DL snaps, rotation, and observations

honyock

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First the snap counts per player (out of 48 total defensive snaps):

DE:
Mincey.......43 (all at RE, in on all second half snaps)
Spencer.....27 (all but one at LE, 21 of his snaps in the 2nd half)
Selvie.........21 ((all but one at LE)
L Edwards...4 (all at RE, all in the1st half)

DT:
Crawford...34
Hayden.....25
Melton.......21 (14 of these were on 3rd or 4th down)
T McClain..10

It looked they had a definite plan to keep Wilson contained and with a couple of exceptions, the line was very disciplined in executing this, especially the DE's. On pass plays, th DE's were staying in their lanes with outside rushes, without getting pushed upfield past Wilson. When they'd get even with Wilson, they'd stop and hand fight with their eyes on the QB. Meanwhile Crawford and Melton were pretty consistently getting good penetration or push, and this kept Wilson uncomfortable the entire game.

A few times Mincey took a hard inside rush, and Wilson would drift outside and cause some problems but generally Mincey only did this when he knew there was a blitzing lb or db outside of him to keep contain. They did a really good job of giving Wilson no wide running lanes, forcing him to shift and scramble and try to find receivers.

Mincey is looking more and more like a very good FA pickup. This was the best I've seen him play this year. He was very good in run defense, and created more pressure and disruption from the edge than I remember in any other game. He doesn't have a big repertoire of moves but he looked quicker with more burst this game. He did get caught in no mans land on Wilsons td run in the 2nd half. He bit on the inside handoff fake on the zone read and Wilson zipped outside him for the td. it looked a lot like DWare and RG3 from 2012.

They haven't really found anyone to spell him at RE yet. Lavar Edwards was in for only 4 plays in the first half then wasn't seen again. They've tried Edwards, Wilber and Jack Crawford and no one has been very effective yet. The guy has played a lot of snaps, probably the most of any lineman so far. It'll be good to have Lawrence start to rotate in with him soon.

Crawford was active and disruptive. This may have been his best game of the year. They don't want him off the field much. He's the base 3-tech and in with Melton on nickel downs. It's impressive for an undersized 3-tech to watch his bullrush, the combination of strength and burst he's got. He should ony get better as he develops more moves. He was also good at holding his ground and slipping out of blocks in the run game.

It still looks like they're limiting Meltons snaps, maybe because they want Crawford on the field in the base defense.At this point Melton is basically a designated inside rusher on 3rd downs and obvious passing situations. But he was a headache for whoever was blocking him all day. That third down combination of he and Crawford was effective at collapsing the pocket.

Watching the game live, I thought Hayden was having a good day. Watching the replay, he was more of a mixed bag. He's still getting driven back or planted or wiped out in the run game. He had some nice snaps but in general he looked like the weak link on the line for most of the day. The linebackers were covering for him most of the day. On Lynch's long run in the 2nd half, Hayden got wiped out badly and Lynch ran right through his hole. He got driven to the ground a couple of other times. There are some things to like about him...he's got a motor, never gives up on plays, and I'm guessing he's assignment sound. But the more limited his snaps can be, the better.

Terrell McClain was only in for 10 plays. I'm curious whats going on with him...if he's not healthy yet or just hasn't shown enough to take snaps away from Hayden. If he's going to play this little, I'd rather see them activate Bishop and give him those snaps. The coaches must Iove Hayden to keep giving him the bulk of the 1-tech snaps.

Selves is still officially the starter at LDE, but it looked like they were more and more comfortable with Spencer on the field for the bulk of the snaps in the second half. He looked like the Spencer of old in the run game..just a very active and aware and strong and sound veteran presence.. and he got some pressure against Wilson all game. We might see this all year, Selvie as the starter and Spencer as the closer.

I wasn't specifically watching the linebackers, but it looked like Durant had a really, really good game. I know that McClain has (rightfully) been getting most of the love. But Durant deserves his share as well.

