Dak and coaching

[aria]

I’m pretty neutral on Dak, unlike most people who seem to be quit opinionated one way or the other. So out of curiosity, I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet, surprisingly enough.

There have been several players on this team, past and present, that obviously played under Garrett. IMO, some were over rated but always got the coaching excuse. What I mean by that is whether it be on defense or offense, if a player didn’t produce up to a lot of fans expectations it was rarely the players fault according to many, by far and large it fell on the coaching.

We have guys like Zeke, Dlaw, Byron, etc that some people can be a lot more productive with better coaching. Then you have guys like Romo, who allegedly Garrett “ruined his career” or “wasted his years”. Please spare me the Romo didn’t have good teams, he did and he had his chances.

Looking forward, I also hear how better McCarthy will utilize these players and how their production will increase, especially with QB’s. Dak has already put up plenty of pretty stats, unlike some of the other players that people think will improve with new coaching, and accomplished a good part of what Romo did in his entire career. He did it under Garrett, and as I said please spare the better team excuse. I don’t want to make this a Dak vs Romo thread but it’s the only example of QB vs QB we have under Garrett and it still applies to several other players.

So my question is, if all these other players get the Garrett/coaching excuse and Dak has already done considerably well under Garrett, and especially considering how some thing MM is a QB whisperer, why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt like all these other players instead of people saying how bad he is?

*and please don’t get carried way with the contract, if he gets the same benefit of the doubt that other players do because of past poor coaching then he would hypothetically be worth every bit of what he wants.

 

[glimmerman]

Ok. Just ask me the question again but dumb it down.

 

[Big D]

Well, because he's Dak lol. It's kind of funny to me that as many bums as we had to go through to get to Romo and then to have Dak fall in our lap as Romo was on his way out, people still want to get rid of this dude unbelievable.

Do you people that want to run Dak out of town really trust Jones & company to get the next quarterback pick right?

 

[aria]

Ok. Just ask me the question again but dumb it down.

Can and will do.

Why doesn’t Dak get the same coaching excuses as all the other players?
*see explanation above for further clarity

 

[CowboyRoy]

I’m pretty neutral on Dak, unlike most people who seem to be quit opinionated one way or the other. So out of curiosity, I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet, surprisingly enough.

There have been several players on this team, past and present, that obviously played under Garrett. IMO, some were over rated but always got the coaching excuse. What I mean by that is whether it be on defense or offense, if a player didn’t produce up to a lot of fans expectations it was rarely the players fault according to many, by far and large it fell on the coaching.

We have guys like Zeke, Dlaw, Byron, etc that some people can be a lot more productive with better coaching. Then you have guys like Romo, who allegedly Garrett “ruined his career” or “wasted his years”. Please spare me the Romo didn’t have good teams, he did and he had his chances.

Looking forward, I also hear how better McCarthy will utilize these players and how their production will increase, especially with QB’s. Dak has already put up plenty of pretty stats, unlike some of the other players that people think will improve with new coaching, and accomplished a good part of what Romo did in his entire career. He did it under Garrett, and as I said please spare the better team excuse. I don’t want to make this a Dak vs Romo thread but it’s the only example of QB vs QB we have under Garrett and it still applies to several other players.

So my question is, if all these other players get the Garrett/coaching excuse and Dak has already done considerably well under Garrett, and especially considering how some thing MM is a QB whisperer, why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt like all these other players instead of people saying how bad he is?

*and please don’t get carried way with the contract, if he gets the same benefit of the doubt that other players do because of past poor coaching then he would hypothetically be worth every bit of what he wants.

To be honest...….…..Once you start saying things like Romo needs or Dak needs you are already heading in the wrong direction. QB is just another player on the team albeit the most important on offense. Its not about what the QB needs, its about what the team needs.

It might be more accurate to say "what does the coach need". He is the true leader of the team and handles everything.

Romo was on good teams a couple years, but that was about it. But never good enough of a team to go all the way. And he always had bad coaching. So how far can you really have expected him to go? Never had a great defense.

