Cowboys LB Data

Nightman

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Tackles per start:
Dekoda Watson 17.14
Andrew Gachkar 15.00
Sean Lee 9.19
Jasper Brinkley 7.52
Anthony Hitchens 6.82
Rolando McClain 6.54
Justin Durant 6.45
Keith Rivers 5.82

Thanks for showing the actual stats. I wasn't praising Brinkley and Gachkar as stars, just saying that he was overselling the actual production from Carter and Durant. People remember INTs from LBs, but it is the tackles that tell the story.
 

BAT

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The primary reason that I posted the stats was to look at the games played/missed.

Gachkar and Brinkley have been active for about 98% of all possible games. Watson is next at 88% and most of his missed games came after he joined the Cowboys mid-season. I don't know if all of those were due to injury or him just not knowing the scheme well enough to be active.

Active games played can be misleading. Active for what, end of bench or STs? We are trying to project their success as LBs, starting LBs hopefully.
 

BAT

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Thanks for showing the actual stats. I wasn't praising Brinkley and Gachkar as stars, just saying that he was overselling the actual production from Carter and Durant. People remember INTs from LBs, but it is the tackles that tell the story.

Those tackle stats are skewed. Look at the actual tackles per season. Lee, Durant, Ro are head and shoulders more productive than any of the newcomers. Don't look at averages, look at the actual production per season and the players' roles on their respective teams.

Now do I hope that Marinelli can have a magical effect (he has before) on players that are ultra athletic but have not been able to translate these abilities to the field, of course I do. I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. But let's not fool ourselves, the better LBs are Lee, Durant and Ro. Brinkley would be trail at the 4 spot.
 

Sportsbabe

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Those tackle stats are skewed. Look at the actual tackles per season. Lee, Durant, Ro are head and shoulders more productive than any of the newcomers. Don't look at averages, look at the actual production per season and the players' roles on their respective teams.

Now do I hope that Marinelli can have a magical effect (he has before) on players that are ultra athletic but have not been able to translate these abilities to the field, of course I do. I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. But let's not fool ourselves, the better LBs are Lee, Durant and Ro. Brinkley would be trail at the 4 spot.

Agree about the Marinelli factor and the Cowboys fan first. All good points.
 

xwalker

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Those tackle stats are skewed. Look at the actual tackles per season. Lee, Durant, Ro are head and shoulders more productive than any of the newcomers. Don't look at averages, look at the actual production per season and the players' roles on their respective teams.

Now do I hope that Marinelli can have a magical effect (he has before) on players that are ultra athletic but have not been able to translate these abilities to the field, of course I do. I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. But let's not fool ourselves, the better LBs are Lee, Durant and Ro. Brinkley would be trail at the 4 spot.

You can't compare tackles per season if they didn't start the same number of games.

Nobody is saying the new guys are better, but they are more likely to be a available than Lee/Durant.

They could have re-signed Durant but he just can't stay healthy.
 

BAT

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You can't compare tackles per season if they didn't start the same number of games.

Nobody is saying the new guys are better, but they are more likely to be a available than Lee/Durant.

They could have re-signed Durant but he just can't stay healthy.

Comparing tackles per start is more misleading than comparing tackles for season or Games Started. Because guys like Gachkar and Watson are primarily STers and would inflate their tackle numbers with ST tackles. Lee, Durant and Ro are not STers. Availability is important but you are using this stat to show their availability is also misleading, because they have been primarily available for Special Teams, not on Defense.

Nevermind these stats do not show explosive plays, which is a high indicator of productivity and game changing play. If you seriously believe that 17 and 15 tackles per start is sustainable then both Gachkar and Watson are sure fire HOFers. And I can guarantee neither will be available for that honor, elite athleticism and all.
 

Nightman

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Those tackle stats are skewed. Look at the actual tackles per season. Lee, Durant, Ro are head and shoulders more productive than any of the newcomers. Don't look at averages, look at the actual production per season and the players' roles on their respective teams.

Now do I hope that Marinelli can have a magical effect (he has before) on players that are ultra athletic but have not been able to translate these abilities to the field, of course I do. I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost. But let's not fool ourselves, the better LBs are Lee, Durant and Ro. Brinkley would be trail at the 4 spot.

Dallas let Carter and Durant walk and haven't made a hard sell to McClain. They moved quickly on Rivers, Brinkley and Gachkar. I think that says a lot about how much they value those players and the position in general.
 

BAT

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Dallas let Carter and Durant walk and haven't made a hard sell to McClain. They moved quickly on Rivers, Brinkley and Gachkar. I think that says a lot about how much they value those players and the position in general.

Of course Cowboys valued Durant and Carter, they just could not afford them. They could afford Rivers, Brinkley and Gachkar. Marinelli values the LB position more than Jimmy Johnson did. Marinelli's defense is more reliant on high performance at the LB position than Jimmy's did. Jimmy placed higher value on DL.

