they most productive at......

They choose the alignments based on the offensive personnel and the down/distance.

 

[xwalker]

Go tell the 80's Chicago Bears, 2000 Ravens after they got Nolan out of there, 60-90's Cowboys and the 2003 Cowboys if the 4-3 is best against the run.

To run a true 3/4 your MLB take on OL and your OLBs crash inside. The 4-3 has your DL tie up OL so your LBs can flow to the play and tackle.

Remember Tom Landry invented 2 4/3 defenses to stop the run (4-3 and Flex), and Jimmy Johnson invented the attack 4-3 using speed at LB, DL penetrating to rush the passer on the way tackle the RB, and then let speed at LB clean up and tackle.

Mike Nolan was not as successful as you think as a DC in Baltimore. The Ravens defenses you remember going to Super Bowls were 4-3 defenses with huge DTs and their success was after Nolan left. Let George Edwards run this defense and you will be just what it was in Dallas before he left and what it has been in Minnesota for the last +7-10 years.

Wrong.

In the 3-4 there are 3 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs.

In the 4-3 there are 2 DL between the outside shoulders of the OTs.

Which on of those sounds like a stronger run defense?