Criticism of Secondary Makes No Sense

[batman36]

I loved watching Darren play!

Part of it is having realistic expectations. Even good secondaries in this league can give up 300 yard passing days. The odds are stacked in favor of the QB and receivers.

But with teams passing so often now, shouldn't the Cowboys come up with some of those passes, themselves?

 

[TheHerd]

C'mon man.

Linehan and Marinelli are good coaches. You can be damn sure they identify and attack opposing team's weaknesses.

I'm serious. I don't see us exploiting weaknesses. We run the same plays and never adjust. Multiple players from multiple teams comment how simple our offense is to predict. When we win or dominate, it's because our players simply beat the guy in front of them.

When Gurley beat Smith for the 5th time, what adjustment did we make to prevent 6 7 8 and 9?

 

[T-RO]

But with teams passing so often now, shouldn't the Cowboys come up with some of those passes, themselves?

You can be entirely confident that Marinelli looks around the league and evaluates what plays the Cowboys could steal. All offensive coordinators do this. It's a copy-cat league. And you can see plays that teams have stolen from him.

But teams need the right kind of personnel to run some plays. No team can do everything well.

Anyway...this thread isn't about our offense. I'd prefer to stay on topic.

 

[TheHerd]

To amplify:
Gurley was targeted 8 times...7 catches 94 yards. Most all of that was when L.A. got Gurley matched up with Jaylon.

The one time Dallas had Woods cover Gurley...the play only gained two or three yards.

Jaylon needs another year...good thing Hitchens is coming back. The biggest improvements we can get in pass protection is to add Irving to the pressure and to get Jaylon off the field. DBs are fine.

Wait, running backs can run a pattern besides the safety valve swing route?

When did that rule change?

 

[T-RO]

I'm serious. I don't see us exploiting weaknesses. We run the same plays and never adjust. Multiple players from multiple teams comment how simple our offense is to predict. When we win or dominate, it's because our players simply beat the guy in front of them.

When Gurley beat Smith for the 5th time, what adjustment did we make to prevent 6 7 8 and 9?

Again, a middle linebacker in a zone defense -- you can't suddenly assign him a deep third. We can't blitz him every down. The middle linebacker in Marinelli's defense MUST have coverage talent.

If anything the problem was not having a contingency plan with our personnel for that role and that's more of a front office issue than anything.

The Hitchens injury was a very big deal. Hopefully he comes back full strength.

 

[TheHerd]

Again, a middle linebacker in a zone defense -- you can't suddenly assign him a deep third. We can't blitz him every down. The middle linebacker in Marinelli's defense MUST have coverage talent.

If anything the problem was not having a contingency plan with our personnel for that role and that's more of a front office issue than anything.

The Hitchens injury was a very big deal. Hopefully he comes back full strength.

Agree. And after is not working, you stop using that defense. Again, no change.

And Zeke never goes into a spot where the MLB covers him. We'd never try to exploit that. For instance.

 

[T-RO]

Agree. And after is not working, you stop using that defense. Again, no change.

And Zeke never goes into a spot where the MLB covers him. We'd never try to exploit that. For instance.

This topic is about our secondary.

But to reply: I do see us definitely expanding Zeke into downfield passing more often this season. I agree that I'd like to see them do more getting him even deeper. We'll see.

 

[batman36]

You can be entirely confident that Marinelli looks around the league and evaluates what plays the Cowboys could steal. All offensive coordinators do this. It's a copy-cat league. And you can see plays that teams have stolen from him.

But teams need the right kind of personnel to run some plays. No team can do everything well.

Anyway...this thread isn't about our offense. I'd prefer to stay on topic.

Sir, I too, was speaking of the defense. That's why I asked, shouldn't the defense come up with some of those passes?

 

[T-RO]

Sir, I too, was speaking of the defense. That's why I asked, shouldn't the defense come up with some of those passes?

You are referring to our interception rate?

Through four games, the Qbs we have faced have given up this on the season.
Goff 1 INT
Palmer 5 INT
Manning 4 INT
Siemian 4 INT

Based on this little sampling...we should probably have 4 interceptions by now. We have two. So...fair point, but it's early in the season.

I like the odds Lewis and Awuzie will have a decent number by seasons' end...if they can stay healthy and if we can get a consistent pass rush.

 

[Hoofbite]

You fumbled on your way to the clever zone.

OK...that's being generous...you muffed the handoff.

Stupid thread deserves a stupid response.

Take the production of any team's top receiver from any game and the stats will be worse. You suggest people can't analyze football and then ask everyone to ignore 7 catches, 94 yards, and a TD because if you do that it looks like the pass defense was actually good. You aren't analyzing anything, you're just dabbling in make believe.

Let me know when final scores start excluding the production of a specific player. Then we can talk.

 

[rpntex]

I'm serious. I don't see us exploiting weaknesses. We run the same plays and never adjust. Multiple players from multiple teams comment how simple our offense is to predict. When we win or dominate, it's because our players simply beat the guy in front of them.

When Gurley beat Smith for the 5th time, what adjustment did we make to prevent 6 7 8 and 9?

What adjustment COULD we make? There was not a healthy linebacker on the bench Can you take Jaylon’s place. He was getting killed in the passing game, and there was nobody else that could’ve done any better. So Marinelli adjusted by going exclusively nickel and dime, to which the Rams countered by running it down Dallas his throat. Without that middle level of run support, Gurley was able to pick up 6-7 yards per rush.

