Dez separation stat

[xwalker]

According to next gen stats they have sensors on the players (and possibly the ball, not sure) and multiple devices around the field to record their exact positions in real time. It's also how they know exactly how fast the players are running, how long it takes for a QB to throw the ball after the snap etc...

From the website: NFL player tracking, also known as Next Gen Stats, is the capture of real time location data, speed and acceleration for every player, every play on every inch of the field. Sensors throughout the stadium track tags placed on players' shoulder pads, charting individual movements within inches.

Cool.

I design electronics and that includes systems with many and various types of sensors.

Some things like the players speed would be straight forward to implement; however, determining the coverage spacing of an NFL WR and CB would be very difficult to do accurately. At what point do you measure it? How do you handle routes where there was no pass to that WR? Coverage backs off in some situations where the ball is obviously not coming to that WR (i.e. DBs often drop one WR and help with another before the ball arrives). Different routes would have different meanings to spacing. A WR might be open with a small amount of spacing on a 3 yard quick slant but that same spacing on a deep sideline pass would not be enough. If one WR runs mostly slants and another runs mostly deep routes then the averages have less meaning.

A dynamic diagram (video) of routes using sensor data would be interesting but boiling spacing down to a single number is unlikely to have much actual meaning.

 

[TheDude]

Just saying. How does this even happen. Truly pathetic

Real separation

Which led to a beautiful catch

Funny how that works. No magical jump ball spott required!

And if Prescott's throw wasnt short, it was a TD. Two pictures dont tell every story - different routes and coverage.

 

[Kevinicus]

Cool.

I design electronics and that includes systems with many and various types of sensors.

Some things like the players speed would be straight forward to implement; however, determining the coverage spacing of an NFL WR and CB would be very difficult to do accurately. At what point do you measure it? How do you handle routes where there was no pass to that WR? Coverage backs off in some situations where the ball is obviously not coming to that WR (i.e. DBs often drop one WR and help with another before the ball arrives). Different routes would have different meanings to spacing. A WR might be open with a small amount of spacing on a 3 yard quick slant but that same spacing on a deep sideline pass would not be enough. If one WR runs mostly slants and another runs mostly deep routes then the averages have less meaning.

A dynamic diagram (video) of routes using sensor data would be interesting but boiling spacing down to a single number is unlikely to have much actual meaning.

Kind of like the target stat has little actual meaning. Doesn't stop people from touting it for their agenda.

 

[birdwells1]

Players having good, great, and not-so-good seasons are scattered all up and down the list. Mosher's point is to show those who claim Dez has lost a step that he gets just as much separation as some selected great WR, which is 100% true, fwiw.

The problem with Dez's production is more about the quarterback than the reciever. He's just not a competent qb right now, he can't anticipate when a wr will be open and more importantly he can't throw when the defense knows that he has to throw.

 

[LatinMind]

These same "Dez Haters" were saying the same thing with Romo. Dez seperation stats a misleading, and anybody with 2 eyes can figure it out. He runs bad routes and usually cuts routes short that allows CBs to cover him without being up on him. You doubt me go back and rewatch every game this yr. You will see CBs letting him cut his routes off short and play off him and theyre always there for the tackle or pass defensed. They actually just talked about this last week in depth in pregame shows. It was literally on every pregame show. Teams know they dont have a DB who is going to out muscle him so they just play him off knowing hes going to run the route short if theres a S over the top. But mark these words the CB is always in posistion to make a play on a dez route.

 

[reddyuta]

Its not just about separation.Dez pre injury was a beast,he caught almost EVERY 50/50 and was almost perfect in the red zone when he beat everybody.now he cant jump high anymore and for some reason his hands are not that good either.

 

[JeffInDC]

Dez does get separation on short to intermediate in cutting routes. He just doesn't get much on deep sideline routes due to lack of elite speed.

This is why I don't understand why the coaching staff hasn't used him more on the slants and digs and less on the go routes. That's just crazy.

This

 

[JeffInDC]

Its not just about separation.Dez pre injury was a beast,he caught almost EVERY 50/50 and was almost perfect in the red zone when he beat everybody.now he cant jump high anymore and for some reason his hands are not that good either.

See the missed TD vs. the Chargers. Ball was in his hands, then out before the CB even had a chance to break it up. Dak put it where it needed to be.

 

[percyhoward]

The problem with Dez's production is more about the quarterback than the reciever. He's just not a competent qb right now, he can't anticipate when a wr will be open and more importantly he can't throw when the defense knows that he has to throw.

