Cowboys draft decision making process

[Verdict]

I have been listening to the press conferences and any other info I can get on the Cowboys draft process. One of the things that really strike me as odd is something that the Cowboys keep discussing about who to choose at a certain point in the draft.

I mean let’s look at this more closely.... you spend all your time, effort, resources etc to put together a draft board for a reason. Regardless of who goes where, you know who your top rated player on your board is....so you would think that’s where the analysis would start and stop.

But the Cowboys seem to let coaches override the board and select a player based on whim, or who has been drafted in front of them, etc. About the only time this makes sense is if you have two very closely graded players and you think the higher rated player will slide to you and the slightly lower rated player will not slide to you.

Anything else means you have done a poor job of board assembly. I find this somewhat maddening.

 

[gimmesix]

Actually, from what I understand, grading by the Cowboys isn't done the way you are presenting it. Dallas groups players in tiers because they don't feel that there is enough separating them to really place one over the other. There may be a numerical ranking, but for all intents and purposes, they might not see a real difference between the 66th guy and the 86th. Now, the tiers can range from one player who is considered better than all the rest to possibly 100, especially when it gets later in the draft.

So when it comes to their pick, you take a player from the highest tier remaining on your board. I think they made an exception of that with Cox, who was rated higher but wasn't taken in the third because we'd taken a linebacker with our first-round pick. But players like Osa and Ghoulson were likely in the same tier as other players available. So you grab Osa because of need at 75 when he might be "ranked" the 100th player instead of the 75th player not at a position of need because they are essentially considered to be on the same level.

If you view it that way, then there will always be a discussion about who to choose from the best tier available.

 

[DandyDon52]

Jones boys are just smarter than the rest of us and whole nfl lol.
edit
lets just make it they are the smartest 2 guys in the whole world !

 

[visionary]

Actually, from what I understand, grading by the Cowboys isn't done the way you are presenting it. Dallas groups players in tiers because they don't feel that there is enough separating them to really place one over the other. There may be a numerical ranking, but for all intents and purposes, they might not see a real difference between the 66th guy and the 86th. Now, the tiers can range from one player who is considered better than all the rest to possibly 100, especially when it gets later in the draft.

So when it comes to their pick, you take a player from the highest tier remaining on your board. I think they made an exception of that with Cox, who was rated higher but wasn't taken in the third because we'd taken a linebacker with our first-round pick. But players like Osa and Ghoulson were likely in the same tier as other players available. So you grab Osa because of need at 75 when he might be "ranked" the 100th player instead of the 75th player not at a position of need because they are essentially considered to be on the same level.

If you view it that way, then there will always be a discussion about who to choose from the best tier available.

yep that sounds nice but if a process led you to rank Wright and Cox in the same tier then that process is broken

 

[lockster]

yep that sounds nice but if a process led you to rank Wright and Cox in the same tier then that process is broken

Wright gets you lost picks, no matter how you view him. If 99/100 services rank him a seventh rounder and you draft him in third, you have cost urself draft capital you could have used on a better player, period. You could have traded all the way back to the sixth round while picking up a player in the third still, high fourth for sure, then traded the extra low fourth for a high fifth and low fifth or high sixth, etc. That way , you can still get him, but pick up extra picks. Wright was totally insane pick in the third round. No matter how he turns out. It was dumb. He could have been secured no problem in sixth round.

 

[CWR]

I have been listening to the press conferences and any other info I can get on the Cowboys draft process. One of the things that really strike me as odd is something that the Cowboys keep discussing about who to choose at a certain point in the draft.

I mean let’s look at this more closely.... you spend all your time, effort, resources etc to put together a draft board for a reason. Regardless of who goes where, you know who your top rated player on your board is....so you would think that’s where the analysis would start and stop.

But the Cowboys seem to let coaches override the board and select a player based on whim, or who has been drafted in front of them, etc. About the only time this makes sense is if you have two very closely graded players and you think the higher rated player will slide to you and the slightly lower rated player will not slide to you.

Anything else means you have done a poor job of board assembly. I find this somewhat maddening.

I haven't heard the press conference you're talking about but I sure up it's not "on a whim."

I also believe it's to an extent. For example that decision was made with our 3rd pick of the 3rd round. I doubt coaches have as much influence early on. If the ranking our similar I can see it, but not like what we experienced in round 3.

 

[UncleOscar]

This piece by David Moore is quite telling and damning:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/david-moore-on-organizational-issues-on-defense.477533/

 

[starfan1]

yep that sounds nice but if a process led you to rank Wright and Cox in the same tier then that process is broken

Listening to the fan it sounds like Wright was a coaches pick. I believe they said Quinn wanted him

 

[Risen Star]

Actually, from what I understand, grading by the Cowboys isn't done the way you are presenting it. Dallas groups players in tiers because they don't feel that there is enough separating them to really place one over the other. There may be a numerical ranking, but for all intents and purposes, they might not see a real difference between the 66th guy and the 86th. Now, the tiers can range from one player who is considered better than all the rest to possibly 100, especially when it gets later in the draft.

So when it comes to their pick, you take a player from the highest tier remaining on your board. I think they made an exception of that with Cox, who was rated higher but wasn't taken in the third because we'd taken a linebacker with our first-round pick. But players like Osa and Ghoulson were likely in the same tier as other players available. So you grab Osa because of need at 75 when he might be "ranked" the 100th player instead of the 75th player not at a position of need because they are essentially considered to be on the same level.

If you view it that way, then there will always be a discussion about who to choose from the best tier available.

Seems like you two are headed towards a fist fight.

 

[GroundZero1970]

Wright was a freebie pick. We got an extra 3rd in trade down. So a gamble on an EXTRA pick is ok by me.

