Defense late in games

[Stautner]

I want to start by saying that I love what we are doing on defense, and I love the attitude and agression and attacking style we are playing with.

But I still have to wonder where that defense goes late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The last 2 weeks we have backed off and allowed Stafford and Brady to get comfortable in the pocket late in the game.

I understand we are dropping more into coverage, and I understand you have to be careful not to give up the big play, but a QB the quality of Brady is going to find receivers if he has all the time he needs, and Stafford is proving to be no slouch either. Seems ike we could have at least mixed things up and attacked some so that the QB couldn't get so comfortable in the pocket, and to give us a chance to make a big play rather than just playing to prevent the big play.

 

[rcaldw]

I'm with you on this. I haven't looked at it closely, but I'm guessing we had to change some things up on the last 2:00 of the game Sunday.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I still don't fault the defense on Sunday. They held the best O and best QB in football to 20 points.

But I will say that many of us noticed that this is maybe the one thing that Browns fans complained about with Rob.

 

[Ren]

Ask a defense any defense to stop megatron on the goal line and Brady in a 2 minute drill, most will fail. Our D is as good as i've seen them in years if the offense could actually do their part we'd be pretty damn good

 

[shockandroll]

I want to start by saying that I love what we are doing on defense, and I love the attitude and aggression and attacking style we are playing with.

But I still have to wonder where that defense goes late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The last 2 weeks we have backed off and allowed Stafford and Brady to get comfortable in the pocket late in the game.

I understand we are dropping more into coverage, and I understand you have to be careful not to give up the big play, but a QB the quality of Brady is going to find receivers if he has all the time he needs, and Stafford is proving to be no slouch either. Seems ike we could have at least mixed things up and attacked some so that the QB couldn't get so comfortable in the pocket, and to give us a chance to make a big play rather than just playing to prevent the big play.

I'm not sure if it's the play call itself but I too am concerned that this D continues to disappear in the 4th. Ware made a terrible move and just kept running around wide outside on Brady's TD throw, I'm not sure why he did not try to spin back inside. He was doubled and maybe he just was not able to beat them.

I'm not about to second guess Ryan on the call, I think the execution of the secondary was very good. We simply failed to get any pressure at all on Brady. If Ware would have spun back instead of going wide, it would of at least put him in front of where Brady threw instead of leaving it wide open. But so much goes into that and Ware knows what he's doing, I'm just going by what I saw after the fact.

I don't think we were less aggressive, they went no huddle and our secondary was right there, they were not beat or lost, Brady threaded the needle. We just were not able to get pressure in part to the no huddle throwing us out of rhythm.

It did not help that the refs stopped us from snapping until the Pats were substituted and ready and did not slow Brady from snapping in the middle of our subs.

 

[noshame]

I was thnking the same, but jeez, the guys passes were landing about 2-3 inches beyond our defenders hands, not much we can. With Scandrick back we'll be deadly starting this week.

 

[shockandroll]

Ask a defense any defense to stop megatron on the goal line and Brady in a 2 minute drill, most will fail. Our D is as good as i've seen them in years if the offense could actually do their part we'd be pretty damn good

The defense gave up a long 4th quarter TD against the Jets after the offense scored. They did the same thing against the Lions. If you look at the performance of just the defense without letting the frustration of our offense jade your opinion, you'd see that for several years, they've been giving up 4th quarter scores that contribute to losses.

No argument on the offense but the defense tends to blow end of game stands.

 

[Ren]

The defense gave up a long 4th quarter TD against the Jets after the offense scored. They did the same thing against the Lions. If you look at the performance of just the defense without letting the frustration of our offense jade your opinion, you'd see that for several years, they've been giving up 4th quarter scores that contribute to losses.

No argument on the offense but the defense tends to blow end of game stands.

The Burress TD on McCann who's not even on the team anymore and was only playing cause every single one of our other CBs where out hurt?

