DMN: Blog: History lesson: Can D-Mac measure up?

Cbz40

The Grand Poobah
Messages
31,387
Reaction score
39
History lesson: Can D-Mac measure up?

8:22 PM Sun, Jan 27, 2008 | Permalink
Albert Breer

I’m on record, and I’ll say it again: I would not be on board with the Cowboys putting together a monster package to trade up and get Arkansas superstar Darren McFadden.


But there’s history that, in a roundabout way, backs that kind of deal. Most people frequenting Cowboys Blog, I figure, would consider Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith the two greatest tailbacks in club history. I’ll bet I can even get Cowboys historian Timmy Tabloid to agree with that.


So what do Dorsett and Smith have in common? They both came to Dallas as a result of draft-day trade-ups that, in hindsight, look about as lopsided as a 1980s Super Bowl.


The lesson here would be that if you believe a player is going to be that special, you do what it takes. I don’t think McFadden will wind up having a career like those Dallas legends. But I will say that if Jerry Jones and Co. are fairly certain that he’ll be that kind of back, then they should pull the trigger. Again, I would NOT be on board with the move.


Follow the jump to see proof positive that the deal could be worth making.



THE DORSETT TRADE
In the final analysis, after much wheeling-and-dealing, the smoke cleared to show that the Cowboys came away with Dorsett and QB Glenn Carano (54th overall), while the Seahawks reaped OT Steve August (14th overall), OG Tom Lynch (30th overall), LB Terry Beeson (41st overall) and Cowboys receiver Duke Ferguson. (Note: It was impossible to find the official rundown of the trade, so this is how I cobbled it together.)


On the Seattle side, August started at right tackle for six years (1978-83) and Lynch started at left guard for three years (1978-80). Beeson was the team’s starting middle linebacker for five years (1977-81), and led the team in tackles his first three years in the league. Ferguson, meanwhile, caught 23 passes in three years as a Seahawk.


Three of those players were traded later – Lynch to Buffalo in ’81, Beeson to Atlanta in ’82 and August to Pittsburgh in ’84. Only August lasted long enough to play in a playoff game for the Seahawks.


Meanwhile, Tony Dorsett made four Pro Bowls, posted eight 1,000-yard seasons and won a Super Bowl in his 11 years as a Cowboy. Carano spent seven seasons as a back-up to Roger Staubach and Danny White in Dallas.


THE SMITH TRADE
Of course, the Cowboys were able to do this in the first place because of a mammoth package put together for Herschel Walker. But there was a trade-up involved in order for Dallas to cop Smith.


When Smith dropped into the mid-teens, Jones and Jimmy Johnson worked a deal with the Steelers, sending first- and third-round picks, 21st and 81st overall, to get the 17th selection and draft him.


The Steelers used the first selection on Liberty TE Eric Green and the second one on Houston DT Craig Veasey. Green made the Pro Bowl in the final two of his five years as a Steeler, before leaving for Miami in 1995. Veasey made two starts in two years in Pittsburgh, and was waived before the 1992 season.


Smith, of course, posted 11 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons, made eight Pro Bowls and broke the NFL’s all-time rushing record in his 13 seasons as a Cowboy.


CONCLUSION
As is stated above, dealing up, and giving up a lot, for a Hall of Famer will always look good in the rear-view mirror. But if you’re going to give up a haul like the Cowboys will have to in order to get McFadden, you better be sure you’re getting a really, really good player in return.
 

ROMOSAPIEN9

Proud Grandpa
Messages
2,251
Reaction score
1
Cbz40 said:
THE SMITH TRADE
Of course, the Cowboys were able to do this in the first place because of a mammoth package put together for Herschel Walker. But there was a trade-up involved in order for Dallas to cop Smith.


When Smith dropped into the mid-teens, Jones and Jimmy Johnson worked a deal with the Steelers, sending first- and third-round picks, 21st and 81st overall, to get the 17th selection and draft him.


The Steelers used the first selection on Liberty TE Eric Green and the second one on Houston DT Craig Veasey. Green made the Pro Bowl in the final two of his five years as a Steeler, before leaving for Miami in 1995. Veasey made two starts in two years in Pittsburgh, and was waived before the 1992 season.


Smith, of course, posted 11 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons, made eight Pro Bowls and broke the NFL’s all-time rushing record in his 13 seasons as a Cowboy.


I coulda sworn the Cowboys traded up in that draft to get linebacker James Francis out of Baylor. Then the Bengals took him right before the Cowboys picked, so they settled for Emmitt........and the rest as they say is....HIS-TOE-RY!
 

Big Dakota

New Member
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
0
ROMOSAPIEN9;1929586 said:
I coulda sworn the Cowboys traded up in that draft to get linebacker James Francis out of Baylor. Then the Bengals took him right before the Cowboys picked, so they settled for Emmitt........and the rest as they say is....HIS-TOE-RY!

I watched that entire draft. Jimmy wanted the bengals pick but the bengals wouldn't trade because they wanted Francis. But i could be wrong:confused: Boy's ended up trading down, then back up for Emmitt, after they couldn't trade up for Francis.

