Cowboys Need Tone Setting Players & New Head Coach

dfense

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The current team lacks a super intense butt kicking type player that is a bit insane.

The biggest hitter on the current team is Jeff Heath and the player with the most "attitude" is probably Michael Bennett. La'el had potential to be that type of player but young players with Garrett as Head Coach tend to become emotionless robots.

The 85 Bears had Mike Singletary.

The late seventies Cowboys had Randy White.

The Nineties Cowboys Super Bowl teams had Erik Williams (Yes, they had Charles Haley, but it was EW that put fear into opponents). Most fans/media think Larry Allen was the most feared Cowboys player but for those couple of years prior to the car accident, EW was probably the scariest player to ever suit up in a Cowboys uniform.

Erik Williams had the Randy White "I want to kill you" mentality on the field, but he did it in a 6-6, 330+ body which was a big scale up from Randy at 6-4, 260 (Randy's natural weight was really a good bit below 260. He was originally a 4-3 LB. By living in the weight room Randy was able to get up to that 260 range). EW had to work to keep his weight down to around 330.

Just ask Darren Woodson or Nate Newton about Erik Williams. Both laugh when people ask about Charles Haley being a scary guy. Haley didn't scare teammates, he just annoyed them. Woodson has described in some amount of detail how everyone including teammates and opponents were scared of EW, especially on game day.

The concept of opponents suddenly coming up with injuries before playing the Cowboys started with EW, not with Larry Allen. When you make Reggie White cry, other defensive players take notice. Woodson said that Reggie White was the nicest man of all players that he ever met but that EW made Reggie White want to fight which Woodson said had probably never happened before.

The other issue with EW is that opponents didn't just claim to be injured, they often did get injured by EW. He was directly involved in two DL that got broken legs and many other front 7 defensive players seemed to end up injured after coming into contact with EW.

The Wade Phillips era had Jay Ratliff. You had to see Ratliff up close in training camp to really appreciate him as a player. When they did DL/OL drills, the intensity level of Ratliff completely dwarfed all other players. It liked sounded and looked like a tornado had suddenly hit the field. Words just don't do justice to what I saw back then when stand 10 yards away from those drills.

Side Note:
The intensity I describe seeing with Ratliff is something I really only saw from 2 players in all of my years of going to training camp (I started going to camp in 92). Erik Williams was the original intensity freak that I saw in TC. At one (I think it was the 93 training camp) I though EW had killed Charles Haley. Haley tried his slap to the head move on EW and in one sweeping move EW with one hand picked up Haley and slammed him to the ground in a way that I've never seen in a game. I never saw Haley line up against EW again in that or any other training camp (It was not Haley's normal side anyway, but I'm certain that Haley intentionally avoided EW). There is a rumor that EW was standing nearby or involved in the incident when Jimmy Johnson shoved Haley into a toilet stall and flushed, telling Haley that was his career going down the drain. I've never found a confirmation of that rumor, but it would be interesting if true. It is well known that the OLine back then policed the locker-room with Mark Tuinei also known to have a low tolerance for nonsense.

The closest the Garrett era Cowboys got to that was for 7 glorious games in 2014 when Jermey Parnell played RT next to a healthy Zack Martin. That combo physically dominated DLinemen and Parnell was the guy that would jump into any skirmish and be ready to fight. The Cowboys best assistant coach in the Garrett era loved Parnell but Garrett preferred Doug Free who could not fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

The Cowboys have super intense Sean Lee and guy that lives for football in Witten but they are not crazy enough to fit the type of player that I'm suggesting.

Ron Leary had a bit of that mean streak but was too often injured.

Tyron is obviously physically intimidating but is "too nice".

Michael Bennett has a bit of that mentality but has not been here long enough and Garrett would try to shut him down anyway.

Greg Hardy could have been that guy. If Jimmy was the Head Coach, he would have made Hardy into a Charles Haley type Hall of Fame player, but Garrett could NOT deal with Hardy. Maybe the Goodell era NFL would limit what Jimmy could do with Hardy, but he definitely could have gotten another couple of years from Hardy (Hardy played at a high level on the field. Offenses focused on him which allowed DLaw to have success on the other side).