I take it your a guy that doesn't think coaching is important?

Lots of people get caught up in saying that a QB was surrounded by talent, but many just mean what he had offensively. Defense and coaching are every bit as important.


Heck, for half of Romo's career he had a bad oline. Most years the team had no running game.

Garrett was making blunder after blunder running the offense and calling plays back then.

 

[glimmerman]

He should. I gave the excuse for the TEAM record. Everyone wants to pin 8-8 on Dak and he isn’t that good. But no one wants to talk about the 2 out of 4 years that we won the division and won a playoff game. Players and Dak did it despite the coaching staff. Been saying since Romo was the QB that it’s the only way we are winning a SB. No ST hurt bad last year...

 

[CowboyRoy]

Well, because he's Dak lol. It's kind of funny to me that as many bums as we had to go through to get to Romo and then to have Dak fall in our lap as Romo was on his way out, people still want to get rid of this dude unbelievable.

Do you people that want to run Dak out of town really trust Jones & company to get the next quarterback pick right?

Yep...……….and it just goes to show how out of touch the haters are. As if you can just go out any year, with any pick and just pluck out the next Wilson and everything will be great. They forget the 25 years struggle to replace Aikman. We basically got lucky twice. Nothing Jones did.

 

[baltcowboy]

I’m pretty neutral on Dak, unlike most people who seem to be quit opinionated one way or the other. So out of curiosity, I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet, surprisingly enough.

There have been several players on this team, past and present, that obviously played under Garrett. IMO, some were over rated but always got the coaching excuse. What I mean by that is whether it be on defense or offense, if a player didn’t produce up to a lot of fans expectations it was rarely the players fault according to many, by far and large it fell on the coaching.

We have guys like Zeke, Dlaw, Byron, etc that some people can be a lot more productive with better coaching. Then you have guys like Romo, who allegedly Garrett “ruined his career” or “wasted his years”. Please spare me the Romo didn’t have good teams, he did and he had his chances.

Looking forward, I also hear how better McCarthy will utilize these players and how their production will increase, especially with QB’s. Dak has already put up plenty of pretty stats, unlike some of the other players that people think will improve with new coaching, and accomplished a good part of what Romo did in his entire career. He did it under Garrett, and as I said please spare the better team excuse. I don’t want to make this a Dak vs Romo thread but it’s the only example of QB vs QB we have under Garrett and it still applies to several other players.

So my question is, if all these other players get the Garrett/coaching excuse and Dak has already done considerably well under Garrett, and especially considering how some thing MM is a QB whisperer, why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt like all these other players instead of people saying how bad he is?

*and please don’t get carried way with the contract, if he gets the same benefit of the doubt that other players do because of past poor coaching then he would hypothetically be worth every bit of what he wants.

Lol, your new avatar is the best on the site. It seems on this board you have to love or hate Dak. Like you I have questions. I do believe he is a good quarterback who literally got a chance of a lifetime and took advantage of it. Would I love to have the next John Elway or Dan Marino on this team? Yes, but we know we are more then likely to have Bortles or Mariota if we let Jerrah and company draft a quarterback. The coaching will help if Jerrah stays out of the way and does not undercut MM. He hired one of the best special teams coordinator and that will probably help more then anything. Like you I think Romo had his chances. 2007 still makes me cry but we were lucky that Romo became a top 10 quarterback from being a undrafted free agent.

 

[Eanwen]

I question why we didn't bring in a guy like Kitna the instant it became obvious that Dak was the qb going forward.

I remember a lot of people on the forum saying that Dak was a developmental guy, wouldn't see the field for 4 years, and at most would be an adequate backup. I'd say he's far exceeded that expectation.

We've seen other teams' defensive players say the Cowboys' offensive gameplan was simplistic and easy to defend, and we've seen and heard what Garrett thinks of analytics. If it weren't for that thing we shouldn't talk about I'd be super excited to see how Dak fairs with the new staff. I'm still optimistic but not as much as I would have been if this was a normal off-season.

 

[plasticman]

Perception and misplaced loyalty.

