DA Draft Buzz: April 4th

[Toruk_Makto]

Hand size and arm length are characteristics, not athletic standards. Doesn't apply to running a three cone or doing the broad jump, which I continue to maintain has little to do with whether you can play football or not.




How relevant is a 40 yard dash to an offensive lineman? How relevant is a bench press number to a quarterback? And, how relevant is watching a guy not in gear running around doing these drills when, on the field, he will never be performing without pads and a helmet, and likely never doing a broad jump or three cone style run when playing?

Are they data points? Yes. Are they relevant data points? If it takes away from what the guy showed on tape in live game action, no.

It's like you quoted me but ignored my words.

What part of there are certain drills for certain positions that are correlated strongly with success at the next level?

Just as there are bust SPARQ athletes littered across the history of the NFL... Similarly there are guys who got it done every single Saturday in college but were found wanting when everyone around them was suddenly bigger and stronger and faster.

There is a prototype at every position for a reason. Exceptions prove the rule. Not discredit it.

 

[BAT]

Crap. Was hoping to nab Grover Stewart as UDFA. Very SPARQy 1 tech and unlike Paea he has true 1 tech size.

 

[Plankton]

It's like you quoted me but ignored my words.

What part of there are certain drills for certain positions that are correlated strongly with success at the next level?

Just as there are bust SPARQ athletes littered across the history of the NFL... Similarly there are guys who got it done every single Saturday in college but were found wanting when everyone around them was suddenly bigger and stronger and faster.

There is a prototype at every position for a reason. Exceptions prove the rule. Not discredit it.

It's not that I ignored your words - I just don't agree with you. It's what makes the world go around.

You did mention about hand size and arm length - those aren't tests, they are characteristics. If a team wants corners with 32"+ arms, left tackles with 34"+ arms and WRs with 9 1/2"+ hands, then yes, it's a prototype. But it's not a test - it's size characteristics. Those items can be gathered as part of the medical, and have value there.

The combine drills are largely useless, IMHO. I don't care what a guy runs in the 40 - I care more about how he plays in pads, how fluid he looks during game play and the like. Running around in shorts is a nice exercise, but in reality, reveals little about whether a guy can play. Do you think that you can only see if a guy has tight hips by watching him run around in shorts, or would game film show that? Do you think that you need to watch a shuttle drill to know if a guy has good change of direction skills, or can that be gleaned from game film? Do you need to watch a three cone drill to see if a guy can bend, turn a corner and change direction, or can you gauge that through game film? Do you need to watch guys perform the bench press, or would seeing an offensive lineman demonstrate the ability to lock out his arms in pass protection do the trick? Which one do you think is ultimately more accurate?

It's OK if you believe that these things have value. I don't. I will always go by what the guy does on the field.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It's not that I ignored your words - I just don't agree with you. It's what makes the world go around.

You did mention about hand size and arm length - those aren't tests, they are characteristics. If a team wants corners with 32"+ arms, left tackles with 34"+ arms and WRs with 9 1/2"+ hands, then yes, it's a prototype. But it's not a test - it's size characteristics. Those items can be gathered as part of the medical, and have value there.

The combine drills are largely useless, IMHO. I don't care what a guy runs in the 40 - I care more about how he plays in pads, how fluid he looks during game play and the like. Running around in shorts is a nice exercise, but in reality, reveals little about whether a guy can play. Do you think that you can only see if a guy has tight hips by watching him run around in shorts, or would game film show that? Do you think that you need to watch a shuttle drill to know if a guy has good change of direction skills, or can that be gleaned from game film? Do you need to watch a three cone drill to see if a guy can bend, turn a corner and change direction, or can you gauge that through game film? Do you need to watch guys perform the bench press, or would seeing an offensive lineman demonstrate the ability to lock out his arms in pass protection do the trick? Which one do you think is ultimately more accurate?

It's OK if you believe that these things have value. I don't. I will always go by what the guy does on the field.

Things like bench press, broad jump, vertical 3 cone are tests people use to come to a consensus "athletic trait." usually defined as as a composite athlete what percentile does player A fall into.

And yes I find the drills useful for the simple fact you can compare how different players performed using a consistent test.

Nobody is saying ignore tape. It's 90 percent of a players evaluation. What you're saying is everything else is useless. When dealing with world class athletes where the difference between success and failure is defined in inches and seconds... Yeah I'm not discarding information that has strong historical correlations.