At the start of the year, a whole lot had to go right for the line to be decent. So far, a lot of it has gone right. Crawford had to be what his teammates and coaches kept saying he was. (Check). Melton had to come back from his injury and play at a high level. (In limits snaps so far, check). Spencer had to come back and play at least at an effective level. (So far, check). Mincey had to hold the fort until DLawrence got heathy. Check)

So in general, I think the team has got five solid-to-good pieces right now for an eight man rotation. If Lawrence can at least give 15-20 effective plays per game at RDE soon, that's another piece. That leaves 1-tech as the biggest concern. We just need another one or two things to go right there...either Okoye or Brent to show up strong, or Bishop or McClain to start stepping up. This coud end up being a pretty good..not great, but pretty good..line the second half of the season, if the secondary keeps helping out with the kind of coverage we saw on Sunday and if the offense can keep them off the field like they've been doing.
 
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Just the fact that there was only 48 defensive snaps is a story unto itself. It speaks to the great running game and dominating the time of possession. More evidence of how well this o-line is playing.

It's a great formula for success. Hopefully the team can keep it going.
 

conner01

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should be able to get to a qb with those guys all playing later in the year
 

honyock

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Just the fact that there was only 48 defensive snaps is a story unto itself. It speaks to the great running game and dominating the time of possession. More evidence of how well this o-line is playing.

It's a great formula for success. Hopefully the team can keep it going.

That's huge. I don't remember exactly the number from last year, but I want to say the average was closer to 70 defensive snaps per game. That's such a big difference for keeping those d-linemen fresh.
 

Zordon

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man do you remember what we used to think about spencer 4-5 years ago? my opinion of him has done a 180, he's one of the most reliable linemen in football against the run game.
 

honyock

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man do you remember what we used to think about spencer 4-5 years ago? my opinion of him has done a 180, he's one of the most reliable linemen in football against the run game.

yeah perceptions do change. Going through a year on defense like we did last year will make ya appreciate solid players. He looked like the Spencer of old against the run on Sunday, in addtion to the pressure he was creating.
 

TonyRomo17

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Bishop has stepped up whenever they have given him a chance, Marinelli just loves Hayden for some reason,maybe its his motor, but I have seen Bishop play with that same kind of motor
 

Oh_Canada

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Durant WAS the most underrated player on the team until this past Sunday, when Maranelli showed him some love through Aikman than he proceeded to have his best game as a Cowboy.
 

JoeyBoy718

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I'm curious about where the DTs played. You specified who played RDE/LDE but not who played 3/1-tech. I'm also curious to see the number of snaps in the nickel vs the base.

A few interesting things to note. Before Crawford made the permanent switch to DT, I was expecting Spencer to split snaps with Mincey at RDE while Selvie and Crawford continued to split at LDE. Well, with Crawford now at DT, it's interesting to see Spencer only playing on the left side and Mincey playing almost every snap at RDE. That tells me either they really like Mincey or they don't see Spencer as a RDE. It'll be interesting to see how many snaps Lawrence gets at RDE when he comes back. Spencer has only been back for two weeks and he already has more snaps than the starter Selvie. Will the same thing happen with Lawrence at RDE?

I think we'll be pretty set at DE when Lawrence comes back. We really just need 2-man rotations on each side. Mincey/Lawrence on the right and Spencer/Selvie on the left should be fine (as long as everyone stays healthy). I'm interested to see what they do at DT (that's why I'm so curious to see the numbers at 3 and 1 tech in the nickel and base). If they're in the nickel 65% of the time and Melton and Crawford are on the field at the same time, then I can see them both getting a lot of snaps. But if they stay in the base a lot, or if they play Hayden in the nickel at the 1, then I think we'll continue to see similar numbers that we have now. Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Brent comes back. Is Hayden playing so much because McClain sucks? Or do they really like Hayden? If McClain sucks and they don't really like Hayden, will Brent take over the majority of the 1-tech snaps?
 

honyock

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I'm curious about where the DTs played. You specified who played RDE/LDE but not who played 3/1-tech. I'm also curious to see the number of snaps in the nickel vs the base.

A few interesting things to note. Before Crawford made the permanent switch to DT, I was expecting Spencer to split snaps with Mincey at RDE while Selvie and Crawford continued to split at LDE. Well, with Crawford now at DT, it's interesting to see Spencer only playing on the left side and Mincey playing almost every snap at RDE. That tells me either they really like Mincey or they don't see Spencer as a RDE. It'll be interesting to see how many snaps Lawrence gets at RDE when he comes back. Spencer has only been back for two weeks and he already has more snaps than the starter Selvie. Will the same thing happen with Lawrence at RDE?

