Defense a colossal personnel failure?

[ScipioCowboy]

Consider all the organizational resources committed to the Cowboy defense over the past several years: 11 first round picks and a number of lucrative contracts. Now, consider this defense’s production over the past 2 to 3 years.

My question to you is an honest one: Does this defense represent a personnel failure of immense proportion?

Despite appearances, this isn't a leading question. I want honest opinions, even where they conflict.

 

[CF74]

When the O leaves you bad field position all day, can't sustain drives, you eventually get tired. Blame Garrrett....

 

[Asklesko]

TO calling plays

 

[Hypnotoad]

There is mediocre talent on this defense, but mediocre can be enough in this league. I remember in previous years, that there was no way we would get a stop, and giving up a touchdown was guaranteed. We would need to outscore the opponent, counting on the defense to save us was never an option. New Orleans game 2?? year ago 42-17 (the exposed game)? Zimmers last few games? Remember those? December meltdowns?

I am pleased that we don't always allow TDs even if our offense puts us in bad field position. We can get 3 and outs. We can have games where defense limits opponent to fieldgoals only. When was the last time we didn't let a team have a touchdown? I looked it up Nov 22, the thanksgiving game last year we clobbered the jets, on a short week 34-3. Before that October 15 2006, a 34-6 Texans beatdown.

I feel that we need to make some changes. I feel Ellis has not been contributing enough, and that Spencer should take his starting place. I feel like we need to make adjustments, but I am not sure the coaches are willing to do that. I fear wade is trying to be the players' friend, rather than their coach.

I think things are better than they appear.

 

[CF74]

TO calling plays

It's a joke but the reality is that it can't get any worse

 

[RainMan]

What's perplexing is that when you go down the line talent-wise, the group isn't lacking that significantly. They're not the most talented defense in the league by any means, but tehy're not as bad as their play would indicate.

Where they're lacking is they just don't exhibit a single trait that typically is identified with a tough, stingy unit. There's no tone-setter, no intimidation factor, nothing schematically that teams must fear or prepare for. On top of that, they're a soft bunch with thin skin, which is exactly the type of personality you absolutely do not want on that side of the ball.

When you think defense, you naturally think of a bloodied nose, torn jerseys, anger, intensity -- things of those sorts. When you think Dallas defense, the mental image you get is a defender standing there, arms flailing, pointing at someone else for allowing the TD that was just given up.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

There is mediocre talent on this defense, but mediocre can be enough in this league. I remember in previous years, that there was no way we would get a stop, and giving up a touchdown was guaranteed. We would need to outscore the opponent, counting on the defense to save us was never an option. New Orleans game 2?? year ago 42-17 (the exposed game)? Zimmers last few games? Remember those? December meltdowns?

I am pleased that we don't always allow TDs even if our offense puts us in bad field position. We can get 3 and outs. We can have games where defense limits opponent to fieldgoals only. When was the last time we didn't let a team have a touchdown? I looked it up Nov 22, the thanksgiving game last year we clobbered the jets, on a short week 34-3. Before that October 15 2006, a 34-6 Texans beatdown.

I feel that we need to make some changes. I feel Ellis has not been contributing enough, and that Spencer should take his starting place. I feel like we need to make adjustments, but I am not sure the coaches are willing to do that. I fear wade is trying to be the players' friend, rather than their coach.

I think things are better than they appear.

Part of me still believes that the defense is better than what it has generally shown over the past two years. Eventually, though, potential gives way to actual production. And with all the resources committed to this defense, shouldn't we expect more than mediocre?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

If the play of any one person could be deemed promising after this debacle, it would be Anthony Spencer's play. Although he made several mistakes, he played with a speed and intensity that Ellis has lacked all season. Spencer should be starting after the bye week.

 

[Viper]

This team lacks the basics, it doesn't know how to tackle. The players are there, they just don't wrap up. Penalties are killing both sides of the ball. We stop the other team, yet we get that yellow flag. Our problems are discipline, we have none.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Part of me still believes that the defense is better than what it has generally shown over the past two years. Eventually, though, potential gives way to actual production. And with all the resources committed to this defense, shouldn't we expect more than mediocre?

We aren't going to get any quick solutions to the defense. We are stuck with mediocre because of long term contracts to mediocre players. There are serious problems there that have been plaguing us for years. Wade identified the problem we had with our secondary. We signed Pacman and drafted 4 corners in the last 2 years (Ball, Scandrick, Brown, and Jenkins).

I think having injuries to starting CBs caused these players to have to develop quicker. I was listening to an interview with Jenkins and he said that its exhausting, hes already played more games than he did in college. Wade wants the defense to confuse opposing teams. He wants it so you never know which 4/5 will be blitzing. That's why we have Ware/Ellis dropping back into coverage. Because someone else like Scandrick or Hamlin is blitzing. This is great, but relies on the corners to maintain coverage and for the pressure to get there. I don't think that is something you could do with mediocre.

