DCFanatic Radio - Why does Jerry think he's cute? - 2/17/09

[Arch Stanton]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry wasn't in a little financial trouble.

 

[odog422]

I'm sure he wants to win more than anything, but maybe his "downfall" is that he wants to do it HIS way!

Namely, that it is more important to Jerry that he receive all the credit, than it is to win.

If they're not winning, what credit is he receiving?! Right now, he's being blasted in forums like this and by the press for the team's recent failures and the only way he'll earn any kudos is by actually hoisting another Lombardi, so this statement makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. If he was constantly being showered w/ praise about how financially successful his team was, that's one thing, but anytime you hear his name nowadays it's usually to tear him down rather than pat him on the back. I'm sure the press he's receiving at the moment isn't exactly the way he wants to be perceived...

In the paragraph before you quote me, you say the same thing I said, but you then say you are confused by my statement?

If he wants to win but his "downfall" as you say, is that he wants to do it his way, then you are echoing me - namely, that it is more important that he receive the credit than win. Let me put it this way, his "downfall" stands in the way of winning. What's so confusing about that?

 

[Bach]

Jerry's becoming Al Davis, except all of Jerry's past success was due to him riding the coattails of others. He's never won anything by being fully in charge and micromanaging the team and staff.

 

[TNCowboy]

Good post, CL.

I used to think Jerry wanted to win more than anything, but I don't think that anymore.

I'm looking forward to the day when he will no longer be running the team.

I think Jerry does want to win, but only if he does it his way. Winning is always subservient to him doing things his way.

And why not? Fans have bought enough 30 year tickets at the new stadium to guarantee that he will have plenty of cushion to continue operating the same way.

 

[BehindEnemyLinez]

Originally Posted by odog422
Namely, that it is more important to Jerry that he receive all the credit, than it is to win.

Seems to me you're saying JJ DOESN'T care about winning...

Originally Posted by BehindEnemyLinez
I'm sure he wants to win more than anything, but maybe his "downfall" is that he wants to do it HIS way!

while I'm saying he DOES care about winning, but he thinks his way is the way to do so, even to a fault in many fans' opinions...My question to you is, how is JJ going to "earn/receive" any credit for the Dallas Cowboys as a successful franchise without WANTING, no, NEEDING the team to win? Ultimately, success is only measured in victories so wanting the accolades w/out wanting to win is virtually impossible.
credit=winning. To the victors goes the spoils. If anything, he WANTS to be CREDITED w/ running a SUCCESSFUL, WINNING franchise.

 

[Bach]

Seems to me you're saying JJ DOESN'T care about winning...

while I'm saying he DOES care about winning, but he thinks his way is the way to do so, even to a fault in many fans' opinions...My question to you is, how is JJ going to "earn/receive" any credit for the Dallas Cowboys as a successful franchise without WANTING, no, NEEDING the team to win? Ultimately, success is only measured in victories so wanting the accolades w/out wanting to win is virtually impossible.
credit=winning. To the victors goes the spoils. If anything, he WANTS to be CREDITED w/ running a SUCCESSFUL, WINNING franchise.

He wants to win by doing it his way and being the one credited with it. It's obviously more important to him to try to win with him being in full control than it is to have someone else run things and make most of the decisons like when Jimmy and Parcells were here.

We would've had a much better chance to win the last 15 years if he had hired a GM and good quality HC's and gave them their proper authority and power. BUT, that would mean if we won then someone else, like the HC and/or GM would get credit and not Jerry. So he'd rather do it his way than have someone else have control, even if having someone else in charge would give us a better chance to get a championship.

We've never won anything with Jerry hiring his soft, neutered HC's like Gailey, Campo or Wade and with Jerry micromanaging the staff hires and all personnel decisions. But that's the way Jerry wants it, instead of having a real football man run things.