It required having Kris Richard on the coaching staff to even make obtaining Michael Bennett an option.

How it relates to Garrett:
Garrett has made a concerted effort to get rid of players like Greg Hardy but Garrett probably needed a couple of those type of players even more than a butt kicking type Head Coach like Jimmy needed them because Garrett is too passive during games.

Garrett's one foray into showing emotion actually had good results. When Garrett when ballistic on the Ref early this season and got the 15 yard penalty, the team responded with an obvious increase in intensity.

Appendix (Since this post turned into a book...):
While not a "butt kicking type player per se", the extreme intensity of a drugged up Lawrence Taylor changed the NFL. Fans first became aware of the "blindside" concept due to LT. The the premium on Left Tackles that could protect the passer took a huge jump due to LT. It was similar to the idea of Zone Coverage(s) being invented because of Bullet Bob Hayes.
Water is wet.
 

xwalker

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No one will ever question your loyalty to Parnell. Great OP and you’re right. We don’t have and desperately need one of those guys.

Maybe a new staff will reveal that in someone’s personality with a different motivation technique than Garrett has.

This team needs a new Head Coach more than any team I can remember. Garrett pushed out the best assistant coach that they had in the Garrett era (Bill Callahan). In retrospect, I think Garrett avoided getting assistant coaches that would be a threat to him.

The entire reason that I focused on Parnell was because of the concept that fans just can't buy into a quality backup player if the media does not hype the player. Parnell just happened to be the player that best represented that concept.
 

AbeBeta

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Stop accusing people of crimes that have not been proven.

There is way evidence that the girl made up the story than there is that Hardy "abused" her.

Just because your Dad or StepDad was bad guy does not mean that everyone that gets accused of DV is actually guilty.

Yep. Blame the victim and call her a liar. Trash posts there buddy.
 

Bleu Star

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The current team lacks a super intense butt kicking type player that is a bit insane.

The biggest hitter on the current team is Jeff Heath and the player with the most "attitude" is probably Michael Bennett. La'el had potential to be that type of player but young players with Garrett as Head Coach tend to become emotionless robots.

The 85 Bears had Mike Singletary.

The late seventies Cowboys had Randy White.

The Nineties Cowboys Super Bowl teams had Erik Williams (Yes, they had Charles Haley, but it was EW that put fear into opponents). Most fans/media think Larry Allen was the most feared Cowboys player but for those couple of years prior to the car accident, EW was probably the scariest player to ever suit up in a Cowboys uniform.

Erik Williams had the Randy White "I want to kill you" mentality on the field, but he did it in a 6-6, 330+ body which was a big scale up from Randy at 6-4, 260 (Randy's natural weight was really a good bit below 260. He was originally a 4-3 LB. By living in the weight room Randy was able to get up to that 260 range). EW had to work to keep his weight down to around 330.

Just ask Darren Woodson or Nate Newton about Erik Williams. Both laugh when people ask about Charles Haley being a scary guy. Haley didn't scare teammates, he just annoyed them. Woodson has described in some amount of detail how everyone including teammates and opponents were scared of EW, especially on game day.

The concept of opponents suddenly coming up with injuries before playing the Cowboys started with EW, not with Larry Allen. When you make Reggie White cry, other defensive players take notice. Woodson said that Reggie White was the nicest man of all players that he ever met but that EW made Reggie White want to fight which Woodson said had probably never happened before.

The other issue with EW is that opponents didn't just claim to be injured, they often did get injured by EW. He was directly involved in two DL that got broken legs and many other front 7 defensive players seemed to end up injured after coming into contact with EW.

The Wade Phillips era had Jay Ratliff. You had to see Ratliff up close in training camp to really appreciate him as a player. When they did DL/OL drills, the intensity level of Ratliff completely dwarfed all other players. It liked sounded and looked like a tornado had suddenly hit the field. Words just don't do justice to what I saw back then when stand 10 yards away from those drills.