Similar to Garrett trying to keep Murray because he absolutely valued the player. At the end of the day, Cowboys just could not afford his price tag. Same with Durant, Carter and perhaps Ro. Correlation does not imply causation.
 

Nightman

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Of course Cowboys valued Durant and Carter, they just could not afford them. They could afford Rivers, Brinkley and Gachkar. Marinelli values the LB position more than Jimmy Johnson did. Marinelli's defense is more reliant on high performance at the LB position than Jimmy's did. Jimmy placed higher value on DL.

Similar to Garrett trying to keep Murray because he absolutely valued the player. At the end of the day, Cowboys just could not afford his price tag. Same with Durant, Carter and perhaps Ro. Correlation does not imply causation.

Dallas could easily afford Carter 4/17m and Durant 3/10.8m. They chose not to match.

Brinkley 2/6.5m and Gachkar 2/5.2m aren't minimum deals either.
 

BAT

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Dallas could easily afford Carter 4/17m and Durant 3/10.8m. They chose not to match.

Brinkley 2/6.5m and Gachkar 2/5.2m aren't minimum deals either.

Those deals are significantly different. Especially the guarantees.
 

Sportsbabe

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Of course Cowboys valued Durant and Carter, they just could not afford them. They could afford Rivers, Brinkley and Gachkar. Marinelli values the LB position more than Jimmy Johnson did. Marinelli's defense is more reliant on high performance at the LB position than Jimmy's did. Jimmy placed higher value on DL.

Similar to Garrett trying to keep Murray because he absolutely valued the player. At the end of the day, Cowboys just could not afford his price tag. Same with Durant, Carter and perhaps Ro. Correlation does not imply causation.

Jason values the QB and offensive line. If the RB follows his assignments, is dependable and disciplined, and loves football, Jason is good with that. He's going to see who separates them selves before the season starts.
 

Nightman

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Those deals are significantly different. Especially the guarantees.

None of the guarantees were that big and they all could be gone after this year.
Carter 4.2m
Durant 3m
Brinkley 2m
Gachkar 1.2m
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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I'm not making it up. Watson and Gachkar are not even starters and have been in the league at least 5 seasons. Watson about 8 seasons. Durant was a starter with Jax, with Detroit and with Dallas. Carter has been a starter since his second year with Dallas. In just 4 seasons, Carter's best season in tackles surpasses River's best season in tackles. Comparatively, Carter and Rivers have equal amount of total sacks, Carter easily has more career INTs all with Rivers playing 2 more seasons than Carter.

Durant and Lee are the only LBs with 100 plus tackle seasons. Brinkley's best season, he had 90 plus tackles. Carter and Ro also only have one 90 plus tackle season. Ro does have 2 other seasons with 80 plus tackles, no 80 plus tackle seasons for either Brinkley or Carter. Rivers' best seasons were his first 2 years in league then struggled for starts the next 4 seasons. Brinkley became a starter his 3rd season in Minny, next year went to AZ and rode bench for a season before returning to start at Minny last season.

Durant is undersized and gets hurt like it.
 

Woods

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None of the guarantees were that big and they all could be gone after this year.
Carter 4.2m
Durant 3m
Brinkley 2m
Gachkar 1.2m

The LB I wanted the Cowboys to keep was Carter. That said, given that he didn't start several games in 2014 for performance reasons, I could see that the Cowboys wouldn't want to invest further in him. I thought that the last quarter of the season, however, the light started to come on and he was playing much better.

When I look at the LBs we picked up in FA this year, they generally seem good depth players or good role players. I still would like to draft a stud LB as a high quality starter and have a young, solid LB core.
 

BAT

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None of the guarantees were that big and they all could be gone after this year.
Carter 4.2m
Durant 3m
Brinkley 2m
Gachkar 1.2m

Total Brinkley and Gachkar and you have Durant's guarantee. Carter's guarantee is almost 2M more than that. 7M is more than TWICE 3.2M. That is a significant financial difference, especially for a cap strapped team that is proving reluctant to push dead money back for players like Romo, Witten and Carr.
 

Nightman

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The LB I wanted the Cowboys to keep was Carter. That said, given that he didn't start several games in 2014 for performance reasons, I could see that the Cowboys wouldn't want to invest further in him. I thought that the last quarter of the season, however, the light started to come on and he was playing much better.

When I look at the LBs we picked up in FA this year, they generally seem good depth players or good role players. I still would like to draft a stud LB as a high quality starter and have a young, solid LB core.

The main reason for the change is that is Lee is returning and Hitchens is improving. If Brinkley can handle the base D snaps(he can) then the LB is very solid and very cheap.

Hitchens-Brinkley-Lee

backed up by Rivers, Gachkar, Watson, Wilber, Smith
 
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