DMN Blog: Cowboys search for 'football players' at scouting combine

[WoodysGirl]

11:32 AM Thu, Feb 19, 2009 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
Tim MacMahon http://www.***BANNED-URL***/blogs/images/email-icon.jpg E-mail http://www.***BANNED-URL***/blogs/images/email-icon.jpg News tips

Draft nuts can tune into the NFL Network and watch prospects run 40s, bench 225 pounds as many times as possible and do a bunch of drills at the NFL scouting combine this week. But they can't watch what might be the most important part of the combine for the Cowboys: the team interviews with the players.

The Cowboys should place an emphasis on character in this draft, considering the combustible mix in the Valley Ranch locker room. With the lack of leadership on this team, it's important to draft players with the right mentality.

"We have enough athletes," a front office fella told me late in the season. "We need more football players."

CB Mike Jenkins, one of the Cowboys' first-round picks last season, is an athlete. He has the tools to be a starter. We'll see whether Jenkins, who arrived in the league with questions about his work ethic, has the intangibles. He's best known right now for getting out of Derrick Ward's way on a TD run and blaming a teammate for not making the tackle.

RB Tashard Choice, a fourth-round pick, is a football player. His intangibles were impeccable. There were questions about his tools, specifically if he was fast enough to be a successful NFL running back. He hushed those doubts by carrying the load for the Cowboys during December, when he was the star-studded team's best offensive player.

Jenkins could still end up being a good pick for the Cowboys. But they'd be better off taking their chances with some more Choices in this draft.


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[theogt]

How about athletic football players, like Scandrick and Jones?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

"We have enough athletes," a front office fella told me late in the season. "We need more football players."

:clap2:

Now, will Jerry listen? He loves him some numbers and "potential".

 

[superpunk]

How about athletic football players, like Scandrick and Jones?

Felix Jones? I didn't think he wowed the crowds with his athleticism? (At the combine, measurables-wise)

 

[sonnyboy]

:clap2:

Now, will Jerry listen? He loves him some numbers and "potential".

Don't we all.

Truth be told, I'm sure Jerry and everyother GM wants it all in each player. Character and Measurables.

You show me a team with 53 character guys posessing limited measurables and I'll show you an 8-8 team.
You show me a team with 53 guys posessing great measurables and little character and I'll show you another 8-8 team.

Character is not always such an easy thing to measure. With players like Choice it is. For the majority of the players select, it's not that easy.

In the final analysis, you're gonna end up with all three types. You just have to hope you have enough guys with the total package and a coaching staff to get the most out of the other guys.

 

[theogt]

Felix Jones? I didn't think he wowed the crowds with his athleticism? (At the combine, measurables-wise)

It's his physical ability (his extremely fast burst) that makes him special. Yes, he has great vision and other "football" qualities, but without his burst, I don't think he'd be that good.

As far as the combine, his 10 yard split was pretty amazing.

 

[jday]

Don't we all.

Truth be told, I'm sure Jerry and everyother GM wants it all in each player. Character and Measurables.

You show me a team with 53 character guys posessing limited measurables and I'll show you an 8-8 team.
You show me a team with 53 guys posessing great measurables and little character and I'll show you another 8-8 team.

Character is not always such an easy thing to measure. With players like Choice it is. For the majority of the players select, it's not that easy.

In the final analysis, you're gonna end up with all three types. You just have to hope you have enough guys with the total package and a coaching staff to get the most out of the other guys.

:clap2:

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Don't we all.

Truth be told, I'm sure Jerry and everyother GM wants it all in each player. Character and Measurables.

You show me a team with 53 character guys posessing limited measurables and I'll show you an 8-8 team.
You show me a team with 53 guys posessing great measurables and little character and I'll show you another 8-8 team.

Character is not always such an easy thing to measure. With players like Choice it is. For the majority of the players select, it's not that easy.

In the final analysis, you're gonna end up with all three types. You just have to hope you have enough guys with the total package and a coaching staff to get the most out of the other guys.

Sure they do. But those players are only at the top of the draft. Later on, you're going to have to give up something, and in the past Jerry went with guys like Derek Ross and Willie Blade and Kareem Lattimore who had all kinds of talent but were headcases.

