Did Smith screw up or was this always his plan?

[burmafrd]

Personally I always thought smith wanted this. He wants to make his rep as a big time Union guy for sweeter jobs than NFLPA head.

With the owners showing movement and then he throws this out at the last moment, that tells me he was just looking for an excuse.

 

[ajk23az]

I'm not siding with anyone but it seems that the Owners were sitting on the hands for the longest time not negotiating anything before this final day, and then making it seem like they were definitely doing everything possible to get a deal done. I think they were hoping the NFLPA would give into their demands.

Both parties are to blame.

 

[burmafrd]

The owners made concessions yesterday and this morning; but the players did not.

So frankly I put this on Smith.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

The owners let it get to this point by negotiating in bad faith on the TV contract, stalling and basically telling the players "You will work more for less"

The Doty ruling 3 weeks ago flipped all leverage over to the players side

The current CBA was working fine and the NFL has seen its revenue skyrocket. Along with that, more taxpayers have subsidized stadiums then ever before.

The owners are incredibly arrogant. And dumb. They are about to lose it all in court and we are going to have anarchy for the near future

 

[AbeBeta]

it is cute to see how, regardless of facts, some folks always say the union is in the wrong.

 

[arglebargle]

The owners made concessions yesterday and this morning; but the players did not.

So frankly I put this on Smith.

You've been putting this on Smith since the get go. So you might not be the most unbiased source about it.

The owners could have tried to negotiate a little more seriously a little earlier. Waiting for the last day of the extended deadline to give Goodell real negotiating power, as well as making a move on some of the issues looks to me like they were stalling.

Given the history of the owners' planning for this, the PA may have felt the courts were their only real recourse. Since much of what the NFL does would be illegal without sweetheart legal exemptions, the NFL should have perhaps considered their steps a little more carefully.

 

[CoCo]

The owners let it get to this point by negotiating in bad faith on the TV contract, stalling and basically telling the players "You will work more for less"

The Doty ruling 3 weeks ago flipped all leverage over to the players side

The current CBA was working fine and the NFL has seen its revenue skyrocket. Along with that, more taxpayers have subsidized stadiums then ever before.

The owners are incredibly arrogant. And dumb. They are about to lose it all in court and we are going to have anarchy for the near future

Well apparently the CBA was not working fine for all owners. That's why we're here. Are they truly making adequate return now for their investment? Who knows?

I certainly don't know the owners books. Players don't either. That's one of the big rubs here, no one knows the financial details - who's making money or not.

Now I'm the first to agree that this product ought to be a money maker for both players & owners. That doesn't mean this CBA works for all.

So you can talk about skyrocketing revenues, and subsidized stadiums all you want. It's only part of the equation.

 

[burmafrd]

Well you made your view clear that you are all on the players side. I am not all that enamored with the owners side but I alwasy was suspicious of Smith.

And yes the NFL got exemptions- why should you hold entertainment industries to the same standards as banks, etc?

 

[CoCo]

I will say this about financial transparency. Its pretty easy for the average fan to look at the "books" of the players and conclude they are making plenty of dough. They aren't losing money. They have to cover living expenses from their salaries - period. And since all of mankind is in the same boat there its pretty easy to conclude the players are in no danger of losing money.

The owners picture is far more muddled. I suspect that with their guargantuan TV contract that they have plenty of coin as well to make it work. But then only the owners really know their operating expenses.

 

[Dcowboy84]

i don't particularly care who's in the right on this.


bottom line is that the main sticking point is what to do with this extra $1 billion or $800 million or whatever the heck it is, basically around 10% of the total revenues, which is going to increase in the next few years to around $12 billion from what some reports have said


the fact that they're all so stuck up on 800 million to $1 billion dollars when the people who allow them to get all that money in the first place are the fans. and probably 90% of fans are pinching pennies together just to afford the cable stations to watch the games.

now i understand the argument of using percentages and they all need their fair share and what not....but when you could drop most of these guys salaries by 70% and they'll still make more money in a year than most fans will make in their lives....none of them will get a lot of sympathy from me in these proceedings.....

 

[tvooz]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5379673

there is at least one franchise which can claim poor profitability

 

[CoCo]

i don't particularly care who's in the right on this.


bottom line is that the main sticking point is what to do with this extra $1 billion or $800 million or whatever the heck it is, basically around 10% of the total revenues, which is going to increase in the next few years to around $12 billion from what some reports have said


the fact that they're all so stuck up on 800 million to $1 billion dollars when the people who allow them to get all that money in the first place are the fans. and probably 90% of fans are pinching pennies together just to afford the cable stations to watch the games.

now i understand the argument of using percentages and they all need their fair share and what not....but when you could drop most of these guys salaries by 70% and they'll still make more money in a year than most fans will make in their lives....none of them will get a lot of sympathy from me in these proceedings.....

Exaggerate much? :laugh2:


Median salary in 2009 was $770k. 30% would be about 231k. Over a 35 year career for a working fan they'd have to average about 6.6k per year to match that.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Personally I always thought smith wanted this. He wants to make his rep as a big time Union guy for sweeter jobs than NFLPA head.

With the owners showing movement and then he throws this out at the last moment, that tells me he was just looking for an excuse.

Yes. Of course it was. I said it a month ago. He doesn't have the best interest of the players at heart.

 

[arglebargle]

Well you made your view clear that you are all on the players side. I am not all that enamored with the owners side but I alwasy was suspicious of Smith.

And yes the NFL got exemptions- why should you hold entertainment industries to the same standards as banks, etc?

Do you mean, 'Why should you hold entertainment businesses to the same standards as other businesses?" That's what it sounds like.

Multiple parts of the NFL's scheme would be patently illegal in most other businesses.

And you know, they could have been negotiating without pulling the plug, or doing it seriously before the last few weeks. You should be very careful of your golden goose.....

Though I grant that one cuts both ways.

 

[RS12]

The owners let it get to this point by negotiating in bad faith on the TV contract, stalling and basically telling the players "You will work more for less"

The Doty ruling 3 weeks ago flipped all leverage over to the players side

The current CBA was working fine and the NFL has seen its revenue skyrocket. Along with that, more taxpayers have subsidized stadiums then ever before.

The owners are incredibly arrogant. And dumb. They are about to lose it all in court and we are going to have anarchy for the near future

 

[urface59]

it is cute to see how, regardless of facts, some folks always say the union is in the wrong.

It's cute to see people who think so highly of their own opinion, that it is no longer an opinion in their eyes, but an absolute fact that makes anyone who dissagrees intellectually inferior.

 

[burmafrd]

That is better than some that think a union is never wrong.
Actually I am not aiming at the Union but at Smith. I think he convinced the player reps that this was the way to go- and he is going to be wrong.

 

[arglebargle]

That is better than some that think a union is never wrong.
Actually I am not aiming at the Union but at Smith. I think he convinced the player reps that this was the way to go- and he is going to be wrong.

I don't like the decertification personally. It throws further negotiation out the window.

But this has been something that everyone knew could happen, it's not like anyone snuck up with it, as a tactic. The owners opened the floodgates, and then they didn't push to negotiate seriously (if actual meeting time is any measure), until it was right up against the deadline. I can only assume they were willing to take it to court too.

 

[burmafrd]

So they waited - what did Smith do? He pulls out that 10 year thing after they had already offered 5 years- dates back to the last CBA. Then at the LAST minute he wants 10 years. What do you call that?

 

[speedkilz88]

So they waited - what did Smith do? He pulls out that 10 year thing after they had already offered 5 years- dates back to the last CBA. Then at the LAST minute he wants 10 years. What do you call that?

Not wanting to make a deal for 500 Alex?