Remember the CB from Baylor we drafted, Ron Francis? Wasn't he related(brother?)
 

ROMOSAPIEN9

Proud Grandpa
Messages
2,251
Reaction score
1
Big Dakota;1929593 said:
I watched that entire draft. Jimmy wanted the bengals pick but the bengals wouldn't trade because they wanted Francis. But i could be wrong:confused: Boy's ended up trading down, then back up for Emmitt, after they couldn't trade up for Francis.

Remember the CB from Baylor we drafted, Ron Francis? Wasn't he related(brother?)

I didn't realize they had traded back down, then back up again to get Emmitt. I guess that's where I was a bit confused.

Dunno if Ron & James Francis' are related.
 

sbark

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,213
Reaction score
4,407
D-Mac is sooo great ---He will actually hurt our passing game......:eek:

D-mac is so unstoppable and flat out speed that teams will have to only put 7 in the box in order to just be able to get angles on him down-field on a run play...........:p:

but that of course just puts a bunch of extra defenders deep enough to jump the passing routes..........

Now if you beleived all that.............:cool:
*****************************************

but now in all seriousness.........If Jerry gets off the duff and fills the real needs of CB and a vet WR via Free Agency, and resigns the critical Home guys..........go for it........make it happen.....he'll be the guy takeing the risk and getting the rewards...
 

CF74

Vet Min Plus
Messages
26,167
Reaction score
14,623
Every time I hear about trading up I think about Tony Dorsette, but playing 16 plus games a year has made this a more pass happy game and a 2 RB league. Why spend so much on a guy that can't carry the rock 20 + times over a 16+ game schedule? It just doesn't make sense anymore and the draft is sooo deep with RB's this year it's foolish.

Course I could be wrong but doubt it...
 

NorthDalal

Active Member
Messages
698
Reaction score
115
Think Rashann Salaam, Curtis Enis and J.J. Arrington and your evil thoughts about trading up for unstoppable college runners will dissapate.
 

Nexx

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,041
Reaction score
5,476
NorthDalal;1929646 said:
Think Rashann Salaam, Curtis Enis and J.J. Arrington and your evil thoughts about trading up for unstoppable college runners will dissapate.

how about the great blair thomas who was drafted 2nd overall in the same draft we took emmitt 17th. :lmao2:
 

Rack

Federal Agent
Messages
23,906
Reaction score
3,106
JJ Arrington wasn't even a first round pick. Don't know how he got on that list.




In the last 15 drafts, RBs drafted in the top 15 have been very successful. 22 RBs have been drafted in the top 15 of the last 15 drafts, and 5 of them are likely hall of famers. Another 2-3 are possible Hall of Famers. We're not jsut talking "Good" players, we're talking GREAT football players.



Fact of the matter is if we did trade up for him and he turned into an all pro not a single person here would complain about it.


You can have Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer, Ebenezer Ekuban, and David Lafleur all you want, I'd rather trade up and take a chance that we get a great player.


That said, no way do I trade more than 2 first round pics. And I don't trade MB3 either. Not unless the Fins will take MB3 and only ONE first round pick, then I'd consider it.


RBs usually drop a bit in the draft so I'd rather wait till draft day and if he drops to about #7, I'd try to make the trade.
 

CF74

Vet Min Plus
Messages
26,167
Reaction score
14,623
Rack;1929651 said:
JJ Arrington wasn't even a first round pick. Don't know how he got on that list.




In the last 15 drafts, RBs drafted in the top 15 have been very successful. 22 RBs have been drafted in the top 15 of the last 15 drafts, and 5 of them are likely hall of famers. Another 2-3 are possible Hall of Famers. We're not jsut talking "Good" players, we're talking GREAT football players.



Fact of the matter is if we did trade up for him and he turned into an all pro not a single person here would complain about it.


You can have Marcus Spears, Bobby Carpenter, Anthony Spencer, Ebenezer Ekuban, and David Lafleur all you want, I'd rather trade up and take a chance that we get a great player.


That said, no way do I trade more than 2 first round pics. And I don't trade MB3 either. Not unless the Fins will take MB3 and only ONE first round pick, then I'd consider it.


RBs usually drop a bit in the draft so I'd rather wait till draft day and if he drops to about #7, I'd try to make the trade.

http://i185.***BLOCKED***/albums/x208/samck4/Spencer-sack-350.jpg

Take Spencer off that list and I might agree with you...
 

gazmc_06

New Member
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
0
If what I heard about Barber and one 1st round pick was true then I would do that in a heartbeat. I love watching Barber and think he is a great player, but how long can he hold up with his style of running? I would love to have McFadden who I think will be an amazing talent - college and pro's.
 

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,515
Reaction score
12,530
The difference between McFadden and the other failed early #1 picks is speed. When you have a RB with breakaway speed, you get some easy scores and long runs that really help your offense.
 

yesfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,780
Reaction score
661
I hate to even think Barber would be in this deal but,if they were
to do this send only 1 pick and package Barber and Fasano.I'm sure
with about 7 coaches taken,Jerry and Bill will work something out.
 

CrazyCowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
32,287
Reaction score
440
THE SMITH TRADE
Of course, the Cowboys were able to do this in the first place because of a mammoth package put together for Herschel Walker. But there was a trade-up involved in order for Dallas to cop Smith.


When Smith dropped into the mid-teens, Jones and Jimmy Johnson worked a deal with the Steelers, sending first- and third-round picks, 21st and 81st overall, to get the 17th selection and draft him.


The Steelers used the first selection on Liberty TE Eric Green and the second one on Houston DT Craig Veasey. Green made the Pro Bowl in the final two of his five years as a Steeler, before leaving for Miami in 1995. Veasey made two starts in two years in Pittsburgh, and was waived before the 1992 season.


Smith, of course, posted 11 consecutive 1,000-yard seasons, made eight Pro Bowls and broke the NFL’s all-time rushing record in his 13 seasons as a Cowboy.

Thank you steelers
 

Hoofbite

Well-Known Member
Messages
40,870
Reaction score
11,569
yesfan;1929666 said:
I hate to even think Barber would be in this deal but,if they were
to do this send only 1 pick and package Barber and Fasano.I'm sure
with about 7 coaches taken,Jerry and Bill will work something out.

I hate to do the trade period if it involves Barber. As previously stated, Looking for 2 backs this offseason is a death-wish in pass protection. No way could you pay a free agent like Turner to come in and then pay for the #1 pick.

I'm beginning to hate this trade talk more and more. McFadden is an excellent prospect but I just don't see how you can tell me that drafting him and giving up 2 picks and 1 player is better then standing still and picking.

Dallas has 3 picks in the top 60. Build that talent pool on the team and add some depth.

Lets get some prospects on this team that can be true starters in a few years. I love the potential at WR but if the front office is really keeping their hopes high that some combination of a 4th rounder, a 7th rounder and 2 undrafted players is the future at that position, I think they are going to be a little disappointed. I think Dallas needs to cut bait with one of those guys (Hurd IMO) and bring in someone who can really be looked at as a future starter. I'm all for the Roy Williams (Det) but I don't think it will go anywhere.

I just don't see the need to draft McFadden. Barber is more then capable and getting someone to spell him and keeping those picks would do a lot more for this team, IMO
 

BlueStar II

New Member
Messages
1,815
Reaction score
1
wayne motley;1929663 said:
The difference between McFadden and the other failed early #1 picks is speed. When you have a RB with breakaway speed, you get some easy scores and long runs that really help your offense.

:starspin I'm not questioning or debating with you that McFadden has speed, he does, but as I looked around at pre-draft profiles on players, it listed McFadden and Felix Jones as both having 4.4 speed though. If...that listed speed is correct for both of them, then I think Jones would come at a much better price for us than McFadden. Again, I'm not trying to debate or question with you that McFadden has the speed, but if what I saw in the player profile section is accurate, then is seems that Felix Jones has basically the same speed as McFadden. I wasn't able to see very many Arkansas games, so maybe someone on here who has, can give me their take on how the two players measure up speed wise. Thanks... I'll try to include a link below that shows their listed times, etc..

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/qb.html
 

big dog cowboy

THE BIG DOG
Staff member
Messages
101,898
Reaction score
112,890
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
BlueStar II;1929772 said:
:starspin I'm not questioning or debating with you that McFadden has speed, he does, but as I looked around at pre-draft profiles on players, it listed McFadden and Felix Jones as both having 4.4 speed though. If...that listed speed is correct for both of them, then I think Jones would come at a much better price for us than McFadden. Again, I'm not trying to debate or question with you that McFadden has the speed, but if what I saw in the player profile section is accurate, then is seems that Felix Jones has basically the same speed as McFadden. I wasn't able to see very many Arkansas games, so maybe someone on here who has, can give me their take on how the two players measure up speed wise. Thanks... I'll try to include a link below that shows their listed times, etc..

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/qb.html
The scouting combine will sort all that stuff out. Thankfully it is coming up very soon.
 

joseephuss

Well-Known Member
Messages
28,041
Reaction score
6,920
ELDudearino;1929613 said:
Every time I hear about trading up I think about Tony Dorsette, but playing 16 plus games a year has made this a more pass happy game and a 2 RB league. Why spend so much on a guy that can't carry the rock 20 + times over a 16+ game schedule? It just doesn't make sense anymore and the draft is sooo deep with RB's this year it's foolish.

Course I could be wrong but doubt it...

Dorsett played when it was a 16 game schedule except for his rookie season. His first year in the NFL was the last year the league played a 14 game schedule.

Dorsett also did not carry the ball 20 times a game except for one season. In his 5th year in the league he had 342 carries or 21.4 per game. One of his complaints is that Landry did not give him the ball enough. Landry did not want to wear him down, so he made sure to use a lot of ball carriers. Landry always believed in a multi back system.

I agree that trading up so much for McFadden is not a good idea. Dallas is not one great back away from winning it all. If any thing they can be set at running back with Barber and any rookie back they can get later in the draft. They need to address some other areas of the team.
 
Top