I do agree with you regarding the secondary, however. I have been very pleased with Lewis, Woods, Brown, and Scandrick (to a lesser degree). Byron Jones has been adequate to exceptional, Dependent upon whether he’s playing zone, or man against the TE. Even Heath has not been as disappointing as some people like to say. The problem with him is that he had a terrible game three years ago against Detroit, and an off a lot of posters around here still see him to be the same player he was as a raw rookie. Granted, I don’t necessarily think he is an every down safety, but I believe he would be just fine in a limited role.

 

[rwalters31]

This week I've seen stinging criticism of Heath and Jones. Earlier in the season I've seen posters belittle Scandrick and Brown.

One guy dedicates a post to convey we need another round of secondary upgrades.

It's a mountain of ignorance because our secondary has played pretty well despite youth, inexperience and widespread injury.

Some folks around here flat can't analyze football. Case in point? What would you think of a secondary that permitted 14/26 for 161 yards. Not bad eh? Especially if we are talking about a young, injury depleted secondary behind a d-line that wasn't getting to the quarterback.

If you subtract what Gurley was able to do as a receiver when attacking Jaylon Smith and look at what the Rams did against the secondary? 14/26 for 161 yards.

That's good stuff, folks. With the additions of Woods, Awuzie and Lewis--especially as they heal up and get some experience--to Scandrick, Jones and Brown...this can be a Super Bowl caliber secondary.

We have problems on this team: linebacker, outside receiver, tight end, left guard, right tackle...but our secondary is going to be sexy this year...and for years to come.

The secondary is measured by turnovers, what is your stats on that? Roger has made a joke out of our secondary for years, if you want to grade the secondary wait until after Sunday for your evaluation.

 

[T-RO]

Stupid thread deserves a stupid response.

Take the production of any team's top receiver from any game and the stats will be worse. You suggest people can't analyze football and then ask everyone to ignore 7 catches, 94 yards, and a TD because if you do that it looks like the pass defense was actually good. You aren't analyzing anything, you're just dabbling in make believe.

Let me know when final scores start excluding the production of a specific player. Then we can talk.

You utterly whiff on the point...I wasn't subtracting the top receiver...I was subtracting a receiver who was perpetually defended by a LINEBACKER not by a corner or safety. I suppose anything with even a subtle nuance like that is beyond you. Bone up on Bob Sturm's Marinelli report if you need a primer.

You might find it remarkable to discover that pass defense is comprised of 3 levels: pass rush, linebackers who most typically cover tight ends and running backs...and the secondary.

The secondary is getting unduly downgraded by fans here because of linebacker play. Is that too much for you to wrap your head around?

 

[T-RO]

The secondary is measured by turnovers, what is your stats on that? Roger has made a joke out of our secondary for years, if you want to grade the secondary wait until after Sunday for your evaluation.

Sorry bro...a secondary is not measured by turnovers. That helps but getting stops is the key, especially in today's league where offensive coordinators often favor low-risk passing games. The best measurement of success to look at is yards allowed per pass attempt.

If the Packers aren't holding our pass rushmen like crazy and we can get a modicum of pressure...I look forward to seeing the secondary take the Kobayashi Maru (Aaron Rogers) test.

The big thing to note is that they are playing well already...despite the reality that Lewis didn't even have a training camp, Awuzie has been out and a number have been hurt.

 

[rynochop]

Lets bump this thread after Rodgers picks us apart. I'm usually pretty positive but not about this game, we better score every possession

 

[T-RO]

Lets bump this thread after Rodgers picks us apart. I'm usually pretty positive but not about this game, we better score every possession

Yes...let's review after the game.

We'll ask afterwards: how did the corners and safeties do.

My whole point is that the linebacker play (with the exception of Lee) has been the real sore spot -- both in the run and in pass coverage.

 

[Sarge]

If you subtract like 20 points from the Rams, Dallas wins in a blowout.

Quit stealing Garretts lines.

 

[T-RO]

As for the Rams game...I re-watched the broadcast and I watched all downfield passes with the multi-angle coach's film.

I concur with xWalker--who also watched the coach's film-Jones was great. Lewis and Xavier Wood were also outstanding as Bob Sturm noted. Scandrick, Brown--both good.

Our defense was poor last Sunday because of the front 7 and especially our linebackers. Jaylon was perhaps the worst player on the field. Durant was worthless. Damien Wilson is also below average.

Heath will be fine as a backup...and that's what he's going to be with Xavier coming on.

Our d-line may turn out to be OK this year. Our secondary is a strength, but we will need to draft heavy at LB this next spring.

 

[visionary]

I'm no expert on this, nor will I act like I am.

However, I think most of the stats aren't eye popping, because of our bend don't break defense.

What people get angry about, and what I do as well, is the stoppin on big 3rd downs and the receivers running wide open.

Or 3rd and 3-5 and CBs playing 7 yards off with free release

The OP had no conception. Of course the front 7 are bad but the safeties are garbage as well and last I looked, safeties are part of the secondary. The safeties have to be in position and tackle. Ours can do neither. The criticism is absolutely justified

 

[rwalters31]

Sorry bro...a secondary is not measured by turnovers. That helps but getting stops is the key, especially in today's league where offensive coordinators often favor low-risk passing games. The best measurement of success to look at is yards allowed per pass attempt.

If the Packers aren't holding our pass rushmen like crazy and we can get a modicum of pressure...I look forward to seeing the secondary take the Kobayashi Maru (Aaron Rogers) test.

The big thing to note is that they are playing well already...despite the reality that Lewis didn't even have a training camp, Awuzie has been out and a number have been hurt.

I like your reply but turn overs are the new measuring stick for evenly matched teams to win. You call it the Kobayashi Maru, I call it violating them and he should arrested!