McCann was what our 5th CB? talk about unrealistic expectations if you think he's gonna stop Burress

As for the Lions game we win that comfortably if not for offensive mistakes mainly Romo

The D has done more the we could have ever asked of them so far this season not a single one of our losses are on the D, they can only bail this offense out so many times.

 

[Stautner]

I'm with you on this. I haven't looked at it closely, but I'm guessing we had to change some things up on the last 2:00 of the game Sunday.

We were dropping more into coverage and not blitzing.

I still don't fault the defense on Sunday. They held the best O and best QB in football to 20 points.

But I will say that many of us noticed that this is maybe the one thing that Browns fans complained about with Rob.

Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the defense for the loss. The defense carried more of the load than the offense did in opinion. I'm just saying that at that particular point in the last few games the defense didn't look like the same defense that had carried us to that point. A lot of our success in both games had come from making sure the QB didn't get too comfortable, but in those situations we allowed the QB to be comfortable.

Ask a defense any defense to stop megatron on the goal line and Brady in a 2 minute drill, most will fail. Our D is as good as i've seen them in years if the offense could actually do their part we'd be pretty damn good

It's not stopping megatron at the goalline I am talking about, it's letting them get to the goalline to begin with. Obviously there is no guaranted that the Lions or Pats wouldn't have scored even if we had been more agressive on defense late in the games, but I don't understand letting QB's of that quality dictate the action without at least something mixed in to change the momentum.

 

[Clove]

Well in a few of those games, our offense was our worst defense by giving the Lions 2 scores without the defense even taking the field.

WE shut the NE Pats down to 13 points, and even took the ball back one more time and gave it to the offense AGAIN. If you keep speeding, eventually you'll be pulled over.

I have nothing bad to say about this defense, this offense should be shameful, it's pathetic.

 

[Hoofbite]

Did pretty well against the 9ers and Skins.

Any time you leave the field up 24 points and return to the field up 10 points, I'd imagine there's a big psychological hit.

Brady is just that good as well.

 

[Doomsday101]

I can't get down on the defense that much. I will say I thought rushing only 3 in the redzone vs Brady when they got the go ahead TD was a mistake.

I think your better off going after him at least with 4 guys. I also have to say I have never been a fan of rushing only 3 with the exception of defending the Hail Mary. Outside of that I think if you give the QB the time you will lose the battle more times than not.

 

[Stautner]

Well in a few of those games, our offense was our worst defense by giving the Lions 2 scores without the defense even taking the field.

WE shut the NE Pats down to 13 points, and even took the ball back one more time and gave it to the offense AGAIN. If you keep speeding, eventually you'll be pulled over.

I have nothing bad to say about this defense, this offense should be shameful, it's pathetic.

Sure our offense was a problem, but that's not the question. And sure Brady is good, but that's the point - someone that good can't be expected to screw up unless he is pressured to do so.

As for taking the ball back and giving it to the offense one more time, our method of "taking it back" was to give up the go ahead TD, so I'm not sure that's a bragging point.

Once again, i'm not trashing the defense, and in fact love what our defense has been doing. I just wanted to see more of it late in the game instead of playing softwith the opponent having a chance to score the game winning points.

 

[Everson24]

I still don't fault the defense on Sunday. They held the best O and best QB in football to 20 points.

But I will say that many of us noticed that this is maybe the one thing that Browns fans complained about with Rob.

Rex does it too. All you have to do is go back and watch every Ravens loss to the Steelers. His defense would dominate until the last drive and then give up their first TD on the Steelers final drive. This was one thing that worried me about Rob Ryan and it has proven to be justified.

 

[casmith07]

You shouldn't have to consistently rely on the defense in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

Additionally, the only long drive given up for a TD by this defense has been the Brady drive. Two other games we've stopped our opponent for a 50 yard field goal or some other FG.

The offense has to score enough for the defense to not be relied on every single week if you want to win long term in the NFL.