Now last year was tons better, so hopefully he has learned something. I still think back to the Courtney Brown/Alan Ball decision, though.

Jerry was masterful at trading for extra picks last year. If he just listens to his scouts and coaches when it comes time to actually select the players, we'll be fine.

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

In a recent DC.com article, Eatman writes that Dallas needs more speed at the WR position. I disagre somewhat because speed connotes athelticism. Yes we need WRs that can play fast, but how about WRs that can also play WR technically well? That does not take speed; it requires football-ability.

The reason the NFL sees so many WRs taken high, only to have them become busts, is that teams put too much emphasis on pure speed. Specifically, if a guy runs a great 40-yard-dash time at the combine, IN SHORTS, then his WR draft status rises. But all too often, these "burners" slow down when the pads come on, or maybe they get linited in when not running a straight 40, but instead asked to stop-cut-pivot and then take off again, as they need to do as WRs when running routes. In other words, they lack this "football speed" which in the end makes then busts at WR.

So this year, I expct may burners to go high. But Dallas will be primed to draft some of these "non-burners" also, who may be slow in shorts, but play faster when the pads go on. So in the end, this is the kind of player Dallas needs to look for in the second round; and if a WR of this sort falls to them in the secind round - which is quite possible - then I hope they draft him. And I would not necessarily label such a player a "project"; I think "a steal" would be much more fitting.

 

[MissionCoach]

DMN Blog: Cowboys search for 'football players' at scouting combine

Good deal...beats the Baseball Players we usually end up with :laugh2:

 

[Chief]

CB Mike Jenkins, one of the Cowboys' first-round picks last season, is an athlete. He has the tools to be a starter. We'll see whether Jenkins, who arrived in the league with questions about his work ethic, has the intangibles. He's best known right now for getting out of Derrick Ward's way on a TD run and blaming a teammate for not making the tackle.

I wanted Cason last year instead of Jenkins. There are guys available each year who have both character and a lot of physical ability.

 

[khiladi]

Funny how everybody was complaining that we need leaders and players with attitude, suddenly, they need nice guys. Funny how everybody is saying that Ware needs to start getting a little meaner and taking control of this defense. Who has an edge on this team? We need players with an edge, that like to get down and dirty, who get offended when the team plays sloppy football. No, we need athletes that know how to play football. This team has no identity on the football field, because we are too nice. Greg Ellis was a 'character pick' as well, and it cost Jerry Jones Randy Moss...And BTW, why does everybody keep telling us we need 'speed' for a WR? Speed for what? To run deep passes, that the opposing teams is already defending, because they know Garrett likes to go vertical? Maybe Garrett should try and develop an effective play-action to get teams to cheat their safeties up. This team will live and die with their offensive coaching. We don't need to even really have to draft a WR, with who is already in our starting line-up.</p>

 

[Hoofbite]

Wow. This sounds so far from Jerry Jones that there is no way he is the guy who said it.

 

[Big Country]

It's his physical ability (his extremely fast burst) that makes him special. Yes, he has great vision and other "football" qualities, but without his burst, I don't think he'd be that good.

As far as the combine, his 10 yard split was pretty amazing.

WOW!! i didn't think his legs were that long?!:laugh1:

 

[sonnyboy]

In a recent DC.com article, Eatman writes that Dallas needs more speed at the WR position. I disagre somewhat because speed connotes athelticism. Yes we need WRs that can play fast, but how about WRs that can also play WR technically well? That does not take speed; it requires football-ability.

The reason the NFL sees so many WRs taken high, only to have them become busts, is that teams put too much emphasis on pure speed. Specifically, if a guy runs a great 40-yard-dash time at the combine, IN SHORTS, then his WR draft status rises. But all too often, these "burners" slow down when the pads come on, or maybe they get linited in when not running a straight 40, but instead asked to stop-cut-pivot and then take off again, as they need to do as WRs when running routes. In other words, they lack this "football speed" which in the end makes then busts at WR.