 

[odog422]

Seems to me you're saying JJ DOESN'T care about winning...

while I'm saying he DOES care about winning, but he thinks his way is the way to do so, even to a fault in many fans' opinions...My question to you is, how is JJ going to "earn/receive" any credit for the Dallas Cowboys as a successful franchise without WANTING, no, NEEDING the team to win? Ultimately, success is only measured in victories so wanting the accolades w/out wanting to win is virtually impossible.
credit=winning. To the victors goes the spoils. If anything, he WANTS to be CREDITED w/ running a SUCCESSFUL, WINNING franchise.

Semantics. I don't understand why it's so hard -- I didn't say he didn't want to win, I said it was more important that he receive credit than it is he wins. You're saying what I'm saying just in a different way.

To answer your question, he won't receive "credit" and he hasn't, as evidenced by this board, the media and most people I know, anyway. I didn't say he didn't want to win, I said it's more important to him that he receive credit for winning.

When Jerry receded publically into the background behind Jimmy and Parcells, the franchise was successful and moving positively. And Jerry even got credit for hiring those guys. But ultimately, it wasn't enough for Jerry. Or else he never wouldve hired the likes of Campo, Gailey or Wade, guys who he could undercut and run roughshod over while publically he became the face of all things Cowboys.

Unfortunately, whenever he has taken that tack, i.e., run the team behind his ego, we have won nothing.

 

[jterrell]

Semantics. I don't understand why it's so hard -- I didn't say he didn't want to win, I said it was more important that he receive credit than it is he wins. You're saying what I'm saying just in a different way.

To answer your question, he won't receive "credit" and he hasn't, as evidenced by this board, the media and most people I know, anyway. I didn't say he didn't want to win, I said it's more important to him that he receive credit for winning.

When Jerry receded publically into the background behind Jimmy and Parcells, the franchise was successful and moving positively. And Jerry even got credit for hiring those guys. But ultimately, it wasn't enough for Jerry. Or else he never wouldve hired the likes of Campo, Gailey or Wade, guys who he could undercut and run roughshod over while publically he became the face of all things Cowboys.

Unfortunately, whenever he has taken that tack, i.e., run the team behind his ego, we have won nothing.

newsflash!
Jerry has always run the team behind his ego.
Hiring Jimmy? Extremely arrogant move on Jones' part.

He hired all of those other coaches in the same vein.
None ever had final personal say, none could ever draft a player without Jones' sign off.

Jerry's ego brought in Aikman when Jimmy didn't want him.
Jerry's ego elevated Lacewell over every decent NFL brain.
Jerry's ego went around the league to market Dallas separately.
Jerry's ego drafted Russell Maryland over Rocket Ismail because Maryland would sign a deal for what Jerry wanted to pay.
Jerry's ego brought about the Herschel trade because Jerry wasn't paying Walker "QB" money.

Our fans are seriously deluding themselves and now live in a fantasy world. If you seriously dislike Jerry Jones you simply must find a new team because the Dallas Cowboys ARE HIS team. Period. Complaining about him is pointless and futile.

NEWSFLASH2: Jerry isn't more concerned with money than winning. Jerry could sell the Cowboys right now and make 10x what he paid for the team in just his share. He isn't gonna do it. He is going to try and utilize his business savvy to make money but he is never going to fall 40-50 mil the salary cap to do so. He isn't a cheap guy. He has always paid his talent and even to the detriment of the team when he exceeded the cap and had to eventually eat tons of dead money. BTW, the Cowboys make a ton more money if they win. A TON. Winning is in fact good for business.

 

[Bach]

newsflash!
Jerry has always run the team behind his ego.
Hiring Jimmy? Extremely arrogant move on Jones' part.

He hired all of those other coaches in the same vein.
None ever had final personal say, none could ever draft a player without Jones' sign off.


Jerry's ego brought in Aikman when Jimmy didn't want him.
Jerry's ego elevated Lacewell over every decent NFL brain.
Jerry's ego went around the league to market Dallas separately.
Jerry's ego drafted Russell Maryland over Rocket Ismail because Maryland would sign a deal for what Jerry wanted to pay.
Jerry's ego brought about the Herschel trade because Jerry wasn't paying Walker "QB" money.

