Defense needs new persona

Galian Beast

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,735
Reaction score
7,457
The defense needs a new persona and I'm not sure what that entails.

I do not believe that this offense as it is can carry this team to a super bowl. It certainly isn't good enough to overcome what I see as coaching deficiencies.

All I know is that we can not continue to keep going as we have the last few years. I hope that we do not continue to put out the same retread players on defense. I'm not certain that Marinelli is the guy for the job. I absolutely commend him for what he is able to produce from very limited resources, but the question is can he get significantly more out of higher end players? At this point, I'd at least like to see him get the opportunity.

Marinelli came here in 2013 (DC from 2014), that is 4 years.

How many first round draft picks has he had in those 4 (3 years)? One. Byron Jones, who was a late first round draft pick. I think the jury is out on him, but given what he's been able to do with Wilcox and Heath, you have to think Jones will turn into a superstar.

How many second round draft picks has he had that have actually seen the field? 1, with Demarcus Lawrence who has been battling back injuries and was suspended for four games. He's turned him into a pretty decent player, though.

How many third round draft picks has he had that have actually seen the field? Two. Maliek Collins and JJ Wilcox. Two players that Marinelli has gotten pretty good production out of. Remember, Wilcox was a complete project player, who I believe Marinelli was able to salvage.

That is a total of 4 "First-day" players in four years on a defense that was horrendous when he initially arrived. There are no free agents studs on this defense that have been brought in to help bridge the gap in draft resources.

The Cowboys need to spend the next two to three drafts focusing primarily on defense whenever possible. They need to let go of players like Carr. At this point, I'd rather see Brown starting and resources spent appropriately towards the defensive line. I wouldn't keep Claiborne either unless it was an extremely team friendly one year deal. It's time to move on from these cornerbacks if we want to see plays made in the secondary.

Morris Claiborne has 4 career interceptions. Brandon Carr has 1 interception in the last four years.

Stunned that we resigned Scandrick to the money we signed him to. I would look to move on from him as soon as feasible.

I think our linebackers will be fine if Jaylon Smith can return to form alongside Sean Lee.

It's now time to focus almost entirely on the defensive line as that is the only way we're going to get the results we need. Going into this draft, unfortunately, isn't going to be great positioning for us. I think whatever we can get for Romo needs to be parlayed into getting help earlier in the draft along the line. The going rate in my mind starts at least a first round draft pick.

Of our 2017 free agents, I would resign Church or Wilcox (not both), maybe Gachkar, Terrell McClain, Justin Durant, and that's it.

I might go wide receiver or defensive end in the first round and while that might sound like a contradiction of what I said earlier, I think you probably get more value at WR deeper in the first round than defensive end. Really depends on who is there. I wouldn't resign Terrance Williams. I would increase Cole Beasley's role in the offense instead. The Patriots make it work without expensive wide receivers, we need to be able to do the same. Especially, with the resources we're putting in at offensive line.
 

LocimusPrime

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,091
Reaction score
92,903
I would love to see the Cowboys active in free agency as well as the draft in obtaining more defensive help especially the defensive line.

But everyone agrees that this is necessary, people just disagree on how to approach fixing the Dline.
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
84,017
Reaction score
76,722
They have personnel two deep at every position. The issue is front line talent with guys like Jack Crawford, Anthony Hitchens, and Benson Mayowa starting when they should be depth.
Yeah but you aren't going to be stacked st every spot. The defense needs a game changer that makes everyone around them better. Von Miller allows for the Broncos to have marginal talent around him. Same goes for the Raiders with Mack.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
We've been talking about this for, what, four years now? Since the 2013 season when we had one of the bottom-5 worst defenses in league history in terms of yards surrendered? What have we added since then who can earn snaps? Hitchens, Lawrence, Byron Jones, and Collins, right? Am I missing anybody? Anthony Brown. That's a pretty bare cupboard.

We've been bad. Truly bad. And we've barely done anything to seriously address it with actual resources.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
They have personnel two deep at every position. The issue is front line talent with guys like Jack Crawford, Anthony Hitchens, and Benson Mayowa starting when they should be depth.

