Defensive Formation Primer

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Back when I did my Offensive formation with Felix and Barber in a joint backfield I was asked by Rampage to do one of these threads for the Defensive 3-3-5 formation.

I worked on it then forgot about it.

If anyone who has played Defense has a better insight into this formation by all means please chime in.

Notice right away that in any 5 DBs situation I am going to move Newman into the slot and Scandrick out to LCB. This is why I think Jenkins will start at RCB over Scandrick. Who starts is of little consequence to me, both will play a vital role.

Rampage also asked who will take Ellis place in the Cowboy package of this formation. I think it will be Spencer. I considered Brooking because of hsi time in the NFL and coverage skills. I considered Carpenter because he is taking Burnett's role as coverage LB supposedly. I even considered the rookies. Ultimately the comments of Eagles TE Brent Celek lead me to believe it will be Spencer.

This will look a little odd because there is a true FS playing Center field and the SS will play almost a LB position in appearance.


.............................................26

.....................................56............43

21..........................94...99...90...97...93..............41..............32

X............................LT...LG...C...RG...RT...TE........Y................Z
..........................................QB

..........................................RB

Bradie James' first read is the RB.

Ken Hamlin's first read is motion by any of the WRs, TE, or RB.

Sensabaugh's first read is the TE, 2nd read is the RB.



I would expect the QB to be in a 3 or 5 step drop, not a 7 step drop even though potentially one WR can go deep. I don't think many teams will utilize a 7 step drop against us this year given Ware's emergence and the premier pass rusher in the NFL. This means Ware will line up wider than the LT on most situation to give him a sharper angle to come at the QB. Spencer will probably gap shoot the TE if he stays put and hope that hatcher or Spears (I think Hatcher in passing situations) can draw the RT into a double team.

A big time Key to this Defensive package is Igor Olshansky. If the Offense is going to try and inside run it is likely with the TE on a pull and lead into the 3 hole where Olshansky needs to hold his ground and close the hole or take out the TE so Bradie James is free to make the tackle.

The key to success from a package such as this is twofold. Pressure on the QB in passing situations and tight man coverage by the CBs. If the Offense chooses to run the ball Bradie and Sensabaugh have to pick that read up quickly.

One pitfall to watch for, a draw play to suck Sensabaugh in then drop the TE behind him in the flat. Hamlin has to read this right awya and cannot double team any of the WR options if the SS reads run and commits.

Enjoy.
 

CowboyMike

Stay Thirsty, My Friends
Messages
5,448
Reaction score
669
Good stuff Hos.

But I thought Wade said the slot role is Scandrick's no matter what? He said he earned that job last year and even if he does win the RCB job, they'd still move him to the slot in those situations.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
CowboyMike;2853889 said:
Good stuff Hos.

But I thought Wade said the slot role is Scandrick's no matter what? He said he earned that job last year and even if he does win the RCB job, they'd still move him to the slot in those situations.
If he said it I didn't hear it. I think Newman is more versatile and is a surer tackler. That is why I move him to the slot and Scandrick out wide.
 

Biggems

White and Nerdy
Messages
14,327
Reaction score
2,254
Hostile;2853897 said:
If he said it I didn't hear it. I think Newman is more versatile and is a surer tackler. That is why I move him to the slot and Scandrick out wide.

I think Jenkins should be in the slot, as he is the surest tackler in our secondary:lmao:
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
Pft.

This is a terrible alignment............because it never works for me on Madden.

:laugh2:
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
ScipioCowboy;2853927 said:
Pft.

This is a terrible alignment............because it never works for me on Madden.

:laugh2:
I wonder if that guy ever figured out that maybe he's just not any good at Madden?
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
with a true 3-3-5, oftentimes the 3x LBs will actually "stack" behind the linemen in order to gain an extra step or two before engaging any blockers against the run...at least in my experiences from playing. But, I was a CB/FS, so take what I say with a grain of salt :p:
 

Rampage

Benched
Messages
24,117
Reaction score
2
Hostile;2853938 said:
I wonder if that guy ever figured out that maybe he's just not any good at Madden?
now we're talking. something to help these 3 days go by a little quicker. as for Madden this is my favorite formation in passing situations. Ware is making the qb decide if he's throwing it early or getting sacked. now on to the real life formation. do you think the coaches will put Newman in the slot or that's what you would do? oh and call a play Hos.
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
Hostile;2853897 said:
If he said it I didn't hear it. I think Newman is more versatile and is a surer tackler. That is why I move him to the slot and Scandrick out wide.

Coming from a past DB, I know at least in our defense we typically shifted our best CB into the slot because in 3+ WR formations, the offense typically has their slot man run the most difficult routes to cover (over the middle through all that traffic, especially if you've got LBs dropping back into zones, short out and in routes, hooks, curls, hitches, lots of option routes), oftentimes putting that slot man in motion too.

