Credit Where Credit's Due and Not Due

[Sydla]

I don't think Kincaid was the target. I think the debate might have been more heated if he had been there, but I think the intent was to take Mazi. I do think the debate was possibly TE vs. DT. I think the TE they were debating was LaPorta.

If they took LaPorta there.

I'd probably have taken today off from work and contemplated mashing my nuts in a vice.

 

[gimmesix]

If they took LaPorta there.

I'd probably have taken today off from work and contemplated mashing my nuts in a vice.

Seen where some sites have him as the third-best TE behind Kincaid and Mayer and as a possible pick in the late first round. So I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities. Thankfully, I think the TE depth helped us go DT first since the depth isn't near as good there.

I know many viewed Mazi as a second-round pick, too, but I admit to be excited that we actually took a stab at addressing DT in the first round even if it fails. And by fail, I mean that he just ends up being a top-notch run defender and nothing else. I don't think this pick will be a bust, just maybe not everything you want from a first-round DT.

 

[Sydla]

Seen where some sites have him as the third-best TE behind Kincaid and Mayer and as a possible pick in the late first round. So I don't think it was out of the realm of possibilities. Thankfully, I think the TE depth helped us go DT first since the depth isn't near as good there.

I know many viewed Mazi as a second-round pick, too, but I admit to be excited that we actually took a stab at addressing DT in the first round even if it fails. And by fail, I mean that he just ends up being a top-notch run defender and nothing else. I don't think this pick will be a bust, just maybe not everything you want from a first-round DT.

I just don't LaPorta and that hype. Yeah, I've seen the combine numbers. Impressive. In line with Kincaid. Then I watch highlights of LaPorta and his play on the field doesn't match the speed of Kincaid. He looks almost exactly like Mayer out there and we have people claiming Mayer just is too limited athletically to be considered a big time prospect. Underwear Olympics numbers mean nothing if those traits then don't translate on the field.

 

[Spottswoode]

They turned down the KC offer before the Kincaid pick, reportedly because KC wanted Mazi.

Completely agree with this.

To turn down additional draft capital because they didn’t want to lose Mazi makes me more hopeful that they have a grand vision for him in our defense. If true, I’m warming to the pick.

 

[gimmesix]

I just don't LaPorta and that hype. Yeah, I've seen the combine numbers. Impressive. In line with Kincaid. Then I watch highlights of LaPorta and his play on the field doesn't match the speed of Kincaid. He looks almost exactly like Mayer out there and we have people claiming Mayer just is too limited athletically to be considered a big time prospect. Underwear Olympics numbers mean nothing if those traits then don't translate on the field.

Considering this team drafted Gavin Escobar, I can't say I'm not wary when it comes to their evaluation of receiving tight ends. They've done pretty well after the third round, so I'm OK waiting until then again. If LaPorta is there and they take him, I'll certainly hope he lives up to what they see.

 

[Sydla]

Considering this team drafted Gavin Escobar, I can't say I'm not wary when it comes to their evaluation of receiving tight ends. They've done pretty well after the third round, so I'm OK waiting until then again. If LaPorta is there and they take him, I'll certainly hope he lives up to what they see.

And note, I am not opposed to LaPorta at 58. But to me if he's there at 58 but so is Mayer or Washington, don't tell me LaPorta is the better prospect because he tested better. That testing sure as **** doesn't show up on game tape.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I just don't LaPorta and that hype. Yeah, I've seen the combine numbers. Impressive. In line with Kincaid. Then I watch highlights of LaPorta and his play on the field doesn't match the speed of Kincaid. He looks almost exactly like Mayer out there and we have people claiming Mayer just is too limited athletically to be considered a big time prospect. Underwear Olympics numbers mean nothing if those traits then don't translate on the field.

Kincaid doesn't have any testing numbers....

 

[Sydla]

Kincaid doesn't have any testing numbers....

Doesn't really change the underlying point however. Watch LaPorta play. Then watch Kincaid and Mayer. People are acting like LaPorta is likely close to Kincaid based on his testing but reality is, LaPorta looks alot like Mayer out there. Neither play particularly fast or look explosive.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Doesn't really change the underlying point however. Watch LaPorta play. Then watch Kincaid and Mayer. People are acting like LaPorta is likely close to Kincaid based on his testing but reality is, LaPorta looks alot like Mayer out there. Neither play particularly fast or look explosive.

I mean, that's why they run at the Combine right? So we don't have to eyeball it, we can put firm numbers to our evaluation.

LaPorta is materially faster than Mayer, confirmed on a laser. Laser speed testing has a very high correlation to NFL TE success. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[Sydla]

I mean, that's why they run at the Combine right? So we don't have to eyeball it, we can put firm numbers to our evaluation.