That the thing. The unit overall has some guys who belong in a rotation. We lack impact DLs. And now if we're not careful, we're going to lack DBs. For a team that needs 4-5 legitimate upgrades, we have to be careful we don't lose players we can use before the offseason really gets going.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,856
Yeah but you aren't going to be stacked st every spot. The defense needs a game changer that makes everyone around them better. Von Miller allows for the Broncos to have marginal talent around him. Same goes for the Raiders with Mack.

Sure. But you want to be stacked at key positions like wherever you get your pass rush from and the front line coverage.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,856
We've been talking about this for, what, four years now? Since the 2013 season when we had one of the bottom-5 worst defenses in league history in terms of yards surrendered? What have we added since then who can earn snaps? Hitchens, Lawrence, Byron Jones, and Collins, right? Am I missing anybody? Anthony Brown. That's a pretty bare cupboard.

We've been bad. Truly bad. And we've barely done anything to seriously address it with actual resources.

Yeah Marinelli is getting by with smoke and mirrors.

We weren't bad this past year but I want to be better than average or slightly above average. Players tend to get better in season 2 so our offense could take another step up if we replace TWill but there is only so much better they can get from where they are at.
 

Galian Beast

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,735
Reaction score
7,457
We've been talking about this for, what, four years now? Since the 2013 season when we had one of the bottom-5 worst defenses in league history in terms of yards surrendered? What have we added since then who can earn snaps? Hitchens, Lawrence, Byron Jones, and Collins, right? Am I missing anybody? Anthony Brown. That's a pretty bare cupboard.

We've been bad. Truly bad. And we've barely done anything to seriously address it with actual resources.

The idea has been to continue getting by with what we have on defense and asking the offense to carry their load. I think the defense has actually more than carried their end of the bargain given their resources. The offense I think has come up short, however.

Don't want to derail the thread, but I think Romo takes this team to the Super Bowl. I don't think you saw the best from any one of our receivers this year with Dak at the helm. We like to compare this offense to 2014, but in reality, it should have been much better than the 2014 offense. You have Cole Beasley who has emerged as a veteran, and even Terrance Williams has improved, as has the offensive line in general.
 

Beast_from_East

Well-Known Member
Messages
30,140
Reaction score
27,231
What this defense needs is a pass rush...............our entire front 7 didn't register a single sack in the playoff game. Considering they were playing at home with almost 3 weeks of rest, that is a disgrace.

Until that changes, we are never going to make a deep playoff run.
 

Galian Beast

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,735
Reaction score
7,457
That the thing. The unit overall has some guys who belong in a rotation. We lack impact DLs. And now if we're not careful, we're going to lack DBs. For a team that needs 4-5 legitimate upgrades, we have to be careful we don't lose players we can use before the offseason really gets going.

I think you need to be careful with that thinking. I think you have a production in that back four/five that is not conducive to winning you games. I think you need to seriously shift those resources towards the ball and then and only then can you build out the secondary.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Yeah Marinelli is getting by with smoke and mirrors.

We weren't bad this past year but I want to be better than average or slightly above average. Players tend to get better in season 2 so our offense could take another step up if we replace TWill but there is only so much better they can get from where they are at.

We were actually far better than I thought we had any right to be. I hate that we don't have more impact defensive players not he roster.

This is a championship caliber offense, for sure. I'd still like to see them with a legit speed WR in the rotation, but that guy doesn't need to be a top pick. Other than that, though, there's work to do. We need a bluebird at one of the rush positions to step up and give us something where we don't have anything. Whether that's Irving, or Tapper, or the NFL backing off the pot suspensions this offseason, or a rookie or veteran Hail Mary coming from somewhere. We need 2-3 DL upgrades, to have hit on Jaylon at the MIKE, and to be able to field a complement of DBs who can do with Marinelli wants next year. That's a fairly tall order.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,856
The idea has been to continue getting by with what we have on defense and asking the offense to carry their load. I think the defense has actually more than carried their end of the bargain given their resources. The offense I think has come up short, however.