For many of the younger fans, switching from Romo to Dak was their first experience when it came to a change in the starting QB. In this case, it didn't happen because the former starting quarterback retired, it happened because he was forced out. Through no fault of his own, Romo became nonessential for three reasons.

First of all was Dak's performance his rookie year....for which he received Rookie of the Year honors as well as Pro Bowl recognition. He broke the rookie record for passer rating as well as several other marks. He quarterbacked the team to a 13-3 record including an 11 game winning streak. In the playoffs, he was 35 seconds short of leading the Cowboys back from an 18 point deficit. It was obvious he was going to be the "quarterback of the future" because he was the quarterback now.

The second was Romo's age and the injuries over the previous two seasons. It's difficult to keep the job when injured through three fourths of two consecutive seasons, particularly when you are close to the end of a career.

The third was money. Dak was bargain basement cheap and the extra money from not having to pay Romo could theoretically be used to improve the team.

However, for many young or recent fans, Romo was the only QB they knew and they resented the way in which he left. It was very difficult for them to accept change under those circumstances. They are very loyal to Romo, in part due to Romo not suffering a decline in ability, only a decline in availability. Romo didn't retire because his skills had deteriorated, he was never built to take that kind of beating at an older age, he just wasn't big enough. This is something Parcells used to warn him about all the time. He never wanted Romo playing like he was John Elway or Cam Newton.

There is a curious perception that Dak is a failure because he hasn't led the Cowboys to the Super Bowl. Many also believe that he did not improve enough from an almost perfect rookie season. In Dak's case, there was no where else to go but down his sophomore season.

Many fans still can't comprehend the fact that Dak is in his fourth season and if a 4th round pick was ever to start in the NFL it would be expected to take a few seasons of riding the bench. Rather than compare Dak to others that were drafted around the same round as Dak, he has been compared only to elite QB's. Dak has completed his fourth season. It should be remembered that Romo never started a full season by the end of his fourth year. In fact, his fourth season was the first time he ever threw an NFL regular season pass.

With this in mind, there is another flaw to the perception that Dak doesn't deserve the money he is asking for. They are basing this on the past four seasons rather than the potential of the next four seasons. I think we can all agree that Romo improved drastically as he gained more experience. Why then, do they not believe the same will be true for Dak? Considering what Dak has already done, any improvement beyond that would place Dak in elite status. This is what is expected by the team management, and so this is how Dak expects to be paid.

Jerry Jones is using every negotiating tool at his disposal while picking the wrong fight. One of his tools is the media and the impatience of fans to resolve this issue. Everything we are hearing about the contract is coming from one side. Dak has not made any detrimental public statement. Jerry's strategy is working as much of the fanbase is being worn down by the constant publicity of Dak's contract. They are wrongfully blaming him.

 

[OmerV]

Can and will do.

Why doesn’t Dak get the same coaching excuses as all the other players?
*see explanation above for further clarity

I’m sure some will disagree, but I think this is a fair question. It’s one I’ve thought of too. A lot blame most of the teams shortcomings on poor coaching, and that may well be fair to do, but now that Garrett isn’t in the picture it seems some are now other saying other aspects of the team, most notably Dak, make greater success unlikely. So, was Garrett and his staff the big issue, or is was it on the players and Dak in particular?

To expand on that, if the commonly discussed issues with Garrett and his staff were really a big hinderance - and I think most agree with that at least for the most part - how is it that we can’t believe a change with the head coach and staff won’t be a significant benefit to the entire team, including Dak? Surely the claim isn’t that Garrett and the staff held back every part of the team except QB.

 

[Runwildboys]

I’m pretty neutral on Dak, unlike most people who seem to be quit opinionated one way or the other. So out of curiosity, I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet, surprisingly enough.

There have been several players on this team, past and present, that obviously played under Garrett. IMO, some were over rated but always got the coaching excuse. What I mean by that is whether it be on defense or offense, if a player didn’t produce up to a lot of fans expectations it was rarely the players fault according to many, by far and large it fell on the coaching.

