David Arkin, anyone?

[Stash]

I think they do bring arkin in and see what happens. He has had ( WHAT WILL BE) 3 offseasons to make his move. Im pulling for him, just not counting on him.

I have no problem letting him stick around for the offseason and compete.

I just don't want his presence to affect decision-making in any way on the subject of the offensive line, including the eternally-optimistic and ever-mistaken owner's appraisal of the situation.

 

[cowboysooner]

it does not happen that often that lower round players become pro bowlers. Now and then but you look at the Pro Bowl Linemen over the last 10 years and you will find not many of them taken round 4 and later. Some of course but the majority- the large majority- are high round picks.

There were eight last year and seven this year. It is about 40% of the group and some of the pro bowl is self fulfilling draft profesy. Ie pouncey is good because that is the only center fans have heard of.


Especially at the interior spots it is math. There are 156 opening day starters and about 3-5 top two round picks per year.

 

[burmafrd]

There were eight last year and seven this year. It is about 40% of the group and some of the pro bowl is self fulfilling draft profesy. Ie pouncey is good because that is the only center fans have heard of.


Especially at the interior spots it is math. There are 156 opening day starters and about 3-5 top two round picks per year.

and some of them that were low round picks are also there on inertia.

and I did point out to look at the last 10 years not the last couple

 

[xwalker]

it does not happen that often that lower round players become pro bowlers. Now and then but you look at the Pro Bowl Linemen over the last 10 years and you will find not many of them taken round 4 and later. Some of course but the majority- the large majority- are high round picks.

I reviewed the Pro Bowl rosters over the past 10 years. There are 6 selections at OG per year including the alternates.

The average number of R4 and lower OGs in the Pro Bowl over the past 10 years is 20%. That is slightly more than 1 of the 6 Pro Bowl spots per year on average. There have been 3 in some years and zero in other years.

The average number of OGs selected in R1-R3 over the past 10 years is ~8 per year. This includes players listed as OT and OC that moved to OG in the NFL. If you conservatively estimate that good players should play at least 5 years, then there would be 5x8=40 OGs in the league in any given year that were originally drafted in rounds 1-3. Note, this is an estimate. Some will get cut before 5 years, but many will play longer than 5 years.

If 5 R1-R3 OGs make the Pro Bowl, then that is 5 of 40 or 12.5%.

Summary:
20% of Pro Bowl Guards were drafted in R4 or later.

12.5% of available R1-R3 Guards are selected to the Pro Bowl.

Other:
The Pro Bowl is probably not the best method of determining the success of players in general. If a team gets a multi-year starter in R4 or later, I would consider that a successful draft pick.

.

 

[burmafrd]

I reviewed the Pro Bowl rosters over the past 10 years. There are 6 selections at OG per year including the alternates.

The average number of R4 and lower OGs in the Pro Bowl over the past 10 years is 20%. That is slightly more than 1 of the 6 Pro Bowl spots per year on average. There have been 3 in some years and zero in other years.

The average number of OGs selected in R1-R3 over the past 10 years is ~8 per year. This includes players listed as OT and OC that moved to OG in the NFL. If you conservatively estimate that good players should play at least 5 years, then there would be 5x8=40 OGs in the league in any given year that were originally drafted in rounds 1-3. Note, this is an estimate. Some will get cut before 5 years, but many will play longer than 5 years.

If 5 R1-R3 OGs make the Pro Bowl, then that is 5 of 40 or 12.5%.

Summary:
20% of Pro Bowl Guards were drafted in R4 or later.

12.5% of available R1-R3 Guards are selected to the Pro Bowl.

Other:
The Pro Bowl is probably not the best method of determining the success of players in general. If a team gets a multi-year starter in R4 or later, I would consider that a successful draft pick.

.

someone like Kosier is fine with me. So by that measure yes.

 

[Reality]

I don't agree with that at all. No name linemen develop all the time around the league especially at the interior positions. We are just really bad at it but other places are taking fourth round and lower players who are becoming excellent players by their mid to late twenties.

It does happen but on teams with solid offensive lines that are not pressed to have their 6-8 (depth) offensive linemen ready to replace struggling starters. That said, if it happens around the league as often as you say (I don't agree with that), then it would be smarter to go sign or trade for those proven players than keep multiple project OL players on the roster when we need upgrades at 3 different OL positions.

/reality

 

[MissouriCowboy]

Arkin played at Missouri State. Question answered.

 

[jnday]

I don't agree with that at all. No name linemen develop all the time around the league especially at the interior positions. We are just really bad at it but other places are taking fourth round and lower players who are becoming excellent players by their mid to late twenties.

There shouldn't ever be a no-name lineman that a team hasn't scouted. The Cowboys know these players, or should know these them, but they do a poor job of evaluating talent when it comes to OL. Dallas has been known to grade olinemen a round or two lower than other teams. Other teams can develop these linemen because they can tell if the player has the tslent to develop.
Dallas is not in a position to afford waiting on these project olinemen at this time anyway. If they had a solid starting unit and some decent scouting, they could take time to develop some later round picks on the line. The Cowboys simply stink with their scouting in this area.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Why is it that every 4th rounder that we have each year we select a project from a small school? Yet it keeps failing year after year after year. Just shows how much of a joke we are in drafting.