Side Note:
The intensity I describe seeing with Ratliff is something I really only saw from 2 players in all of my years of going to training camp (I started going to camp in 92). Erik Williams was the original intensity freak that I saw in TC. At one (I think it was the 93 training camp) I though EW had killed Charles Haley. Haley tried his slap to the head move on EW and in one sweeping move EW with one hand picked up Haley and slammed him to the ground in a way that I've never seen in a game. I never saw Haley line up against EW again in that or any other training camp (It was not Haley's normal side anyway, but I'm certain that Haley intentionally avoided EW). There is a rumor that EW was standing nearby or involved in the incident when Jimmy Johnson shoved Haley into a toilet stall and flushed, telling Haley that was his career going down the drain. I've never found a confirmation of that rumor, but it would be interesting if true. It is well known that the OLine back then policed the locker-room with Mark Tuinei also known to have a low tolerance for nonsense.

The closest the Garrett era Cowboys got to that was for 7 glorious games in 2014 when Jermey Parnell played RT next to a healthy Zack Martin. That combo physically dominated DLinemen and Parnell was the guy that would jump into any skirmish and be ready to fight. The Cowboys best assistant coach in the Garrett era loved Parnell but Garrett preferred Doug Free who could not fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

The Cowboys have super intense Sean Lee and guy that lives for football in Witten but they are not crazy enough to fit the type of player that I'm suggesting.

Ron Leary had a bit of that mean streak but was too often injured.

Tyron is obviously physically intimidating but is "too nice".

Michael Bennett has a bit of that mentality but has not been here long enough and Garrett would try to shut him down anyway.

Greg Hardy could have been that guy. If Jimmy was the Head Coach, he would have made Hardy into a Charles Haley type Hall of Fame player, but Garrett could NOT deal with Hardy. Maybe the Goodell era NFL would limit what Jimmy could do with Hardy, but he definitely could have gotten another couple of years from Hardy (Hardy played at a high level on the field. Offenses focused on him which allowed DLaw to have success on the other side).

It required having Kris Richard on the coaching staff to even make obtaining Michael Bennett an option.

How it relates to Garrett:
Garrett has made a concerted effort to get rid of players like Greg Hardy but Garrett probably needed a couple of those type of players even more than a butt kicking type Head Coach like Jimmy needed them because Garrett is too passive during games.

Garrett's one foray into showing emotion actually had good results. When Garrett when ballistic on the Ref early this season and got the 15 yard penalty, the team responded with an obvious increase in intensity.

Appendix (Since this post turned into a book...):
While not a "butt kicking type player per se", the extreme intensity of a drugged up Lawrence Taylor changed the NFL. Fans first became aware of the "blindside" concept due to LT. The the premium on Left Tackles that could protect the passer took a huge jump due to LT. It was similar to the idea of Zone Coverage(s) being invented because of Bullet Bob Hayes.
Nice read. Appreciate it. One thing we absolutely do know is that BKGs are > RKGs.
 

Clove

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What we need is this.

A coach who will hire his staff, based on the type of scheme he wants to run, based on the type of players he wants. For example
Kansas City has shortish but FAST receivers. If you like that type of receiver, just draft those types.

A coach who is completely innovative and changes with the time, and possibly year to year based on if teams are figuring him out.

A coach who is meticulous - In Catching,blocking,etc...

A coach who is so detail oriented that every play has some form of success.

A coach who LOVES defense. Not necessarily a defensive coach, but one that emphasizes GREAT defense, because that's what wins.

A coach who can manage and deal with/manipulate Jerry Jones into doing what he wants.

A coach who the players completely respect. One that the players will run through walls for.

A coach with ice-water veins and is simply brilliant in the playoffs.

An aggressive coach who's mean and rude to the bone with regards to destroying the opponent.

A coach who is a genius at playing chess while other coaches are playing checkers. That's what we need, and everything else will fall into place.

Does that coach exist? Cause that's who we need.
 

Gaede

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Generally agree, but at this point you're just trolling people with the Parnell mentions, right?