LaPorta is materially faster than Mayer, confirmed on a laser. Laser speed testing has a very high correlation to NFL TE success. It's pretty straightforward.

And yet 40 times don't often translate to on the field. There are guys that play faster on the field than their 40 times and guys that don't. That's just reality.

In other words, if you have two WRs and one runs a 4.40 and one runs a 4.48, that doesn't actually mean when they put on the pads the one guy is definitely going to be a "faster" and more explosive player on the field.

I don't care what the 40 times say, when you watch Kincaid, Mayer and LaPorta, the last two aren't close to Kincaid in terms of on the field athleticism and LaPorta sure looks way closer to how Mayer plays than the other way. And FWIW, this is something that quite a few scouting reports have pointed out - that despite his testing numbers, LaPorta doesn't play like a faster twitch TE.

 

[Rockport]

If Archer was correct Buffalo moving ahead of them and taking Kincaid would not have sparked a 10 minute debate before deciding on Mazi. I am glad we were forced to take Mazi but I am not going to pretend like that was the plan all along.

MM told Jerry before the draft started that it would be Mazi.

 

[beware_d-ware]

And yet 40 times don't often translate to on the field.

We've got speed data on hundreds of tight ends, and have been able to analyze their performance with analytics for a decade-plus now. In aggregate, those 40 times have been proven to track success pretty reliably.

So I don't doubt the validity of a Combine 40 or its usefulness at all. It's definitely on more solid ground than eyeballing Youtube videos.

 

[xwalker]

We've got speed data on hundreds of tight ends, and have been able to analyze their performance with analytics for a decade-plus now. In aggregate, those 40 times have been proven to track success pretty reliably.

So I don't doubt the validity of a Combine 40 or its usefulness at all. It's definitely on more solid ground than eyeballing Youtube videos.

There have been multiple TEs that ran faster forties than Kelce/Gronk/Witten with far less success.

Unfortunately we didn't have times on Kincaid.

 

[beware_d-ware]

There have been multiple TEs that ran faster forties than Kelce/Gronk/Witten with far less success.

Unfortunately we didn't have times on Kincaid.

When you factor in both size and speed, all 3 of them destroyed. They were all 86th percentile in Speed Score or higher.

LaPorta was 85th.

 

[xwalker]

When you factor in both size and speed, all 3 of them destroyed. They were all 86th percentile in Speed Score or higher.

LaPorta was 85th.

Should have drafted Kuntz in the 1st based on that criteria...

 

[beware_d-ware]

Should have drafted Kuntz in the 1st based on that criteria...

It wouldn't surprise me if he has a better career than a lot of guys drafted before him.

Kuntz reminds me of Dawson Knox in a way. Knox literally caught 0 touchdowns in college, but he ran a 4.59 at 254 lbs. He's got 20 scores in the NFL now.

 

[Cebrin]

What's slightly odd is that they were discussing it right until the last minute when they were on the clock. If they turned down the offer before, what were they discussing? If there was still some debate perhaps that should have been done when the offer came in. Looks like they were second guessing themselves

They were debating the trade offers, and if it was worth passing on a player that they considered 1st rd graded as they sat at #26 overall. It was mentioned in an interview with Mike, Jerry, Will and Stephen.

 

[Pass2Run]

I've always thought Asthma had a good grasp on players. And, there's several others, too.. Timb2 knows more than he gets credit for, NYC, VA, RS12, and I'm missing a dozen others like Doomsday101.

Anyway, I don't come on here to make opinions personal. I just like to talk players, and hear others insights to gain insight for myself.
The competition banter is silly, and immature.

We should probably have another sticky with a disclaimer, "we're not experts" and a few other premises about it not being personal, or some sort of competition or that someone with an opinion has to be shamed for it if it turns out to be wrong.

Takes the fun out of it.

That's why I always enjoy his input. He's just talking players, and staying on topic while others are bleeding their ego onto the board.

 

[xwalker]

I've always thought Asthma had a good grasp on players. And, there's several others, too.. Timb2 knows more than he gets credit for, NYC, VA, RS12, and I'm missing a dozen others like Doomsday101.

Yes, many people in the DraftZone have good input on players.

 

[Sydla]

When you factor in both size and speed, all 3 of them destroyed. They were all 86th percentile in Speed Score or higher.

LaPorta was 85th.

But it doesn't guarantee success. Are you telling me that every TE that scored 86 or higher turned into a great player?

The point is that LaPorta may have a great athletic score but when you watch him play, there is nothing that pops out that shows he's some athlete out there. Hence why I don't get the love some have for him. He looks like Mayer's clone out there.