Day one ready to start OLBs

[supercowboy8]

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
If we replace Spencer then it must be a replacement at #14.
Aldon Smith wasn't and still isn't a starter and he was drafted 7th overall.
Spencer wasn't even a starter day one, that how har dthis positon is to translate to.

 

[Doomsday101]

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
If we replace Spencer then it must be a replacement at #14.
Aldon Smith wasn't and still isn't a starter and he was drafted 7th overall.
Spencer wasn't even a starter day one, that how har dthis positon is to translate to.

I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

 

[Dcowboy84]

you make a valid point, however i think there would be different circumstances this year, depending on the player taken

when we got Spencer we still had Greg Ellis here who believed he could start, and ended up being comeback player of the year that season.

Spencer was also transitioning from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. we have to remember not all guys just jump in and do fantastic making that switch. even Ware had some trouble adjusting with some aspects of that move.

Aldon Smith is the same situation, making the move from DE to OLB. and when he's in from the games i've seen he is mainly rushing the passer and not doing the full load of a 3-4 OLB right now. so he's probably progressing as expected, if not better than expected based on his sack #'s.


so back to the main point, if we let Spencer go and draft a guy to be the replacement, he will get a whole offseason to be learning the position of 3-4 OLB, assuming it's a guy that didn't play in a 3-4 in college.

and depending on who you get he may be a guy that already is going to make an impact even though he'll have growing pains.

i think about a guy like Upshaw from Alabama. watching him play i think he could already step in day 1 after going through mini camps and training camp. however if you got a guy in the 3rd round or below you're rolling the dice.


as i started this post out you make a good point, i think it is just going to depend on the situation and the player

 

[supercowboy8]

I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

 

[supercowboy8]

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

OK but he wasn't a day one starter. Thats one player that you said he could have been, but the truth is that he wasn't.

 

[supercowboy8]

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?

 

[Doomsday101]

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.

 

[supercowboy8]

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.

you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

 

[supercowboy8]

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?

Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

 

[Doomsday101]

you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

 

[supercowboy8]

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

:laugh2:

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

 

[supercowboy8]

:laugh2:

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.

no, we need a day one starter, Branch in round 2 might be a good pick but I don't see him becoming a starter day one and has the ability to cover and stuff the run.
Branch is as athletic as Ingram and Upshaw. I like Branch but I think you haev to geta day one starting OLB if Spencer walks.

 

[jblaze2004]

Upshaw is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

 

[supercowboy8]

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

Ok I agree with that. I would BPA per need but if we sign a OG and CB in FA and Spencer walks then SOLB is the greatest need adn will over rank every ther position. Migh tmake a Upshaw and Ingram sneak up the draft board.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

ingram is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

So you would rather waste our first round pick on a pass rusher who doesn't rush the passer well, when we have so many other areas to fill?

lol.. come on now, and Spencer is anything but lazy. You must not pay attention to him on the field.