You usually place your best-handed receiver in the slot, especially on 3rd downs. By lining up your best guy against him, you increase your chances of stopping the 1st down.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
Rampage;2853941 said:
now we're talking. something to help these 3 days go by a little quicker. as for Madden this is my favorite formation in passing situations. Ware is making the qb decide if he's throwing it early or getting sacked. now on to the real life formation. do you think the coaches will put Newman in the slot or that's what you would do? oh and call a play Hos.
Newman in the slot is what I would do. He's wily and fast. Plus if he reads a throw to the Z receiver in the flat he could jump the route and take it for 6 if he and Scandrick are on a switch. Not that I don't think Scandrick could take one for 6, just like the odds with Newman.

If I am calling a play for the Defense in this alignment I am definitely going to go with jamming the WRs at the LOS and coming on a stacked Zone blitz with Ware, Rat, Spencer, and Bradie as the primary pressure. I bring Hamlin and Sensabaugh into the middle coverage with deep assignments possible if the jams do not work. I might stunt shift Ware and Olshansky or Hatcher and Spencer but not both of them on the same play.

I'm crazy. I would blitz almost every single play all game long. I love the blitz. I love it a little too much.
 

Rampage

Benched
Messages
24,117
Reaction score
2
alright all we need is DCfanatic or Dallaseast to make one of them cool videos and get this party started.
 

Bob Sacamano

Benched
Messages
57,084
Reaction score
3
it's always a joy to read one of these pieces

I swear, we have one of the most stacked Ds in the league

we also have alot of weapons on O too

a chance to be something special in all 3 phases of the game is among us my brothas! since it's the eve before Sunday, I want an amen

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!!
:)
 

Rampage

Benched
Messages
24,117
Reaction score
2
Bob Sacamano;2853955 said:
it's always a joy to read one of these pieces

I swear, we have one of the most stacked Ds in the league

we also have alot of weapons on O too

a chance to be something special in all 3 phases of the game is among us my brothas! since it's the eve before Sunday, I want an amen

CAN I GET AN AMEN?!!
:)
AMEN! preach on my brotha!
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
Hostile;2853946 said:
Newman in the slot is what I would do. He's wily and fast. Plus if he reads a throw to the Z receiver in the flat he could jump the route and take it for 6 if he and Scandrick are on a switch. Not that I don't think Scandrick could take one for 6, just like the odds with Newman.

If I am calling a play for the Defense in this alignment I am definitely going to go with jamming the WRs at the LOS and coming on a stacked Zone blitz with Ware, Rat, Spencer, and Bradie as the primary pressure. I bring Hamlin and Sensabaugh into the middle coverage with deep assignments possible if the jams do not work. I might stunt shift Ware and Olshansky or Hatcher and Spencer but not both of them on the same play.

I'm crazy. I would blitz almost every single play all game long. I love the blitz. I love it a little too much.

Jim Johnson posts here? :cool:
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
casmith07;2853960 said:
Jim Johnson posts here? :cool:
One of the reasons why I consider him the best DC in the NFL is how amazing he is at having teams blitz and not get burned constantly.
 

casmith07

Attorney-at-Zone
Messages
31,538
Reaction score
9,312
Hostile;2853963 said:
One of the reasons why I consider him the best DC in the NFL is how amazing he is at having teams blitz and not get burned constantly.

The way that you described it is the way to do it - zone blitz schemes and really mixing and matching so that even if you never really change from the 4-man rush, the different looks from the front 7 make it appear as if the pressure is more than there is.
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
casmith07;2853960 said:
Jim Johnson posts here? :cool:

Actually Johnson paled in comparison to how often the Bears blitzed every down. Even crazier, the Bears pretty much showed blitz every down. Unfortunately that's over-doing it and their defense got eaten alive by it.



YAKUZA
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,114
Reaction score
11,466
casmith07;2853969 said:
The way that you described it is the way to do it - zone blitz schemes and really mixing and matching so that even if you never really change from the 4-man rush, the different looks from the front 7 make it appear as if the pressure is more than there is.

From what Bradie was hinting at when he was on 103.3 that day, I think we're going to be doing all kinds of stuff like that. Several players said we look even more aggressive on D, and Bradie said there were some new wrinkles on the way.

I don't know what it is, but even when a new DC takes over an aggressive scheme, it seems like he often doesn't call the game as aggressively and it makes a big difference. That happened to Cottrell in SD when Wade left and it happened when Stewart called plays here. That's one reason I suspect the NYG and Eagles won't be quite as good on D without the proven guys, even though the scheme won't change.

BTW, I'm almost positive Scandrick will stay in the slot. He did last year even when TN came back.
 

dcfanatic

Benched
Messages
10,408
Reaction score
1
[youtube]tzfYezMfiCQ[/youtube]
-------------------------

Now if MBIII gives Bradie the stiff arm and Hamlin goes after his ankles and misses and then Jenkins is engulfed by Roy Willams this is a disaster.

:laugh2:

Working on another one where the QB takes a 5 step drop.
 

Rampage

Benched
Messages
24,117
Reaction score
2
dcfanatic;2853993 said:
[youtube]tzfYezMfiCQ[/youtube]
-------------------------

Now if MBIII gives Bradie the stiff arm and Hamlin goes after his ankles and misses and then Jenkins is engulfed by Roy Willams this is a disaster.

:laugh2:

Working on another one where the QB takes a 5 step drop.
you da man, DC
 
Top