Don't want to derail the thread, but I think Romo takes this team to the Super Bowl. I don't think you saw the best from any one of our receivers this year with Dak at the helm. We like to compare this offense to 2014, but in reality, it should have been much better than the 2014 offense. You have Cole Beasley who has emerged as a veteran, and even Terrance Williams has improved, as has the offensive line in general.

I think the issue has been Jones penchant for taking risks to try and hit a homerun for the defense. Carter, Lee, Claiborne, Hardy, Gregory, and Smith all fit that bill in one form or another.

If healthy Romo would likely score a decent amount more points just by virtue of his ability to throw jump balls and make throws down the field. That is a huge if though as the spectre of injury is undeniable.
 

JBS

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,385
Reaction score
23,824
Defense needs speed

Playmakers

Hitting on Jaylon Smith is critical...add Budda Baker and we are in business
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I think you need to be careful with that thinking. I think you have a production in that back four/five that is not conducive to winning you games. I think you need to seriously shift those resources towards the ball and then and only then can you build out the secondary.

I'd be all for returning the current secondary (maybe we replace either of the S with a high pick, but, whatever). Where I'd like to see us improve is at the MIKE and both end positions. Plus just getting competitive players across the board where we can add them to push any starter not named 'Lee."
 

skinsscalper

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,146
Reaction score
5,693
Yeah but you aren't going to be stacked st every spot. The defense needs a game changer that makes everyone around them better. Von Miller allows for the Broncos to have marginal talent around him. Same goes for the Raiders with Mack.
Von Miller has marginal talent around him? Are you freaking kidding me, bro? He has the best secondary in the league behind him and it's not even close.

The Raiders allowed over 24 points a game. The Cowboys? 19.25 (The Broncos allowed 18.56, btw). So Mack allowed for marginal players on his team to give 5 more points a game than the Cowboys and that's the model we should follow? Great plan!

It's no secret that the Cowboys need to acquire talent to get more push up front but Holy ****, people, can we deal in reality for oh, I don't know, a meager 30 seconds before spouting ******** for the sake of ********?
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,708
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Stunned that we resigned Scandrick to the money we signed him to. I would look to move on from him as soon as feasible.
Scandrick signed a 5-year, 190M contract in 2015. That is 3.8M per year average which is really low for a starting CB (Nickel CB is basically a starter).

Avg./Year Player
$15,000,000 Josh Norman
$14,024,212 Darrelle Revis
$14,010,000 Patrick Peterson
$14,000,000 Richard Sherman
$13,952,000 Trumaine Johnson
$13,500,000 Joe Haden
$12,500,000 Janoris Jenkins
$12,000,000 Darius Slay
$10,500,000 Byron Maxwell
$10,275,500 Jimmy Smith
$10,020,000 Brandon Carr
$9,750,000 Sam Shields
$9,500,000 Sean Smith
$9,500,000 Robert Alford
$9,500,000 Aqib Talib
$9,100,000 Brandon Flowers
$9,000,000 Vontae Davis
$8,608,000 Jason McCourty
$8,500,000 Chris Harris, Jr.
$8,500,000 Kareem Jackson
$8,250,000 David Amerson
$7,333,333 Johnathan Joseph
$7,333,333 Adam Jones
$7,000,000 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
$7,000,000 Brent Grimes
$7,000,000 Tramon Williams
$6,375,000 Alterraun Verner
$6,250,000 Buster Skrine
$6,125,000 Davon House
$5,837,750 Jalen Ramsey
$5,750,000 Jeremy Lane
$5,500,000 Prince Amukamara
$5,100,000 Casey Hayward
$5,000,000 Justin Bethel
$4,800,000 Jamar Taylor
$4,666,667 Patrick Robinson
$4,333,333 Shareece Wright
$4,000,000 Tracy Porter
$3,800,000 Orlando Scandrick
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
What this defense needs is a pass rush...............our entire front 7 didn't register a single sack in the playoff game. Considering they were playing at home with almost 3 weeks of rest, that is a disgrace.

Until that changes, we are never going to make a deep playoff run.

In fairness to their playoff game play (though I don't disagree with you generally), they would have gotten more pressure if the old hook-his-neck-but-only-if-your-helmet-has-yellow-on-it play weren't suddenly and apparently made legal.
 
Top