D-line rotation

[Chocolate Lab]

Has anyone looked closely at the D-line rotation vs. the Bucs? I'm rewatching the game right now and it seems like we're rotating more than I remember us doing last year. And it's not just a wholesale second group coming in -- Hatcher would be in with the other first teamers, Siavii played with the starting ends, etc. Hatcher in particular seems to be playing more in place of Spears than I would have expected.

BTW, I think Siavii played pretty well. I know Broaddus mentioned that he and some of the backups did a good job on dcfanatic's show, and I'm seeing the same things. He was in there for quite a few first downs in the 3rd quarter, it looks like. Not sure how many plays Tank used to sub in, so I don't know how much difference there is from last year, if any... Siavii is so much bigger than Ratliff that it's easy to pick out this year.

Anyone else note the same thing? The weather might have been a factor, but if these backup guys can play, the starters should be in better shape at the end of the year.

 

[Plumfool]

I noticed that both hatcher and siavii both did very good jobs in the second half. I wonder if we'll see sia with rat at tackles in a 4-3 look.

 

[theogt]

In 2007 we subbed in a good bit -- probably 30+%, but it was typically all at once, or at least two or more players at once.

In 2008, the games I did track, it seems like we subbed much much less.

 

[BAT]

I noticed that both hatcher and siavii both did very good jobs in the second half. I wonder if we'll see sia with rat at tackles in a 4-3 look.

That was Canty's role (4-3 DT). If anything, I see either Bowen or Hatcher lining up alongside Rat instead of Siavii or the other run stopping specialists (Igor or Spears). Wade tends to prefer playing an under front or 46 when he lines up in the 4-3, so both DTs should be the best pass rushers.

 

[BigDinAZ]

I noticed the frequent rotation as well. I wonder how they will adjust to a much more potent running game then what they saw with the bucs.

 

[Idgit]

Was it Bradie who said the field temperature last week was 105? I'm sure we were rotating extra to cut down on cramps and fatigue.

It's also the case that starters don't play a full four quarters ever in the preseason, so it stands to reason that you might sub more earlier in the year as your first units round into game shape.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Ya I didn't notice much drop off when Siavii,Hatch and Bowen were in there. Let's hope they can keep it up.

 

[AdamJT13]

According to Pro Football Focus (which might or might not be accurate), here's how much our defensive linemen played --

Ratliff 61 plays out of 76 = 80.3 percent
Olshansky 44/76 = 57.9 percent
Spears 40/76 = 52.6 percent
Bowen 29/76 = 38.2 percent
Hatcher 22/76 = 28.9 percent
Siavii 13/76 = 17.1 percent


Last year, Ratliff played 68.4 percent, Spears played 49.4 percent, Hatcher played 33.3 percent and Bowen played 21.7 percent. (Canty played 65.8, and Tank Johnson played 36.6.)

Comparing last season to the first game this year, the average number of defensive linemen on the field each play is almost exactly the same -- 2.752 last year and 2.750 against the Bucs (and rounding off could more than explain the minuscule difference). So what changed in the distribution of playing time? Ratliff went up 11.9 percentage points, Spears went up 3.2, and Bowen went up 16.5. Hatcher went down 4.4 percentage points, Olshansky went down 7.9 compared to Canty, and Siavii went down 19.5 compared to Johnson.

So basically, in Week 1, at least, it appears that Ratliff and Spears played more than they did last year (especially Ratliff), and Bowen likely took over at Canty's tackle spot in the nickel.

 

[dbair1967]

I believe I saw at DC.com or DMN that the game was one of the hottest in memory, at 107 degrees...not sure if that was the field temp or the temp factored in with humidity...either way, thats really hot

also read a minimum of 4 players ended up with IV's during the game

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Thanks, Adam. Interesting. I probably saw some of those guys more because I started noticing more in the third quarter when we were having some success.

I think Hatcher is huge for us. IMO it was extremely encouraging when he went from invisible to showing up well in that final preseason game. Maybe it was all that he wasn't over his injuries and surgery yet.