 

[visionary]

Wright was a freebie pick. We got an extra 3rd in trade down. So a gamble on an EXTRA pick is ok by me.

 

[superonyx]

The cowboys do what every other team does with the draft.
All teams need to adjust the plans on the fly based on who is left on the board and how a player ranks on their internal draft board. In the case of the 1st round, they were ready for the possibility of both CB's being gone. Nothing wrong with sliding back 2 spots and drafting the guy you would have drafted at 10 anyway.

Fans like to get upset when the team doesn't have a player rated where the fan has them rated. So you get all of these threads like this one where fans need to point the finger at some level of incompetence towards the organization and the process.

The notion that the cowboys are in the war room playing beer pong and the winner of that rounds gets to pick the next player is just goofy.

Just accept that the team felt a certain player or position graded out differently that you had them graded. You probably watched youtube videos of a few prospects and listened to a few mouthpieces leading up to the draft. They know what they are trying to do more than you do.

 

[ThreeandOut]

The choice at 99 was between Wright and Cox. They ended up with both players but that was more the product of luck than design. If the objective is to get both players, then you really need to ask yourself which one is more likely to be available with your next pick. All 32 teams probably had Cox rated higher than Wright. The Cowboys probably rated Wright higher than at least 30 other teams. So if you want both players, the percentages say you should take Cox at 99 then Wright with your next pick in the 4th round.

 

[Montanalo]

Things I wonder about -

With all the emphasis on "length" and "size" being integral to Dan Quinn's scheme, what happens in 2 years when Quinn is no longer with Dallas (just a guess on my part).

What happened to selecting the most talented players available and adjusting the scheme to them?

 

[Doomsday101]

I have been listening to the press conferences and any other info I can get on the Cowboys draft process. One of the things that really strike me as odd is something that the Cowboys keep discussing about who to choose at a certain point in the draft.

I mean let’s look at this more closely.... you spend all your time, effort, resources etc to put together a draft board for a reason. Regardless of who goes where, you know who your top rated player on your board is....so you would think that’s where the analysis would start and stop.

But the Cowboys seem to let coaches override the board and select a player based on whim, or who has been drafted in front of them, etc. About the only time this makes sense is if you have two very closely graded players and you think the higher rated player will slide to you and the slightly lower rated player will not slide to you.

Anything else means you have done a poor job of board assembly. I find this somewhat maddening.

Gil Brandt had a saying if there is a prospect you really like go get him. I don't think any selection was based on a whim I think Quinn was looking for the size and certain skill sets he feels is important to what he wants to do. If you have a CB who is 5'09 and ranks higher on the board but the DC is putting in place a system where he wants bigger and more physical CB then it makes no sense taking a player you know will not fit in to what you are trying to do.

 

[ThreeandOut]

Things I wonder about -

With all the emphasis on "length" and "size" being integral to Dan Quinn's scheme, what happens in 2 years when Quinn is no longer with Dallas (just a guess on my part).

What happened to selecting the most talented players available and adjusting the scheme to them?

I think most of the top picks could pay in other schemes. It probably these 6'4" CBs that would not survive a new coaching staff.

 

[nobody]

Things I wonder about -

With all the emphasis on "length" and "size" being integral to Dan Quinn's scheme, what happens in 2 years when Quinn is no longer with Dallas (just a guess on my part).

What happened to selecting the most talented players available and adjusting the scheme to them?

Quinn said in his presser that he's all about finding out what the players are good at and showcasing that rather than what they can't do or forcing them to fit into something else. So he knows about adjusting to players. That doesn't mean he shouldn't pick players that are capable and just happen to have qualities he thinks are beneficial to what they're trying to accomplish.

 

[Doomsday101]

Quinn said in his presser that he's all about finding out what the players are good at and showcasing that rather than what they can't do or forcing them to fit into something else. So he knows about adjusting to players. That doesn't mean he shouldn't pick players that are capable and just happen to have qualities he thinks are beneficial to what they're trying to accomplish.

I agree. For years people here complained about taking square pegs and trying to force them into round holes. Quinn is looking for guys to play within his defense. Clearly the pressure is on him to take these guys and produce and help this team win

 

[Creeper]

The cowboys do what every other team does with the draft.
All teams need to adjust the plans on the fly based on who is left on the board and how a player ranks on their internal draft board. In the case of the 1st round, they were ready for the possibility of both CB's being gone. Nothing wrong with sliding back 2 spots and drafting the guy you would have drafted at 10 anyway.

Fans like to get upset when the team doesn't have a player rated where the fan has them rated. So you get all of these threads like this one where fans need to point the finger at some level of incompetence towards the organization and the process.

The notion that the cowboys are in the war room playing beer pong and the winner of that rounds gets to pick the next player is just goofy.

Just accept that the team felt a certain player or position graded out differently that you had them graded. You probably watched youtube videos of a few prospects and listened to a few mouthpieces leading up to the draft. They know what they are trying to do more than you do.

I don't know that fans get "upset". I think we all come here to express our opinions and if we think they should have picked a different guy at a certain point we say so. We all want the same thing - for the Cowboys to win. As for the last comment, we all know that there are times when the fans have been right and the scouts wrong about certain players. There were plenty of Cowboys fans who panned the Taco pick and they were right. That's just one example.

 

[Aven8]

Let’s not act like Quinn is some crappy DC or something. He coached the top D in the league for two years straight and won the SB. Pete had a lot to do with it but not all of it. He than left to be a HC and had a 28 point lead in the SB. It was a dramatic loss, but he made it. At this point as a fan I would take a SB loss! My point is Quinn has the skins to pick a few players for his D. It doesn’t matter if Atlanta’s defense was bad last year. That’s an entirely different situation we know nothing about.