 

[MissouriCowboy]

Why is it that every 4th rounder that we have each year we select a project from a small school? Yet it keeps failing year after year after year. Just shows how much of a joke we are in drafting.

I saw this guy play in college he was ok at D-1AA LEVEL. Not a NFL TYPE OF PLAYER.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

My hope is that they draft Barrett Jones. When was the last time Dallas had a good center again? Yeah.

I'm hoping for Womack or Jones, either one would be a solid pick and should go a long ways in solidifying the interior. Replace Free with a decent FA and then things would looking up for the OL.

 

[MissouriCowboy]

true true

 

[Bluefin]

I disagree. I think Arkin has some talent. We shall see.

I still have my fingers crossed.

Whatever David Arkin is, he's still on the roster as I'm typing.

He's only a 4th round pick.

The team was quick to blow its nose recently with ILB Jason Williams (3rd rd, '09), OT Robert Brewster (3rd rd, '09), S Akwasi Owusu-Ansah (4th rd, '10) and CB Josh Thomas (5th rd, '11).

Thomas was the next selection after Arkin in '11 and he didn't even survive final cuts. The other three all got Turked early on in their second seasons with the Cowboys.

Dallas isn't afraid to wide its hands clean asap when a draft choice simply isn't ready to make the roster.

Why is Arkin still here?

Am I wrong to think the small school project must have shown something positive to invite the team's patience?

How did you evaluate his talent, exactly? It's not like he could beat out a castaway from the Bengals or a guy who never started.

When did Arkin compete against them?

Ark had to move to C early in camp when the top three options were all injured. Kevin Kowalski never practiced a snap, Bill Nagy was quickly lost to a high ankle sprain and Phil Costa missed the majority of camp, too.

LG Mackenzy Bernadeau missed the entire off-season and a good bit of camp following hip and knee surgeries. RG Nate Livings also went down in camp.

There wasn't any competition going on with the OL dropping like flies, it was a complete fiasco.

he has had two years to build his strength. And still nothing. and as has been pointed out NO one even on the team is talking about him. Handwriting is on the wall.

Jerry Jones pimped Andre Holmes as a 3rd receiver candidate last off-season and DE Clifton Geathers also got talked up as being capable of making a push.

In the end, it's just talk.

One week Bryan Broaddus has Doug Free cut, the next he's firm on keeping Free and the next he's back to talking about cutting Free again.

Arkin and all the other hopefuls have to earn a spot come summer.

I hope we won't have wasted three years of development time like with QB Stephen McGee, but it may end the same way.

I hope Arkin is physically and mentally ready to put his best foot forward in 2013 because I'm a huge advocate of upgrading the OL this off-season.

Head coach Jason Garrett loves talking about creating competition on the roster whenever possible.

Bring it on.

 

[xwalker]

We have saved a roster spot for him ...... so what sort of production, if any, do we get out of him in 2013?

Just move him to FB/TE.

He has good speed/quickness.

 

[Wolfpack]

To add insult to injury, they drafted the guy with bad knees coming out of college. Geez, dont ya think knees might be important to a NFL player?

 

[jnday]

Just move him to FB/TE.

He has good speed/quickness.

The speed, quickness and footwork are the reasons he is still on the roster. He gets good position, but his lack of power prevents him from finishing his blocks. He has a good frame and size, but he needs to gain muscle mass and power. I don't think he is going to be able to gain enough strength to make it. With his footwork, tackle may be a better position, but I doubt it.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Arkin played at Missouri State. Question answered.

Larry Allen played at Sonoma St., Erik Williams at Central State, Nate Newton at Florida A&M. I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

 

[IrishAnto]

he has had two years to build his strength. And still nothing. and as has been pointed out NO one even on the team is talking about him. Handwriting is on the wall.

While he may have had two years, he's only had one full off-season.

I really don't see the problem with keeping him around until training camp and see how it goes.

It's not as if we have a boatload of young talent waiting to step up.

I don't have that much hope he'll make the grade but again I don't see why we couldn't let him sink or swim at camp.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think this is a very important off season for Arkin, while I would not write him off at this stage I would say he is at a cross road in his career. I would love to see him establish himself as a starter or at the least become dependable backup. That would go a long way in helping this team.

 

[AbeBeta]

Larry Allen played at Sonoma St., Erik Williams at Central State, Nate Newton at Florida A&M. I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

Actually the only point that has been made is about how people see hits but ignore misses.

If you look at the guys playing in the NFL, the prototype is a guy from a strong college program. Certainly there are exceptions, but they are far less common than you make them out to be.

Most guys from small schools haven't faced any legitimate competition. That makes selecting them a bit like selecting a high school player in MLB. You are betting on development but can very rarely expect the guy to step in and play well right off the bat.

Small school guys are great but most need time to develop. Nate Newton had three years of professional experience before he was starting (two years in the USFL and one year as a backup in Dallas). He was four years out of college.

Erik Wiliams and Larry Allen are exceptions -- and both were likely the best small college OL to come out of that generation. Williams would have been getting inducted to the HOF if he continued his pre-accident level of play. You can't simply point to the exceptions and think they are relevant to all small college players