Dak vs Derek Carr

[Denim Chicken]

So the David Carr passing competition thread got me thinking. There are many on this forum that have turned on Dak after this season—and not totally without merit. Dak undeniably had some struggles in his second year. The decline in his play can and has been attributed to the Offensive line and the WR group who both under-performed. Additionally the loss of Elliot factored in as well. However, Dak must be held accountable as well. His accuracy and decision making clearly regressed. He had a bad year.

The thing that bothers me, though, is that the conversation from a faction of the fans is that 2017 is who Dak is. He has regressed, 2017 was a fluke, and that we need to replace him as our QB. The argument is that without everything going right for him he cannot produce. This brings me back to the David Carr thread which got me thinking about his brother, Derek. Derek Carr is almost universally regarded as a top tier QB. He got the big contract from Oakland and no one second guesses it. To quote someone in this forum from last year, “Derek Carr is the next great NFL quarterback”. The funny thing is Dak and Derek have had two similar seasons in 2016 & 2017.

Both Prescott & Carr had their best seasons in 2016. Obviously Dak was rookie and Derek was in his third year starting so I’ll compare their common years.

2016

Dak 459/311 att/comp | 67.8% pct | 3667 yards | 8.0 avg | 23 TD | 4 int | 104.9 rate

Carr 560/357 att/comp | 63.8 pct | 3937 yards | 7.0 avg | 28 TD | 6 int | 96.7 rate

Both had great seasons in 2016 as can be seen by the stats above. Both lead their respective teams to the postseason. Dak also added around 300 yards and 6 TD rushing. I would argue that Dak had the better season in 2016, but that is not really what this is about.

2017

Dak 490/308 att/comp | 62.9% pct | 3324 yards | 6.8 avg | 22 TD | 13 int | 86.6 rate

Carr 515/323 att/comp | 62.7% pct | 3496 yards | 6.8 avg | 22TD | 13 int | 86.4 rate

Both QBs struggled. Both had down years. Their numbers are almost identical. Dak also added 350 yards and 6 TD rushing. Again, I would argue that Dak had the better year.


So here’s my point: Why is Prescott now somehow a lost cause, but Carr gets a pass? Dak has out preformed Derek for two years now. Both clubs have similar Oline and WR situations, yet the narrative on Prescott and Carr couldn’t be more different. Again, I think some of the criticism Dak is taking is warranted, but not to the extremes that we see now and I wanted to use this example to illustrate it.

 

[Gameover]

Who said he was a lost cause?

Many around here thought he sucked in 2016, so they don’t really count.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Who said he was a lost cause?

Lol, go check out the Kirk Cousins thread.

 

[Gameover]

Lol, go check out the Kirk Cousins thread.

Most of them are Romo fans who thought he was either no good or overrated in 2016.

 

[Bullflop]

I think Dak's main problem has been the OL's inability to pass protect well enough to allow him the time he needs to excel.

We seriously need to correct that failing during the upcoming season. He missed Ezekiel Elliott's pass blocking in addition.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Most of them are Romo fans who thought he was either no good or overrated in 2016.

There are many who were Dak fans until this year.

 

[Gameover]

There are many who were Dak fans until this year.

Short list of those who have completely given up on him. I’m actually more optimistic about him now than I was at this time last year. Let’s be honest, the odds of him maintaining that 2016 pace without a bump in the road were slim. QBing as a whole was down in 2017. A few exceptions but not a banner year for the position.

What Jerry said about these struggles that could and hopefully will make him better, has merit.

He knows he has work to do. I like his character. It’s up to the organization to get him the horses that match his skill set.

 

[visionary]

So the David Carr passing competition thread got me thinking. There are many on this forum that have turned on Dak after this season—and not totally without merit. Dak undeniably had some struggles in his second year. The decline in his play can and has been attributed to the Offensive line and the WR group who both under-performed. Additionally the loss of Elliot factored in as well. However, Dak must be held accountable as well. His accuracy and decision making clearly regressed. He had a bad year.

The thing that bothers me, though, is that the conversation from a faction of the fans is that 2017 is who Dak is. He has regressed, 2017 was a fluke, and that we need to replace him as our QB. The argument is that without everything going right for him he cannot produce. This brings me back to the David Carr thread which got me thinking about his brother, Derek. Derek Carr is almost universally regarded as a top tier QB. He got the big contract from Oakland and no one second guesses it. To quote someone in this forum from last year, “Derek Carr is the next great NFL quarterback”. The funny thing is Dak and Derek have had two similar seasons in 2016 & 2017.