Love the Ratliff training camp observation, though. Even when he was here he was underrated.

Ditto this.
 

Kaiser

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Roy WR Williams was a complete goof off. If the ball did not hit him directly in the hands, he would make zero effort to catch it.

Funny, I heard rumors back then that WR Roy Williams was....umm...."festive".
 

Kaiser

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Stop defending domestic abusers.

Just like Zeke, right? Any accusation is gospel truth, I think you should stop watching a team that has players who have been accused of DV. Like every professional sports team on Earth, so have fun watching yoga videos.
 

quickccc

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" Greg Hardy could have been that guy. If Jimmy was the Head Coach, he would have made Hardy into a Charles Haley type Hall of Fame player, but Garrett could NOT deal with Hardy. Maybe the Goodell era NFL would limit what Jimmy could do with Hardy, but he definitely could have gotten another couple of years from Hardy (Hardy played at a high level on the field. Offenses focused on him which allowed DLaw to have success on the other side)."

Many don't know that Hardy had far more serious personal issues off the field and behind the scenes than what was let on... and let out .
Cowboys 2nd chanced him but he was a mess that could not be reformed or handled.
 

xwalker

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Yep. Blame the victim and call her a liar. Trash posts there buddy.

Look, I do feel bad that you had to experience a bad Dad as a kid.

I actually respect your football opinions despite past differences of opinion.

Having said that, you've shown in the past that you will blame anybody that is accused of DV regardless of lack of evidence.

Greg Hardy
Her own friend testified against her and directly said that she planned the entire ordeal.

It is highly possible that in the past (before the incident) that Hardy was abusive. I have no way to know about that; however, with regards to the incident, there is no verifiable evidence that he did anything wrong. Again, there was testimony from her friend that some of the injuries were self inflicted AND there was more than 1 witness that she had been in a brawl with another woman within a couple of days prior to the incident.

The police that arrived didn't find any evidence other than the fact that Hardy had guns laying around.

Just because your Dad was a bad guy, it does not mean that all men accused of DV are actually guilty.

I don't think you understand or don't want to understand what would happen if an NFL Defensive Lineman actually "beat up" a women. One punch would send her to the hospital with life threatening injuries.

Hardy's ex-girlfriend had an extreme financial incentive creating the incident. People are killed every day for way less money that was at stake. Hit men for the Mob don't get the kind of money that she could potentially get by manipulating the legal system.

Zeke
Zeke was punished for DV despite the fact that a woman hired by the NFL to investigate did NOT believe that Zeke did anything wrong.

Jourdan Lewis
Jourdan Lewis had his draft stock drop due to an allegation. The entire accusation was that he injured her by throwing a pillow into her face. A jury found him non guilty.

From Wiki:
Crystal Gail Mangum (born July 18, 1978)[1] is a woman from Durham, North Carolina, who is best known for making false allegations of rape against lacrosse players in the 2006 Duke lacrosse case. The fact that Mangum was a black woman working in the sex industry, while the accused were all white men, created extensive media interest and academic debate about race, class, gender and the politicization of the justice system.

In February 2010, she was arrested on charges of attempted murder of her live-in partner, Milton Walker. She was eventually convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile, injury to personal property and resisting a public officer.

In November 2013, she was found guilty of second-degree murder after she stabbed boyfriend Reginald Daye, who died 10 days after. She argued that she acted in self-defense, fearing that Daye would kill her. She was sentenced to 14 to 18 years in prison.
 

xwalker

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" Greg Hardy could have been that guy. If Jimmy was the Head Coach, he would have made Hardy into a Charles Haley type Hall of Fame player, but Garrett could NOT deal with Hardy. Maybe the Goodell era NFL would limit what Jimmy could do with Hardy, but he definitely could have gotten another couple of years from Hardy (Hardy played at a high level on the field. Offenses focused on him which allowed DLaw to have success on the other side)."

Many don't know that Hardy had far more serious personal issues off the field and behind the scenes than what was let on... and let out .
Cowboys 2nd chanced him but he was a mess that could not be reformed or handled.