We have guys like Zeke, Dlaw, Byron, etc that some people can be a lot more productive with better coaching. Then you have guys like Romo, who allegedly Garrett “ruined his career” or “wasted his years”. Please spare me the Romo didn’t have good teams, he did and he had his chances.

Looking forward, I also hear how better McCarthy will utilize these players and how their production will increase, especially with QB’s. Dak has already put up plenty of pretty stats, unlike some of the other players that people think will improve with new coaching, and accomplished a good part of what Romo did in his entire career. He did it under Garrett, and as I said please spare the better team excuse. I don’t want to make this a Dak vs Romo thread but it’s the only example of QB vs QB we have under Garrett and it still applies to several other players.

So my question is, if all these other players get the Garrett/coaching excuse and Dak has already done considerably well under Garrett, and especially considering how some thing MM is a QB whisperer, why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt like all these other players instead of people saying how bad he is?

*and please don’t get carried way with the contract, if he gets the same benefit of the doubt that other players do because of past poor coaching then he would hypothetically be worth every bit of what he wants.

I think people see what Dak is doing on every offensive snap, whereas the other players don't handle the ball on every play and are therefore afforded some benefit of the doubt that they did the right thing, but the play put them in a bad position. There's also the fact that Dak is the leader of the offense, which puts him in charge of every play, thus placing blame for any mistake directly on him, unless it's obvious that Zeke fumbled, or whatever.

Maybe that has something to do with him being more closely scrutinized.

 

[OmerV]

I think people see what Dak is doing on every offensive snap, whereas the other players don't handle the ball on every play and are therefore afforded some benefit of the doubt that they did the right thing, but the play put them in a bad position. There's also the fact that Dak is the leader of the offense, which puts him in charge of every play, thus placing blame for any mistake directly on him, unless it's obvious that Zeke fumbled, or whatever.

Maybe that has something to do with him being more closely scrutinized.

This is true. The QB always gets more scrutiny and criticism, sometimes justified and sometimes not. But it’s also true that if terrible coaching has been a big barrier to the team having success, that would apply to the QB position just as with other aspects of the team. Accordingly, if we are going to say the change in coaching is a big benefit to the team, why wouldn’t that benefit also extend to the QB?

 

[cern]

Dak has played well to date. The team was hurt more with garrett coaching, be it dak or romo. Great qb stats can be had between the 20's. Romo gave us 3 years of 8-8. Dak put up impressive stats last year albeit 8-8. What i believe is we'll have a playoff season though dak's stats might not be as impressive. Romo's best year was 2014 when we were a balanced offense. I look for balance this year.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Lol, your new avatar is the best on the site. It seems on this board you have to love or hate Dak. Like you I have questions. I do believe he is a good quarterback who literally got a chance of a lifetime and took advantage of it. Would I love to have the next John Elway or Dan Marino on this team? Yes, but we know we are more then likely to have Bortles or Mariota if we let Jerrah and company draft a quarterback. The coaching will help if Jerrah stays out of the way and does not undercut MM. He hired one of the best special teams coordinator and that will probably help more then anything. Like you I think Romo had his chances. 2007 still makes me cry but we were lucky that Romo became a top 10 quarterback from being a undrafted free agent.

They drafted Dak in the 4th round and nailed it. Dak is currently ranked somewhere around the 8th best QB in the NFL and climbing. And this is only his 4th season. Brees and Brady retire and he very well may be in the top 5. Not sure you can ask for more then that.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I think people see what Dak is doing on every offensive snap, whereas the other players don't handle the ball on every play and are therefore afforded some benefit of the doubt that they did the right thing, but the play put them in a bad position. There's also the fact that Dak is the leader of the offense, which puts him in charge of every play, thus placing blame for any mistake directly on him, unless it's obvious that Zeke fumbled, or whatever.

Maybe that has something to do with him being more closely scrutinized.

I call them QB challenged fans. They see everything that happens on a football field as being something to do with the QB. They actually think the QB has the power to win or lose every game or championship. And because of that mental handicap they always have to have, it was Brady and now Hahomes. They use a Brady or a Mahomes in nearly every argument to try and prove their point.