And I wonder if Siavii might slowly earn the trust of the coaching staff and work in more on run downs. It would be nice if he could because Jay really needs a break IMO. It looks to me like he can play well enough if he can just be consistent.

Finally, to echo what some others have said, it looked to me like our D-line did fine this game. It was more the LBs, even including Ware a time or two, who didn't get their jobs done.

 

[arync]

I think Bowen played a lot and did pretty well

 

[21Savage]

Thanks, Adam. Interesting. I probably saw some of those guys more because I started noticing more in the third quarter when we were having some success.

I think Hatcher is huge for us. IMO it was extremely encouraging when he went from invisible to showing up well in that final preseason game. Maybe it was all that he wasn't over his injuries and surgery yet.

And I wonder if Siavii might slowly earn the trust of the coaching staff and work in more on run downs. It would be nice if he could because Jay really needs a break IMO. It looks to me like he can play well enough if he can just be consistent.

Finally, to echo what some others have said, it looked to me like our D-line did fine this game. It was more the LBs, even including Ware a time or two, who didn't get their jobs done.

Ditto! They run the ball on us and the immediate overreaction is for people to say our Dline got pushed off the ball and it's because we have a tiny NT. When, in fact, there were times were Rat got double teamed and could not get moved out of the hole. There was one such play in the playbook breakdown of the game. NTs in this league don't play double teams any better than that.

It's also the same thing that happens when people say our Oline is soft after being unable to run the ball. The you watch the line and you see them pushing Dtackles around only for safeties, blitzing LBs and corners to stop the run game due to missed assignments.

 

[kmd24]

Ditto! They run the ball on us and the immediate overreaction is for people to say our Dline got pushed off the ball and it's because we have a tiny NT. When, in fact, there were times were Rat got double teamed and could not get moved out of the hole. There was one such play in the playbook breakdown of the game. NTs in this league don't play double teams any better than that.

I've tried to point that out, but seems like there are some that want to shout down anyone who denies that Rat is a problem.

If you compare Rat's Sunday to Haynesworth's, you'll see that Rat played comparably. In fact, from late in the first quarter on, Haynesworth was rarely doubleteamed. While he got penetration on most plays, he wasn't the great disruptive force that he's made out to be, mostly because the Giants just ran to the other side.

What worries me about the Giants is that Seubert and Snee are really good at getting to the second level. On a few plays, Diehl slid over to block Haynesworth and Diehl did a good job of cutting off pursuit from McIntosh. He'll be on Brooking when they play us, meaning that it will be up to James and Spencer to hold the fort on the other side. With Spencer's display against the Ravens and Bradie's from last week, I can see the potential for some big plays. Spencer will have to take on the block and shed rather than running around it. Hopefully Bradie will be a little quicker in recognition this week.

 

[CATCH17]

Anyone else note the same thing? The weather might have been a factor, but if these backup guys can play, the starters should be in better shape at the end of the year.

Im pretty sure that is why they did it.

Spears said that those are the worst conditions he has ever played in.

Evidently it was almost impossible to breathe on the field last Sunday.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

I have to say, I like the idea of rotating one backup in at a time, rather than just bringing in the second team, so to speak.

It would stand to reason that there would be less of a dropoff that way.

 

[Big Country]

That's so awesome that Siavii is getting some quality reps. Keep him in there to get some more experience, he can only get better with more playing time. Hopefully he can be a solid contributor.

 

[theogt]

According to Pro Football Focus (which might or might not be accurate), here's how much our defensive linemen played --

Thanks for reminding me about this website. It may not be exactly accurate, but it's probably close enough to make it worth the look. I cant believe they're actually undertaking this charting effort in such a quick turnaround.

 

[AdamJT13]

Thanks for reminding me about this website. It may not be exactly accurate, but it's probably close enough to make it worth the look. I cant believe they're actually undertaking this charting effort in such a quick turnaround.

There are a lot of things I'm skeptical of on that site (and some things I know are not correct), but their effort is extremely commendable.

 

[theogt]

There are a lot of things I'm skeptical of on that site (and some things I know are not correct), but their effort is extremely commendable.

Beyond accuracy, their rating system is bizarre in my opinion.