I think we'll be pretty set at DE when Lawrence comes back. We really just need 2-man rotations on each side. Mincey/Lawrence on the right and Spencer/Selvie on the left should be fine (as long as everyone stays healthy). I'm interested to see what they do at DT (that's why I'm so curious to see the numbers at 3 and 1 tech in the nickel and base). If they're in the nickel 65% of the time and Melton and Crawford are on the field at the same time, then I can see them both getting a lot of snaps. But if they stay in the base a lot, or if they play Hayden in the nickel at the 1, then I think we'll continue to see similar numbers that we have now. Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens when Brent comes back. Is Hayden playing so much because McClain sucks? Or do they really like Hayden? If McClain sucks and they don't really like Hayden, will Brent take over the majority of the 1-tech snaps?

Well, it wasn't that straightforward. At times they'd pull a lb and insert a db, so I guess that'd be a nickel look, but Hayden and Crawford would be on the inside, with Hayden at 1 and Crawford at 3. At other times, when it was Crawford and Melton together in nickel, they'd move them all over the place. Sometimes they'd both be on the outside shoulder of the guards. Sometimes one of them was playing more of a 1 look and the other a 3. The line between 1 and 3 is more blurry on passing situations with the two best inside rushers side by side.

I counted the nickel looks by the linebackers a couple of times this season, but I didn't this time, so I'm not sure of the percentages this game.

But when Hayden was in, I believe every snap he was playing at 1. I didn't notice him anywhere but there.
McClain, he was the 1 for seven of his snaps, and the 3 alongside Hayden for three of his snaps.

I'm a little surprised that neither Spencer or Selvie is spending much if any time at RDE, giving Melton some snaps off, just to give him some rest. Selvie had one snap at RDE this game. If I'm remembering right, he's had a few snaps in a couple of the previous games at RDE. But for now, until Lawrence is ready, I guess they're just going to ride Mincey as long as they can.

I've got the same questions about why McClain isn't playing more as you do. I was expecting him to come in and be splitting plays at the 1 with Hayden and he hasn't come close to that yet.

Also, I'm just going to guess that when Lawrence comes back, Mincey will still get more snaps than Lawrence for awhile. I could see maybe 15-20 snaps for Lawrence starting out. Just a guess, that they'll use him on the outside the way they're currently using Melton on the inside, as the designated 3d down/obvious passing down rusher.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Well, it wasn't that straightforward. At times they'd pull a lb and insert a db, so I guess that'd be a nickel look, but Hayden and Crawford would be on the inside, with Hayden at 1 and Crawford at 3. At other times, when it was Crawford and Melton together in nickel, they'd move them all over the place. Sometimes they'd both be on the outside shoulder of the guards. Sometimes one of them was playing more of a 1 look and the other a 3. The line between 1 and 3 is more blurry on passing situations with the two best inside rushers side by side.

I counted the nickel looks by the linebackers a couple of times this season, but I didn't this time, so I'm not sure of the percentages this game.

But when Hayden was in, I believe every snap he was playing at 1. I didn't notice him anywhere but there.
McClain, he was the 1 for seven of his snaps, and the 3 alongside Hayden for three of his snaps.

I'm a little surprised that neither Spencer or Selvie is spending much if any time at RDE, giving Melton some snaps off, just to give him some rest. Selvie had one snap at RDE this game. If I'm remembering right, he's had a few snaps in a couple of the previous games at RDE. But for now, until Lawrence is ready, I guess they're just going to ride Mincey as long as they can.

I've got the same questions about why McClain isn't playing more as you do. I was expecting him to come in and be splitting plays at the 1 with Hayden and he hasn't come close to that yet.

Also, I'm just going to guess that when Lawrence comes back, Mincey will still get more snaps than Lawrence for awhile. I could see maybe 15-20 snaps for Lawrence starting out. Just a guess, that they'll use him on the outside the way they're currently using Melton on the inside, as the designated 3d down/obvious passing down rusher.

Good stuff. So would you say every time Melton was in Crawford was also in? I'm trying to figure out exactly how they're using Melton. It seems like Crawford is the 3-tech and Hayden is the 1-tech in the base. But what are they doing with Melton? Just pairing him with Crawford to get pressure in the nickel?
 

honyock

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Good stuff. So would you say every time Melton was in Crawford was also in? I'm trying to figure out exactly how they're using Melton. It seems like Crawford is the 3-tech and Hayden is the 1-tech in the base. But what are they doing with Melton? Just pairing him with Crawford to get pressure in the nickel?