Not more issues than Charles Haley. They literally could have declared Charles Haley insane before he started taking medication.
 

HungryLion

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Different era, kids in the league today were on the cusp of the just win mantra/participation trophy stuff. The mindsets are different and it will only get worse the next generation of players. The work ethics are lessening as well as instant gratification.

Who was the last dominant, borderline crazy leader? Lewis?


Yes. The cowboys need to find some players that had to walk to school in 10 feet of snow and uphill both ways.
 

glimmerman

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The game isn’t the same. I would love to have a scary player. It travels and spreads through a team.
 

Kaiser

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Many don't know that Hardy had far more serious personal issues off the field and behind the scenes than what was let on... and let out . Cowboys 2nd chanced him but he was a mess that could not be reformed or handled.

The Carolina coaches fought to bring him back but the owner didn't want the press. Hardy did fine and wasn't a clubhouse issue until ESPN took some tame photos and made him into front page news by calling him a monster. He folded under the pressure, which was both unfortunate and understandable. People kill themselves over less.
 

Kaiser

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Jourdan Lewis
Jourdan Lewis had his draft stock drop due to an allegation. The entire accusation was that he injured her by throwing a pillow into her face. A jury found him non guilty.

You are also forgetting that La'el Collins dropped out of the first round of the draft because he killed an ex-girlfriend.

My bad, he didn't actually kill her but she was murdered and Collins had his name land in the media even though he was never considered a suspect.
 

quickccc

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Not more issues than Charles Haley. They literally could have declared Charles Haley insane before he started taking medication.

oh yes, hardycertainly did have more issues than Haley, i'm choosing not to disclose an insider .
 

quickccc

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90's Cowboys was so unique as it had an extraordinarily unique motivator and leader in Mike Irvin,

it also had self starter leaders in aikman, woodson, and smith ...and Haley had his bizaae issues but no one could doubt the skill and mentality he brought to the playing field .. that's a HOF performer.

and then there was the depth and not to forget the awesome personnel and performance level of that Great Wall of Fame ..most dominant OL in all history of NFL .

Here ?
- Dak is seen as a leader - he's not on Irvin's level. But it's said that teammates and coaches revel around him, even more than they did with Romo,
that's why its that more important to mold him into the most effective passer and performer he can be be.
although he's improved his mechanics, hes a comfort passer than he is a natural gunslinger, if he gets out of that comfort mode , his mechanics go to hell again,..

- zeke is a competitor but i dunno if he is a leader. .among the OL, is there an Erik Williams, Larry Allen, Mark Tunieu or Nate Newton killer - bully mentality ?
i am in doubt of that. i dont see that Zack Martin great by example but not a killer that others feed off their mentality.

Defense - sorry but i dont see a true leader as of yet. at their best, i can see top performers by example, but when the going gets tough, adversity and doubt settign in, and that lull comes in, who's that quicker picker upper ?
 

john van brocklin

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The current team lacks a super intense butt kicking type player that is a bit insane.

The biggest hitter on the current team is Jeff Heath and the player with the most "attitude" is probably Michael Bennett. La'el had potential to be that type of player but young players with Garrett as Head Coach tend to become emotionless robots.

The 85 Bears had Mike Singletary.

The late seventies Cowboys had Randy White.

The Nineties Cowboys Super Bowl teams had Erik Williams (Yes, they had Charles Haley, but it was EW that put fear into opponents). Most fans/media think Larry Allen was the most feared Cowboys player but for those couple of years prior to the car accident, EW was probably the scariest player to ever suit up in a Cowboys uniform.

Erik Williams had the Randy White "I want to kill you" mentality on the field, but he did it in a 6-6, 330+ body which was a big scale up from Randy at 6-4, 260 (Randy's natural weight was really a good bit below 260. He was originally a 4-3 LB. By living in the weight room Randy was able to get up to that 260 range). EW had to work to keep his weight down to around 330.