Our fans are seriously deluding themselves and now live in a fantasy world. If you seriously dislike Jerry Jones you simply must find a new team because the Dallas Cowboys ARE HIS team. Period. Complaining about him is pointless and futile.

NEWSFLASH2: Jerry isn't more concerned with money than winning. Jerry could sell the Cowboys right now and make 10x what he paid for the team in just his share. He isn't gonna do it. He is going to try and utilize his business savvy to make money but he is never going to fall 40-50 mil the salary cap to do so. He isn't a cheap guy. He has always paid his talent and even to the detriment of the team when he exceeded the cap and had to eventually eat tons of dead money. BTW, the Cowboys make a ton more money if they win. A TON. Winning is in fact good for business.

Thanks for the B.S.

The only ones deluding themselves are those who claim Jerry has always done things the same way.

Jerry didn't make the decisions on the majority of the personnel moves in the first five years. He may have always had "FINAL SAY", but having someone like Jimmy make the decisions with Jerry signing off on them is totally different from Jerry making the decisions to begin with.

And Jerry didn't micromanage Jimmy or Parcells staffs. Jimmy had full control over his entire coaching staff and didn't hire anyone he didn't want. That is entirely different from what we have now and what we had when Campo, Gailey and Switzer were the 'head coach'.

Those first 3-4 years, Jerry was busy taking care of the financial aspects of the team while Jimmy and staff ran the show. Later, Jerry and his ego wanted more say and credit and eventually ran Jimmy off. He finally backed up after he ran the team into the ground and ran to Parcells to try and have him fix the mess. But now we're back to Jerry trying to be in full control again. Probably won't be too long before we're back to the 5-11 days again.

 

[Chief]

If you seriously dislike Jerry Jones you simply must find a new team because the Dallas Cowboys ARE HIS team. Period. Complaining about him is pointless and futile.

Finding another team, isn't an option, JT.

I was a fan of this team a long time before Jerry came on the scene, and I'll still be here when he's dead and Stephen is running things.

I'm a patient person.

For now though, I'll complain all I want.

 

[silver]

Thanks for the B.S.

The only ones deluding themselves are those who claim Jerry has always done things the same way.

Jerry didn't make the decisions on the majority of the personnel moves in the first five years. He may have always had "FINAL SAY", but having someone like Jimmy make the decisions with Jerry signing off on them is totally different from Jerry making the decisions to begin with.

And Jerry didn't micromanage Jimmy or Parcells staffs. Jimmy had full control over his entire coaching staff and didn't hire anyone he didn't want. That is entirely different from what we have now and what we had when Campo, Gailey and Switzer were the 'head coach'.

Those first 3-4 years, Jerry was busy taking care of the financial aspects of the team while Jimmy and staff ran the show. Later, Jerry and his ego wanted more say and credit and eventually ran Jimmy off. He finally backed up after he ran the team into the ground and ran to Parcells to try and have him fix the mess. But now we're back to Jerry trying to be in full control again. Probably won't be too long before we're back to the 5-11 days again.

I agree with most of your post except for the 5-11 days again thing.

Jerry is stubborn but not stupid.

If we have another 9-7 season or 10-6 season and miss the playoffs he'll come back to his senses and hire another HC/GM-formula-type like he did in the Jimmy/BP's tenures.

I wholeheartedly agree that he wants to win "his way" only to prove the naysayers wrong. Nothing will give more pleasure than to be proven wrong by Jerry but I seriously doubt it will happen.

 

[jterrell]

Thanks for the B.S.

The only ones deluding themselves are those who claim Jerry has always done things the same way.

Jerry didn't make the decisions on the majority of the personnel moves in the first five years. He may have always had "FINAL SAY", but having someone like Jimmy make the decisions with Jerry signing off on them is totally different from Jerry making the decisions to begin with.

And Jerry didn't micromanage Jimmy or Parcells staffs. Jimmy had full control over his entire coaching staff and didn't hire anyone he didn't want. That is entirely different from what we have now and what we had when Campo, Gailey and Switzer were the 'head coach'.