Anyway, we are improving, but it needs to be quicker. This bye will be an excellent time for coaches to stress the fundementals.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I apologize for bumping my own thread. But I'm searching for more feedback.

 

[Chief]

I apologize for bumping my own thread. But I'm searching for more feedback.

I think Rainman summed it up perfectly.

Jerry, knowing the high picks and money spent on that side of the ball, hired Wade specifically to get the most out of his investment. That's one of several reasons why Wade will be fired a day or two after the Cowboys' season ends.

I think the Cowboys' front office and we, as fans, have overrated some of these guys, but the talent is there to be much better than they are.

I was watching some videos of the 1970s Cowboys a couple of weeks ago and it was amazing how organized and effective the team's defense was back then. This franchise has a proud history of defense, hence Doomsday. It's sad.

To answer your question, it is a huge failure.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Jerry has absolutley hitched his wagon to the wrong horses on this defense. I have said the following over and over again....there are at MOST 2 guys that good teams in the NFL would take over there guys...Ware and Newman. So this defense was NEVER a defense that was going to carry this team. But that is not just the case on defense. This team is full of mental midgets. Which is why Jerry should have NEVER brought the extra attention and pressure that Hard Knocks brings. The Cowboys are only interested in the glamour side of football....big plays...big blowouts.....12 win season. If the defense has to play more than 3 downs on a series...forget it, they will mail it in....it's almost as if they are embarassed they did not get a 3 and out...so they will just let the other team score and try again. If this offense cannot score on big pretty plays...forget it.....they would just assume punt and try on the next drive. Hard Knocks brought a sense of "Hollywood" to this team....and actually have to role up their sleaves and play football has gotten lost in Dallas. Too many guys celebrating when down 2 scores. Too many guys trying to sack the QB on every play...or trying to make the Pro Bowl on every play....or trying to erase a 21 point defecit on every play...in other words...too many guys trying to be THE playmaker on every play. Sometimes you need to be the guy that sets the edge and forces a guy back inside, so that a teamate can make a play...sometimes you need to be a guy that forces the QB to step up in the pocket into the arms of a teamate...sometimes you need to be the guy that runs the clearing route so that a teamate can make the catch...sometimes you need to be the guy that holds his block for another second, so a teamate can make the play...we are NOT a team. And there is not much Jerry can do to shake it up. THere is a reason that 5 out of our last 6 1st round picks are not regular starters..it is because we have young veterans locked into long term lucractive deals...and there is not room in the starting lineup. But it is time to start sitting some of these people. IF EVER THERE WAS A TIME TO SEE IF DOUG FREE COULD PLAY...it was with the BACKUP QB. If there was ever a time to see if Holland can play, it was with the backup QB in there. It is time to sit Greg Ellis. It is time to sit Henry in lieu of Scnadrick, not play Jenkins because HE was the 1st round pick. Chris Canty is a free agent at the end of the year. Tank Johnson is a free agent at the end of the year. It is time to see if Jason Hatcher can play. And playing these guys does NOT mean we are thrwoing in the towel...it means that the guys behind then cannot be that much worse and it might get a sense of urgency back in this team. Jerry Jones is SO prone to hyperbole he just HAS to have everyone that HE THINKS is irreplaceable. I mean Ken Hamlin? Come on. Jason Garrett?

It is the job of the GM to be able to evaluate if a particlar player or coach is the main reason we are playing well...or if they are just a PART of the bigger picture and can be easily replaced. Jason Garrett struggled without TO last year and the 2nd time through the division. Jason Garret has come to a screaching halt without ROmo....not exactly the stuff you want to associate with the highest paid offensive coordinator in the HISTORY of the NFL. So with that backdrop, Jerry should have evaluated Garrett.

Brad Johnson's arm has been done for a while...is the job of the GM to evaulate if Brad could make ANY plays if he had to play...not only can Brad not make big plays...he cannot make small plays...that is a collosal failure from the top down...and that too can be place at the feet of Garrett.

If you trade/cut/let walk/assign to the practice squad away all of your veteran RBs...then draft 2 rookies...what good is it to put Barber in a role has not been in since junior high? And I am guessing the excuse if that Choice and Jones are rookies? Well you DECIDED to go with rookies, so I assume that means YOU decided they were ready to contribute. So why are working Barber like a mule to get 2 yards a carry?