Dak's hot garbage right now, but compared to the last half of 2016, his passer rating has only dropped 5 points to everybody else, 53 points to Dez.

2016 last 8 games
Bryant 43 of 67 (64%) 646 yd (9.6 ypa) 8 td 2 int 122.8
others 127 of 181 (70%) 1313 yd (7.3 ypa) 6 td 1 int 99.5

2017
Bryant 53 of 102 (52%) 578 yd (5.7 ypa) 4 td 3 int 69.8
others 168 of 245 (69%) 1722 yd (7.0 ypa) 12 td 6 int 94.6

 

[xwalker]

Kind of like the target stat has little actual meaning. Doesn't stop people from touting it for their agenda.

The problem with Dez's production is more about the quarterback than the reciever. He's just not a competent qb right now, he can't anticipate when a wr will be open and more importantly he can't throw when the defense knows that he has to throw.

Wrong.

 

[birdwells1]

Dak's hot garbage right now, but compared to the last half of 2016, his passer rating has only dropped 5 points to everybody else, 53 points to Dez.

2016 last 8 games
Bryant 43 of 67 (64%) 646 yd (9.6 ypa) 8 td 2 int 122.8
others 127 of 181 (70%) 1313 yd (7.3 ypa) 6 td 1 int 99.5

2017
Bryant 53 of 102 (52%) 578 yd (5.7 ypa) 4 td 3 int 69.8
others 168 of 245 (69%) 1722 yd (7.0 ypa) 12 td 6 int 94.6

Question, is Dez still getting man over coverage or is he single covered?

 

[Gameover]

Dak to Dez on 1st & 20. Passing situation

This is a crime in some states. Falcons DB were running our route better than our receivers. Mosher would call that, five yards of separation!

Is this bad ball placement?

Drop! Dak fault?

Dez being left handed I believe is a problem. It wasn't a problem w Romo! People have revisionist history. Dez has never been a perfect player. Big play ability masked an extremely flawed talent. That's real

Double Witten and Beasley because the wide receivers aren't good enough to beat us. Certainly aren't good enough to sustain drives

Doubling Witten on 1st&20 for god sakes. They weren't giving up any momentum. They won't even give a brother 8 yards on first and twenty! My God what a lack of respect for our receivers

 

[LocimusPrime]

105.3 was calling BS on that stat....heard this morning.

Guess I'm curious too how they are coming up with "next gen stat"
Does he get 0 when there's no separation. A negative score when he's actually beat by the corner and trailing. If the corner falls down and he gets like 25 yds separation, is that then factored into his catches thus giving him a higher avg?

 

[Doomsday]

 

[Wood]

its means college WR are always open and NFL WR are never open. NFL is QB league for reason.

 

[Kevinicus]

You mean targets and actual opportunities are not the same thing? Mind blown!

 

[LocimusPrime]

Cool.

I design electronics and that includes systems with many and various types of sensors.

Some things like the players speed would be straight forward to implement; however, determining the coverage spacing of an NFL WR and CB would be very difficult to do accurately. At what point do you measure it? How do you handle routes where there was no pass to that WR? Coverage backs off in some situations where the ball is obviously not coming to that WR (i.e. DBs often drop one WR and help with another before the ball arrives). Different routes would have different meanings to spacing. A WR might be open with a small amount of spacing on a 3 yard quick slant but that same spacing on a deep sideline pass would not be enough. If one WR runs mostly slants and another runs mostly deep routes then the averages have less meaning.

A dynamic diagram (video) of routes using sensor data would be interesting but boiling spacing down to a single number is unlikely to have much actual meaning.

Bro...can you make me a clapper that only responds to my claps

 

[Alexander]

Dez haterz be like “derrrrrrr, what do I do with this?”

And others are like, how do you come up with these "stats".

They really have something they call statistical that has no basis other than what the observer thinks should be the case?

Wait, sorry.

PFF has been doing this con for years and has now developed a whole new industry for it.

Carry on.

 

[texbumthelife]

Its not just about separation.Dez pre injury was a beast,he caught almost EVERY 50/50 and was almost perfect in the red zone when he beat everybody.now he cant jump high anymore and for some reason his hands are not that good either.

I’m not a Dez fan by any means, but the dude jumped like 8 feet in the air to catch that high ball over the middle a few weeks ago. They showed the replay and he’s literally a foot higher in the air than anyone.

 

[percyhoward]