The defense could give up 40 points, but if the QB had just hit a few more key passes we would have won...………..type nonsense.

Incomplete passes NEVER happen to Hahomes or any other QB's only to OUR QB. Sacks are a QB stat...…..yada yada yada.

And they always think that you can just go out and draft a QB in the first round next season and you will magically have the next generational QB on your roster. And they will be fully developed from day #1 and should be leading us to the SB.

Typically they don't see coaching as that important. Defense is a side bar.

 

[Runwildboys]

This is true. The QB always gets more scrutiny and criticism, sometimes justified and sometimes not. But it’s also true that if terrible coaching has been a big barrier to the team having success, that would apply to the QB position just as with other aspects of the team. Accordingly, if we are going to say the change in coaching is a big benefit to the team, why wouldn’t that benefit also extend to the QB?

I think it will, but those who simply think Dak is terrible will think the coaching will only help if they don't put the ball in Dak's hands any more than necessary.

 

[OmerV]

They drafted Dak in the 4th round and nailed it. Dak is currently ranked somewhere around the 8th best QB in the NFL and climbing. And this is only his 4th season. Brees and Brady retire and he very well may be in the top 5. Not sure you can ask for more then that.

This is a fair point and jives with a point I’ve made frequently - that if the elite Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers level QBs were easy to find as an improvement to Dak, it wouldn’t take going back to drafts 15-20 years ago to fill the majority of that small group of elites. The reality is if you have a QB that can be considered top 10 you better hold on to him unless some incredibly good fortune falls in your lap to provide a high likelihood of an upgrade.

 

[Rockport]

I’m pretty neutral on Dak, unlike most people who seem to be quit opinionated one way or the other. So out of curiosity, I have a question that I don’t think has been addressed yet, surprisingly enough.

There have been several players on this team, past and present, that obviously played under Garrett. IMO, some were over rated but always got the coaching excuse. What I mean by that is whether it be on defense or offense, if a player didn’t produce up to a lot of fans expectations it was rarely the players fault according to many, by far and large it fell on the coaching.

We have guys like Zeke, Dlaw, Byron, etc that some people can be a lot more productive with better coaching. Then you have guys like Romo, who allegedly Garrett “ruined his career” or “wasted his years”. Please spare me the Romo didn’t have good teams, he did and he had his chances.

Looking forward, I also hear how better McCarthy will utilize these players and how their production will increase, especially with QB’s. Dak has already put up plenty of pretty stats, unlike some of the other players that people think will improve with new coaching, and accomplished a good part of what Romo did in his entire career. He did it under Garrett, and as I said please spare the better team excuse. I don’t want to make this a Dak vs Romo thread but it’s the only example of QB vs QB we have under Garrett and it still applies to several other players.

So my question is, if all these other players get the Garrett/coaching excuse and Dak has already done considerably well under Garrett, and especially considering how some thing MM is a QB whisperer, why doesn’t he get the benefit of the doubt like all these other players instead of people saying how bad he is?

*and please don’t get carried way with the contract, if he gets the same benefit of the doubt that other players do because of past poor coaching then he would hypothetically be worth every bit of what he wants.

Being neutral says a lot about your football acumen.

 

[aria]

I’m sure some will disagree, but I think this is a fair question. It’s one I’ve thought of too. A lot blame most of the teams shortcomings on poor coaching, and that may well be fair to do, but now that Garrett isn’t in the picture it seems some are now other saying other aspects of the team, most notably Dak, make greater success unlikely. So, was Garrett and his staff the big issue, or is was it on the players and Dak in particular?

To expand on that, if the commonly discussed issues with Garrett and his staff were really a big hinderance - and I think most agree with that at least for the most part - how is it that we can’t believe a change with the head coach and staff won’t be a significant benefit to the entire team, including Dak? Surely the claim isn’t that Garrett and the staff held back every part of the team except QB.

Very well said, better then I phrased it myself.