I could keep going, but you wanted more feedback and this is just a sampling...bottom line...I do not care if you have Randy Moss, TO, Tomlison and Brady in your backfield...the way this OL is playing would make any offense look bad....the offensive line ultimatley controls all phases of the game...dictates tempo....provides rhythm, and makes playcalling easy. The OL has been so bad that ALL of the guys we thought were Pro Bowl talents look like ordinary joes!

 

[AdamJT13]

I apologize for bumping my own thread. But I'm searching for more feedback.

The defense isn't a "colossal" failure of "immense proportions." It's a pretty good defense overall, it just hasn't played well at times.

And I'm not sure where you're getting us committing 11 first-round draft picks to the defense. You have to go all the way back to Robert Jones in 1992 to get 11 first-round picks for the defense. We've used seven this decade, but three of them have been injured this season and have barely played, and another is a rookie. That leaves Ware (perhaps the best defensive player in the NFL), Spears (a solid starter) and Carpenter (a bust).

 

[TheCount]

The defense isn't a "colossal" failure of "immense proportions." It's a pretty good defense overall, it just hasn't played well at times.

And I'm not sure where you're getting us committing 11 first-round draft picks to the defense. You have to go all the way back to Robert Jones in 1992 to get 11 first-round picks for the defense. We've used seven this decade, but three of them have been injured this season and have barely played, and another is a rookie. That leaves Ware (perhaps the best defensive player in the NFL), Spears (a solid starter) and Carpenter (a bust).

You wouldn't happen to know how much money we have tied up in our D in comparison to teams that get similar production would you? If it's too much work to dig it up, don't worry about it, I'm just curious.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

The defense isn't a "colossal" failure of "immense proportions." It's a pretty good defense overall, it just hasn't played well at times.

And I'm not sure where you're getting us committing 11 first-round draft picks to the defense. You have to go all the way back to Robert Jones in 1992 to get 11 first-round picks for the defense. We've used seven this decade, but three of them have been injured this season and have barely played, and another is a rookie. That leaves Ware (perhaps the best defensive player in the NFL), Spears (a solid starter) and Carpenter (a bust).

I don't know where I got 11. There's Ellis, Newman, Williams, Ware, Spears, Carpenter, Spencer, and Jenkins. That's 8.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

You wouldn't happen to know how much money we have tied up in our D in comparison to teams that get similar production would you? If it's too much work to dig it up, don't worry about it, I'm just curious.

without looking it up I would say we EASILY have the most expensive secondary in the NFL...then again 3 out of our 4 starters in the secondary made the Pro Bowl. I mean think about that for a second...75% of our secondary made the Pro Bowl. Roy was a top 8 pick and has received 2 BIG signing bonuses from the Cowboys. Newman was a top 5 pick and has recieved 2 BIG signing bonuses...Henry revceived a double digit signing bonus...Hamlin reveiced double digits in guaranteed millions...Jenkins is a 1st round pick...Pac Man is a former top 7 pick...that is in our secondary alone

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think the Cowboys' front office and we, as fans, have overrated some of these guys, but the talent is there to be much better than they are.

I was watching some videos of the 1970s Cowboys a couple of weeks ago and it was amazing how organized and effective the team's defense was back then. This franchise has a proud history of defense, hence Doomsday. It's sad.

To answer your question, it is a huge failure.

But Chief, look at those Doomsday defenses. It depends on which Doomsday version you mean, of course, but take a line of Harvey Martin, Randy White, John Dutton, and Too Tall Jones. That's a #1 overall pick, a #2 overall pick, a #5 overall pick, and a lower-drafted player (still 3rd round though) in Martin who was one of the best sack artists of all time.

What a collection! We don't have anything within light years of that.

Even look at the better teams of today like the Patriots with three 1st rounders on their line, or the Jags for years with Stroud and Henderson. Any really good defensive team has at least one true beast up front, and preferably a couple. We don't have any -- and what's worse, we haven't even tried in years with the exception of Spears, who is a proven JAG.

To the OPs point, this is why all the talk of "We have so many #1s on this D!" rings hollow to me. For one thing, some of those #1s are older (Ellis) or average (Spears) or just suck (Carpenter.) For another, every team that's good on defense spends a lot of resources on a good defense -- that's what Jimmy was doing when he got Casillas, Maryland, and Haley together. It's just necessary if you want to have a good team, and if anything we haven't done it enough lately. We're too busy with the glitzy fantasy football positions like wide receiver.

 

[rangers71]

When the O leaves you bad field position all day, can't sustain drives, you eventually get tired. Blame Garrrett....

Exactly what should Garrett have done that would have changed anything in this game? He had two JV quarterbacks playing against an 8 and 9 man front.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Exactly what should Garrett have done that would have changed anything in this game? He had two JV quarterbacks playing against an 8 and 9 man front.

Garrett sold Jerry on BOTH guys!!!!!