Both Prescott & Carr had their best seasons in 2016. Obviously Dak was rookie and Derek was in his third year starting so I’ll compare their common years.

2016

Dak 459/311 att/comp | 67.8% pct | 3667 yards | 8.0 avg | 23 TD | 4 int | 104.9 rate

Carr 560/357 att/comp | 63.8 pct | 3937 yards | 7.0 avg | 28 TD | 6 int | 96.7 rate

Both had great seasons in 2016 as can be seen by the stats above. Both lead their respective teams to the postseason. Dak also added around 300 yards and 6 TD rushing. I would argue that Dak had the better season in 2016, but that is not really what this is about.

2017

Dak 490/308 att/comp | 62.9% pct | 3324 yards | 6.8 avg | 22 TD | 13 int | 86.6 rate

Carr 515/323 att/comp | 62.7% pct | 3496 yards | 6.8 avg | 22TD | 13 int | 86.4 rate

Both QBs struggled. Both had down years. Their numbers are almost identical. Dak also added 350 yards and 6 TD rushing. Again, I would argue that Dak had the better year.


So here’s my point: Why is Prescott now somehow a lost cause, but Carr gets a pass? Dak has out preformed Derek for two years now. Both clubs have similar Oline and WR situations, yet the narrative on Prescott and Carr couldn’t be more different. Again, I think some of the criticism Dak is taking is warranted, but not to the extremes that we see now and I wanted to use this example to illustrate it.

Dak is not a lost cause
Of course he can improve

But, Carr is a much better and accurate passer and that is THE most important attribute a QB has to have for long term success

Dak has not only not shown improvement but regressed in his mechanics

Dak also has a case of "Early Arrive-itis" where he thinks he's all that as evidenced by the fact that he did not progress between season 1 and 2

No matter what people on this board say, the fact is that doing commercials and multiple social engagements for money is a distraction and makes it a lot harder to focus

Give Dak to a coach like Parcells or Coughlin and he can blossom. Give him to a coach like Garrett and he is much less likely to.

Put these things together and I'm taking Carr all day over Dak

Just my .02

 

[Aven8]

Somewhere coaching has to be in there as well. They got rid of Wilson finally but I'm not sure Moore offers any new ideas that weren't shared the past 2 years.

 

[visionary]

Somewhere coaching has to be in there as well. They got rid of Wilson finally but I'm not sure Moore offers any new ideas that weren't shared the past 2 years.

I'm sure Moore doesn't

 

[CT Dal Fan]

To say Dak can't throw accurately because of this Carr thing (that Dak probably didn't even want to do) is ridiculous. Russell Wilson struggled doing something similar at the Pro Bowl Skills Competition a couple weeks ago.

Stationary targets do not have arms and hands. Go back this season and look at some of Dak's throws- the ones I remember is the TDs to Witten at San Francisco and the Giants. Inaccurate passers can't throw footballs like that.

Dak will never be the type of "pure" passer Romo was, but he doesn't have to be in this offense. Cam Newton will never be Drew Brees throwing the football, either, but that doesn't make Cam bad.

 

[cowboyec]

So the David Carr passing competition thread got me thinking. There are many on this forum that have turned on Dak after this season—and not totally without merit. Dak undeniably had some struggles in his second year. The decline in his play can and has been attributed to the Offensive line and the WR group who both under-performed. Additionally the loss of Elliot factored in as well. However, Dak must be held accountable as well. His accuracy and decision making clearly regressed. He had a bad year.

The thing that bothers me, though, is that the conversation from a faction of the fans is that 2017 is who Dak is. He has regressed, 2017 was a fluke, and that we need to replace him as our QB. The argument is that without everything going right for him he cannot produce. This brings me back to the David Carr thread which got me thinking about his brother, Derek. Derek Carr is almost universally regarded as a top tier QB. He got the big contract from Oakland and no one second guesses it. To quote someone in this forum from last year, “Derek Carr is the next great NFL quarterback”. The funny thing is Dak and Derek have had two similar seasons in 2016 & 2017.

Both Prescott & Carr had their best seasons in 2016. Obviously Dak was rookie and Derek was in his third year starting so I’ll compare their common years.