Those first 3-4 years, Jerry was busy taking care of the financial aspects of the team while Jimmy and staff ran the show. Later, Jerry and his ego wanted more say and credit and eventually ran Jimmy off. He finally backed up after he ran the team into the ground and ran to Parcells to try and have him fix the mess. But now we're back to Jerry trying to be in full control again. Probably won't be too long before we're back to the 5-11 days again.

Jerry has always done things the same way. Period.

Who says so?
The person who most knows... HIM.

He trusted Jimmy Johnson and thus Jimmy had a ton more influence.
In fact Jimmy's influence is why we RAN all the real personnel guys off.

We went to scouting and drafting based largely on asst coaches input.

That made some small level of sense in the early days of jimmy being here because his staff had been grading and recruiting high school kids so they knew a lot about those coming out for a couple of seasons.

But Jerry's basic methods have always been with him as the leader and controller of all. Jerry was right there on the sideline during Jimmy's days. He went right into the locker room.

Now were Jimmy and Bill different than other coaches? YES. But Jerry has been the same.

Bill was here when we brought in T.O. in case you have forgotten.

Bill Parcells did a good job of using perception to shape thoughts that he had authority that he in fact never really did. He also did a good job of ruling over the team. I wish Wade would do more of it.

Anyone with a brain realizes there were plenty of moves made under Jimmy and Bill that were 100% Jerry Jones. Jerry had kids on the phone on draft day before we would draft them forcing them to agree to contract terms.... You think that was Jimmy Johnson????

 

[odog422]

newsflash!
Jerry has always run the team behind his ego.
Hiring Jimmy? Extremely arrogant move on Jones' part.

He hired all of those other coaches in the same vein.
None ever had final personal say, none could ever draft a player without Jones' sign off.

Jerry's ego brought in Aikman when Jimmy didn't want him.
Jerry's ego elevated Lacewell over every decent NFL brain.
Jerry's ego went around the league to market Dallas separately.
Jerry's ego drafted Russell Maryland over Rocket Ismail because Maryland would sign a deal for what Jerry wanted to pay.
Jerry's ego brought about the Herschel trade because Jerry wasn't paying Walker "QB" money.

Our fans are seriously deluding themselves and now live in a fantasy world. If you seriously dislike Jerry Jones you simply must find a new team because the Dallas Cowboys ARE HIS team. Period. Complaining about him is pointless and futile.

Chief beat me to it, but the sentiments are exactly the same. Was a Cowboys fan before Jerry and will continue to be. And I too, will complain all I want, if I believe the one in control is acting in a way detrimental to the team's success.

As for his ego, yes it's always been present. But if you're saying that his day to day role while Jimmy and Parcells was here was the same as it's been when they weren't, that's simply not true.

NEWSFLASH2: Jerry isn't more concerned with money than winning. Jerry could sell the Cowboys right now and make 10x what he paid for the team in just his share. He isn't gonna do it. He is going to try and utilize his business savvy to make money but he is never going to fall 40-50 mil the salary cap to do so. He isn't a cheap guy. He has always paid his talent and even to the detriment of the team when he exceeded the cap and had to eventually eat tons of dead money. BTW, the Cowboys make a ton more money if they win. A TON. Winning is in fact good for business.

I don't know what this is in response to. But I agree they make more money when they win. Jerry knows this as well, which is why after 3 5-11 seasons, he sought out Parcells and radically changed his day to day role.

 

[Bach]

Jerry has always done things the same way. Period.

Now were Jimmy and Bill different than other coaches? YES. But Jerry has been the same.

Jerry hiring guys like Jimmy and Parcells and basically letting them run things as opposed to Jerry hiring guys like Switzer, Gailey, Campo and now Wade who are/were just HC's in name only while Jerry ran the whole show including hiring most of their staff and micromanaging every aspect proves that Jerry has not always done things the same way.

You have Jerry letting guys like Jimmy and Parcells make most of the decisons compared to Jerry having puppets as HC's with Jerry making the majority of the decisions.

What part of that don't you understand?