Just ask Darren Woodson or Nate Newton about Erik Williams. Both laugh when people ask about Charles Haley being a scary guy. Haley didn't scare teammates, he just annoyed them. Woodson has described in some amount of detail how everyone including teammates and opponents were scared of EW, especially on game day.

The concept of opponents suddenly coming up with injuries before playing the Cowboys started with EW, not with Larry Allen. When you make Reggie White cry, other defensive players take notice. Woodson said that Reggie White was the nicest man of all players that he ever met but that EW made Reggie White want to fight which Woodson said had probably never happened before.

The other issue with EW is that opponents didn't just claim to be injured, they often did get injured by EW. He was directly involved in two DL that got broken legs and many other front 7 defensive players seemed to end up injured after coming into contact with EW.

The Wade Phillips era had Jay Ratliff. You had to see Ratliff up close in training camp to really appreciate him as a player. When they did DL/OL drills, the intensity level of Ratliff completely dwarfed all other players. It liked sounded and looked like a tornado had suddenly hit the field. Words just don't do justice to what I saw back then when stand 10 yards away from those drills.

Side Note:
The intensity I describe seeing with Ratliff is something I really only saw from 2 players in all of my years of going to training camp (I started going to camp in 92). Erik Williams was the original intensity freak that I saw in TC. At one (I think it was the 93 training camp) I though EW had killed Charles Haley. Haley tried his slap to the head move on EW and in one sweeping move EW with one hand picked up Haley and slammed him to the ground in a way that I've never seen in a game. I never saw Haley line up against EW again in that or any other training camp (It was not Haley's normal side anyway, but I'm certain that Haley intentionally avoided EW). There is a rumor that EW was standing nearby or involved in the incident when Jimmy Johnson shoved Haley into a toilet stall and flushed, telling Haley that was his career going down the drain. I've never found a confirmation of that rumor, but it would be interesting if true. It is well known that the OLine back then policed the locker-room with Mark Tuinei also known to have a low tolerance for nonsense.

The closest the Garrett era Cowboys got to that was for 7 glorious games in 2014 when Jermey Parnell played RT next to a healthy Zack Martin. That combo physically dominated DLinemen and Parnell was the guy that would jump into any skirmish and be ready to fight. The Cowboys best assistant coach in the Garrett era loved Parnell but Garrett preferred Doug Free who could not fight his way out of a wet paper bag.

The Cowboys have super intense Sean Lee and guy that lives for football in Witten but they are not crazy enough to fit the type of player that I'm suggesting.

Ron Leary had a bit of that mean streak but was too often injured.

Tyron is obviously physically intimidating but is "too nice".

Michael Bennett has a bit of that mentality but has not been here long enough and Garrett would try to shut him down anyway.

Greg Hardy could have been that guy. If Jimmy was the Head Coach, he would have made Hardy into a Charles Haley type Hall of Fame player, but Garrett could NOT deal with Hardy. Maybe the Goodell era NFL would limit what Jimmy could do with Hardy, but he definitely could have gotten another couple of years from Hardy (Hardy played at a high level on the field. Offenses focused on him which allowed DLaw to have success on the other side).

It required having Kris Richard on the coaching staff to even make obtaining Michael Bennett an option.

How it relates to Garrett:
Garrett has made a concerted effort to get rid of players like Greg Hardy but Garrett probably needed a couple of those type of players even more than a butt kicking type Head Coach like Jimmy needed them because Garrett is too passive during games.

Garrett's one foray into showing emotion actually had good results. When Garrett when ballistic on the Ref early this season and got the 15 yard penalty, the team responded with an obvious increase in intensity.

Appendix (Since this post turned into a book...):
While not a "butt kicking type player per se", the extreme intensity of a drugged up Lawrence Taylor changed the NFL. Fans first became aware of the "blindside" concept due to LT. The the premium on Left Tackles that could protect the passer took a huge jump due to LT. It was similar to the idea of Zone Coverage(s) being invented because of Bullet Bob Hayes.
Good stuff
If Erik had not got injured in that car accident, would have gone down as one of the best OT on the history of the NFL
 
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