2016

Dak 459/311 att/comp | 67.8% pct | 3667 yards | 8.0 avg | 23 TD | 4 int | 104.9 rate

Carr 560/357 att/comp | 63.8 pct | 3937 yards | 7.0 avg | 28 TD | 6 int | 96.7 rate

Both had great seasons in 2016 as can be seen by the stats above. Both lead their respective teams to the postseason. Dak also added around 300 yards and 6 TD rushing. I would argue that Dak had the better season in 2016, but that is not really what this is about.

2017

Dak 490/308 att/comp | 62.9% pct | 3324 yards | 6.8 avg | 22 TD | 13 int | 86.6 rate

Carr 515/323 att/comp | 62.7% pct | 3496 yards | 6.8 avg | 22TD | 13 int | 86.4 rate

Both QBs struggled. Both had down years. Their numbers are almost identical. Dak also added 350 yards and 6 TD rushing. Again, I would argue that Dak had the better year.


So here’s my point: Why is Prescott now somehow a lost cause, but Carr gets a pass? Dak has out preformed Derek for two years now. Both clubs have similar Oline and WR situations, yet the narrative on Prescott and Carr couldn’t be more different. Again, I think some of the criticism Dak is taking is warranted, but not to the extremes that we see now and I wanted to use this example to illustrate it.

agreed.
Where Dak goes in yr3 is up to him.
after atlanta,he looked like he lost his confidence...Im betting he has a bounce back year.
Ive posted my reason why in other threads so I wont repeat myself.....in the midst of his worst season...he didnt quit.
Hes worth working on.

 

[glimmerman]

agreed.
Where Dak goes in yr3 is up to him.
after atlanta,he looked like he lost his confidence...Im betting he has a bounce back year.
Ive posted my reason why in other threads so I wont repeat myself.....in the midst of his worst season...he didnt quit.
Hes worth working on.

He took a beating in the falcons game. Thanks to Chaz and our staff not helping him. He ran for his life and looked over his shoulder and had a shorter internal clock after that. He had the happy feet.

 

[cowboyec]

He took a beating in the falcons game. Thanks to Chaz and our staff not helping him. He ran for his life and looked over his shoulder and had a shorter internal clock after that. He had the happy feet.

agreed.
after that game he looked like a young QB who lost his confidence.

 

[glimmerman]

agreed.
after that game he looked like a young QB who lost his confidence.

Yep, which was so odd to see considering how his rookie season he would stand tall in the pocket and stay poised. They need to roll him out this year. They needed to let him use his feet after the falcons game to back defenses off but our HC and OC just kept with the same plan. Week after week. I also think they tried to make him to much of a pocket passer and let him call to many audibles.

 

[Blue&Silver]

As Prescott gets more comfortable in the NFL he's going to be asked to throw the ball down the field more. That's not only the deep ball, but more importantly the intermediate passes where he seems awfully inaccurate. When that happens the interceptions are going to go way up..

These QB comparisons are worthless although we all like to do it. Mr. Carr goes down the field routinely, and intermediate passes seem very natural and easy for him. Prescott is not there.

It's like comparing Nick Foles to Tom Brady. The numbers are similar in a small sample size, but we know 1 is a Hall of Famer and one is a borderline starter.

 

[Asklesko]

Carr > Dak. Nuff said.

 

[rags747]

Carr had a crap year but you see that he can throw the ball to any spot on the field. Cam can also throw the ball to any spot on the field. Dak, we have not seen that ability as of now.

 

[WhizKid]

As far as this board goes, this may be a little out there, but I'm going to go with, and hear me out, because Carr plays for the Raiders.


Now as far as the sports world goes, I kind of agree with you. I would say Dak played on a better team, with a better line, and an actual legit running game. But really it was a matter of a lot of people overrating both teams, but moreso giving WAY too much credit to both coaching staffs.

 

[ShiningStar]

As far as this board goes, this may be a little out there, but I'm going to go with, and hear me out, because Carr plays for the Raiders.


Now as far as the sports world goes, I kind of agree with you. I would say Dak played on a better team, with a better line, and an actual legit running game. But really it was a matter of a lot of people overrating both teams, but moreso giving WAY too much credit to both coaching staffs.

great post, i personally feel, now this is opinion over fact but i feel our coaches didnt help Dak as much last season and didnt really plan for a dak friendly offense. in the same token we should be running more and our coaches failed to trust in the run.