 

[Bach]

I agree with most of your post except for the 5-11 days again thing.

Jerry is stubborn but not stupid.

If we have another 9-7 season or 10-6 season and miss the playoffs he'll come back to his senses and hire another HC/GM-formula-type like he did in the Jimmy/BP's tenures.

I wholeheartedly agree that he wants to win "his way" only to prove the naysayers wrong. Nothing will give more pleasure than to be proven wrong by Jerry but I seriously doubt it will happen.

It's possible he'll revert course again before we get to 5-11, but you'd think after the Switzer, Gailey, Campo fiasco's that he would've learned already. At this point, with him returning to that failed formula, I just see him entrenched in "doing it his way" for the foreseeable future.

Like has been said, even though he wants to win, he'd still rather lose doing things his way than win someone else's way. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Alexander]

I was a fan of this team a long time before Jerry came on the scene, and I'll still be here when he's dead and Stephen is running things.

That is what each and every one of the "like it or lump it" crowd needs to hear.

Many of us were fans of the franchise long before Jones arrived and do not identify it with whatever individual who happened to be able to buy it 20 years ago.

 

[Hostile]

That is what each and every one of the "like it or lump it" crowd needs to hear.

Many of us were fans of the franchise long before Jones arrived and do not identify it with whatever individual who happened to be able to buy it 20 years ago.

I'm glad he's the owner. Sometimes I am glad he's the GM. Other times I am critical of him as GM.

I don't see why that is wrong in the eyes of so many who are purely critical of every move he makes. If you support Jerry in any transaction it means you "approve of 5-11 seasons." It is actually a waste of good synapses to even read some of the stuff (both ways). I try and be balanced. There is no such thing allowed. If I am supportive it means I loved Campo. if I am critical it means I am not a true fan and I should go find another team.

I think both extreme sides of that argument are full of crap clear up to their tonsils.

 

[LatinMind]

I'm glad he's the owner. Sometimes I am glad he's the GM. Other times I am critical of him as GM.

I don't see why that is wrong in the eyes of so many who are purely critical of every move he makes. If you support Jerry in any transaction it means you "approve of 5-11 seasons." It is actually a waste of good synapses to even read some of the stuff (both ways). I try and be balanced. There is no such thing allowed. If I am supportive it means I loved Campo. if I am critical it means I am not a true fan and I should go find another team.

I think both extreme sides of that argument are full of crap clear up to their tonsils.

nice way to put it.

im a cowboys fan, i dont care what jerry does or doesnt do to keep fans happy. its his money. me personally i like whats in dallas. they dont really have a serious hole in any part of the team. their problems are fixable, and just need tweeking.

alot of people are too critical on what went wrong a the end of the yr. but ill remind people that the 3 teams dallas loss to at the end of the yr were all in the conference championships. so its not like they were losing to teams that they had no buisness losing too. them 3 teams were actually probably playing the best football at the end of the yr.

im looking forward to see what dallas does in 09, IMO wether the media or pesimistic cowboy fans believe or not they're contenders when the season starts. they just have to right a few wrongs and i think they'll be the superbowl.

if garrett can start using TO and Roy to their strengths they cant be stopped. and maybe just maybe garrett can discover the concept of the slant, and god willing the use of motion.

romo needs to rub up on owens and hopefully some of his work ethic will rub off on him. and owens needs a little humility.

the defense needs to find out if its a zone team or a man to man because clearly they arent both.

but most of all, this team needs to just become a team.

 

[BehindEnemyLinez]

Originally Posted by Hostile
I'm glad he's the owner. Sometimes I am glad he's the GM. Other times I am critical of him as GM.

Agreed.

 

[Bach]

That is what each and every one of the "like it or lump it" crowd needs to hear.

Many of us were fans of the franchise long before Jones arrived and do not identify it with whatever individual who happened to be able to buy it 20 years ago.

Hard to believe it's been 20 years already. I just thank God he hired his buddy Jimmy in '89 and not his buddy Barry back then, or we wouldn't have had any success in those 20 years.