 

[Stautner]

You shouldn't have to consistently rely on the defense in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

Additionally, the only long drive given up for a TD by this defense has been the Brady drive. Two other games we've stopped our opponent for a 50 yard field goal or some other FG.

The offense has to score enough for the defense to not be relied on every single week if you want to win long term in the NFL.

Nobody said you should consistently rely on the defense, and I was complaining about us having to do that in the 4th quarter Sunday. I agree with everything you have said, but that's not the topic. The topic is about what we do once our defense is in that position, not about what the team did to get them in that position. That's another debate.

 

[shockandroll]

The Burress TD on McCann who's not even on the team anymore and was only playing cause every single one of our other CBs where out hurt?

McCann was what our 5th CB? talk about unrealistic expectations if you think he's gonna stop Burress

As for the Lions game we win that comfortably if not for offensive mistakes mainly Romo

The D has done more the we could have ever asked of them so far this season not a single one of our losses are on the D, they can only bail this offense out so many times.

The Jets loss is on the special teams and defense, imo. The offense scored and our defense and special teams should not of had them in a shoot out against the Jets. The offense did not need bailing out against the Jets, they needed the st's to not give up 7 points and the defense to play better against a weak Jets offense.

I said you have to take your offensive hate goggles off to realize the D has issues in the 4th quarter. You're obviously not willing to do that. I agree the turnovers were a major factor in the Lions game, you don't need to try and convince me of what I already know.

Romo led the team on a long drive that ended in a FG against the Lions in the 3rd. The D responded by allowing a long TD drive immediately after. They were rested, the offense drove the field before nailing a FG. It was not a result of a turnover. It was the defense all on their own failing to hold the Lions which also might have sealed the game.

This is the type of play I'm talking about. Romo recovered, scored points and the D gave up a TD, putting the offense back in a position where they had to try to score again. The defense single handedly turned a +3 possession into a -4 possession in the 4th.

I don't blame them for the loss and absolutely agree the turnovers were the primary cause. But the D was far from perfect. They had chances to close the deal and instead gave up points.

 

[shockandroll]

Nobody said you should consistently rely on the defense, and I was complaining about us having to do that in the 4th quarter Sunday. I agree with everything you have said, but that's not the topic. The topic is about what we do once our defense is in that position, not about what the team did to get them in that position. That's another debate.

Very well stated!

 

[casmith07]

Nobody said you should consistently rely on the defense, and I was complaining about us having to do that in the 4th quarter Sunday. I agree with everything you have said, but that's not the topic. The topic is about what we do once our defense is in that position, not about what the team did to get them in that position. That's another debate.

I think they've played about as well as you could hope. They forced some errant throws by Brady the other day, and they've come up with sacks in the clutch as well.

Now if we are facing the Miami Dolphins and we give up a TD at the end of the half, or something, I'll be upset. But it was New England. We have to consider all of the facts.

13 points. That's all the Pats scored until 23 seconds left in the game. It's not the defense's fault the offense only mustered 16 points. Would have been at least 23 points if Choice doesn't put the ball on the ground.

 

[Doomsday101]

Nobody said you should consistently rely on the defense, and I was complaining about us having to do that in the 4th quarter Sunday. I agree with everything you have said, but that's not the topic. The topic is about what we do once our defense is in that position, not about what the team did to get them in that position. That's another debate.

I don't know the Dallas game vs the Jets we turn it over in the 4th qrt putting them in long range FG to take the lead and the defense does not allow them any yards however they get the FG.

Washington game Defense gets a turnover on the skins drive when all they needed was a FG.

SF game when the 9ers were in a position to milk the clock the rest of the way the defense makes a big stop and we get the ball back and score to tie the game. Then in OT SF wins the coin toss but we stop them cold and end up winning.

Det Calvin Johnson got us and vs NE and Brady we could not get the TD and gave Brady 2 chances to come back on us and he did. Defense perfect no but there are no big signs showing they can't make critical stops late in games