So this year, I expct may burners to go high. But Dallas will be primed to draft some of these "non-burners" also, who may be slow in shorts, but play faster when the pads go on. So in the end, this is the kind of player Dallas needs to look for in the second round; and if a WR of this sort falls to them in the secind round - which is quite possible - then I hope they draft him. And I would not necessarily label such a player a "project"; I think "a steal" would be much more fitting.

I've always thought their was something to this. How can a Jerry Rice run such a mediocre 40 time at the combine, but look like the fastest player on the field for 10 plus years?

Seen a lot of explanations for this in the past but I've never seen anyone consider pad weight.

Full pads must weigh 30 plus lbs. Is it possible some players lacking strength simply do not translate their track speed to full pad game speed.

That's significant for your average skill player. If you weigh 200 lbs, you're adding 15%, perhaps more, to your body weight with pads. Stands to reason your speed and agility will be reduced. Also stands to reason that some players will have a more significant drop-off.

Why not have all these players work out in full pads? Have them run the forty, the cone drill, the high jump and every other drill under the same conditions they will be playing in.

 

[peplaw06]

Good deal...beats the Baseball Players we usually end up with :laugh2:

Damn I was wondering why we haven't been successful. Apparently we haven't been looking for football players.

 

[2much2soon]

In a recent DC.com article, Eatman writes that Dallas needs more speed at the WR position. I disagre somewhat because speed connotes athelticism. Yes we need WRs that can play fast, but how about WRs that can also play WR technically well? That does not take speed; it requires football-ability.

The reason the NFL sees so many WRs taken high, only to have them become busts, is that teams put too much emphasis on pure speed. Specifically, if a guy runs a great 40-yard-dash time at the combine, IN SHORTS, then his WR draft status rises. But all too often, these "burners" slow down when the pads come on, or maybe they get linited in when not running a straight 40, but instead asked to stop-cut-pivot and then take off again, as they need to do as WRs when running routes. In other words, they lack this "football speed" which in the end makes then busts at WR.

So this year, I expct may burners to go high. But Dallas will be primed to draft some of these "non-burners" also, who may be slow in shorts, but play faster when the pads go on. So in the end, this is the kind of player Dallas needs to look for in the second round; and if a WR of this sort falls to them in the secind round - which is quite possible - then I hope they draft him. And I would not necessarily label such a player a "project"; I think "a steal" would be much more fitting.

Jeremy Childs WR, BSU. Will be available in the late rounds.
Great route runner, great hands, physical. Pass-happy BSU's all-time leading receiver.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

How about athletic football players, like Scandrick and Jones?

I think the premium should be placed on that, but the deciding factor between 2 supreme athletes should be, which one is the more character sound

example DeMarcus Ware, he's as unassuming and humble as any player, yet he's a Neptune as an athlete, they had to make the choice between him and Merriman, and Ware was just the more stable person, and they went with that

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

OMG well said at the end... They need 40 more Tashard Choices! You can't forget the professional manner in which Scandrick went about either, he's both a football player and athlete, got to love that combination!

:clap2:

 

[BAT]

"We have enough athletes," a front office fella told me late in the season. "We need more football players."

Yes, draft guys who can play_who make plays NOW. Sprinkle a little "nasty" and/or "smarts" on that caveat and here's my list of "football playing dudes" who should be available when Dallas picks:

DB Sean Smith 6'3 210 4.39

OL Alex Mack 6'4 310 5.10

OL Max Unger 6'5 300 4.95

SS Pat Chung 5'11 210 4.49

OLB/DE Paul Kruger 6'5 265 4.61

DL Jarron Gilbert 6'5 287 4.85

DL/LB Mitch King 6'2 275 4.75

FS William Moore 6'0 220 4.49

LB/SS Jonathan Casillas 6'2 225 4.42

LB Zack Follett 6'2 235 4.56

LB Jason Phillips 6'1 235 4.59

SS Emanuel Cook 5'10 210 4.49

LB Josh Mauga 6'2 245 4.59

WR Ramses Barden 6'6 225 4.55

LB Lee Robinson 6'3 250 4.62

DB Lardarius Webb 5'10 180 4.40