I counted this for Melton's snaps. He and Crawford were on the field together for 12 snaps, all in nickel/3rd or 4th downs. There were a few plays where they had Melton replacing Crawford at the 3 in the base, with either Hayden or McClain next to him at the 1. They would also have some obvious pass rush situations where Melton and McClain, or Melton and Hayden, would be on the field together.

The overall trend though, was they wanted both Crawford and Melton together inside on big passing downs, especially third downs. And they had Crawford on the field at the 3 for the lion's share of the base defense snaps.
 

xwalker

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Terrell McClain was only in for 10 plays. I'm curious whats going on with him...if he's not healthy yet or just hasn't shown enough to take snaps away from Hayden. If he's going to play this little, I'd rather see them activate Bishop and give him those snaps. The coaches must Iove Hayden to keep giving him the bulk of the 1-tech snaps.
I don't understand having Bishop inactive.

I think the basic reasoning is that Marinelli really wants one 1-tech and three 3-techs active. Due to having both 3-techs in the game in obvious passing situations, there are many more snaps for 3-tech types, then 1-tech types. Terrell McClain is (in theory) both a 3-tech or 1-tech; whereas, Bishop is a 1-tech only.

The other issue is that coaches like veteran players. If Bishop and Hayden are similar, then coaches are going to go with the veteran player. Bishop would have to be much much better than Hayden to get the start over him.
 

honyock

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I don't understand having Bishop inactive.

I think the basic reasoning is that Marinelli really wants one 1-tech and three 3-techs active. Due to having both 3-techs in the game in obvious passing situations, there are many more snaps for 3-tech types, then 1-tech types. Terrell McClain is (in theory) both a 3-tech or 1-tech; whereas, Bishop is a 1-tech only.

The other issue is that coaches like veteran players. If Bishop and Hayden are similar, then coaches are going to go with the veteran player. Bishop would have to be much much better than Hayden to get the start over him.
Makes sense about the advantage of having McClain active as a 1/3. The coaches are going to have some hard choices ahead in a few games if Brent comes back at a level that warrants significant snaps. I can't see them cutting Hayden, more like having he and Brent share snaps at 1. But that means two pure 1's active, so Marinellit probably wouldn't get his three 3-techs active unless he wants to have 9 d-linemen active. Something's gotta give there.

And I'd be surprised if they keep 6 tackles on the 53, so they'd have a decision to make about who to cut. Bishop could be the odd man out.

And that doesn't take Okoye into account.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Makes sense about the advantage of having McClain active as a 1/3. The coaches are going to have some hard choices ahead in a few games if Brent comes back at a level that warrants significant snaps. I can't see them cutting Hayden, more like having he and Brent share snaps at 1. But that means two pure 1's active, so Marinellit probably wouldn't get his three 3-techs active unless he wants to have 9 d-linemen active. Something's gotta give there.

And I'd be surprised if they keep 6 tackles on the 53, so they'd have a decision to make about who to cut. Bishop could be the odd man out.

And that doesn't take Okoye into account.

And Okoye is supposed to be healthy now. I'm wondering if he'd take over McClain's snaps. I can see Okoye playing the 1-tech/3-tech role.
 

xwalker

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Makes sense about the advantage of having McClain active as a 1/3. The coaches are going to have some hard choices ahead in a few games if Brent comes back at a level that warrants significant snaps. I can't see them cutting Hayden, more like having he and Brent share snaps at 1. But that means two pure 1's active, so Marinellit probably wouldn't get his three 3-techs active unless he wants to have 9 d-linemen active. Something's gotta give there.

And I'd be surprised if they keep 6 tackles on the 53, so they'd have a decision to make about who to cut. Bishop could be the odd man out.

And that doesn't take Okoye into account.
It's unfortunate that T. McClain was injured. If he was the starting 1-tech then it would be easier to consider replacing Hayden with Bishop or Brent because of McClain's ability to play either spot.

I think one of the reasons that players play hard for Marinelli is that he is committed to them. He seems very committed to Hayden.
 
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