DMN Burnett Blog: Bigger, Stronger, Faster

AdamJT13;2101431 said:
I see you're back to throwing all of the blame at Roy for other people's mistakes. No wonder you suddenly bailed out of the other thread. Couldn't handle the truth, huh?

AdamJT13,

I didn't bail out of anything. I left a boat load of evidence that refuted many of the things you were saying. The links are all there.

You accuse me of calling others lyers when you are the one going out of your way to distort the facts.

To say that the Cowboys were not playing Cover 2 on the second Santana Moss TD exposes your biased views towards Roy Williams. I left a link there where Pro Football Weekly confirmed Dallas was in Cover 2 on those two TDs to Moss.

However, I don't need Pro Football Weekly. I know that in cover 2, the safeties half the deep third right down the middle. I know there are 5 defenders underneath playing zone. The corners count as underneath defenders, and they have to sink with the receiver in their zone if he goes deep. That is exactly what Dallas' corners did.

The spin stops here, Adam.

You are the one that disappeared. Some other guys left you some posts if you want to go back there and read them.

If you want to debate, fine, but quit making up stuff without providing the proof and accusing me of not telling the truth.

I led the charge defending Terence Newman here one time. Now, that I am objective about Roy Williams' play, it is smear time.
 
41gy#;2101437 said:
AdamJT13,

I didn't bail out of anything. I left a boat load of evidence that refuted many of the things you were saying. The links are all there.

You accuse me of calling others lyers when you are the one going out of your way to distort the facts.

To say that the Cowboys were not playing Cover 2 on the second Santana Moss TD exposes your biased views towards Roy Williams. I left a link there where Pro Football Weekly confirmed Dallas was in Cover 2 on those two TDs to Moss.

However, I don't need Pro Football Weekly. I know that in cover 2, the safeties half the deep third right down the middle. I know there are 5 defenders underneath playing zone. The corners count as underneath defenders, and they have to sink with the receiver in their zone if he goes deep. That is exactly what Dallas' corners did.

The spin stops here, Adam.

You are the one that disappeared. Some other guys left you some posts if you want to go back there and read them.

If you want to debate, fine, but quit making up stuff without providing the proof and accusing me of not telling the truth.

I led the charge defending Terence Newman here one time. Now, that I am objective about Roy Williams' play, it is smear time.

What in the world are you talking about? Since your last post in that thread, I posted FOUR times in it. I provided plenty of evidence from people who know a lot more than some outsider at Pro Football Weekly about what coverage we were in -- including Bill Parcells himself, "everybody at Valley Ranch" (according to one of Roy's biggest critics, even) and the people on the Cowboys' radio shows.

There's no disputing that you bailed out of the thread when faced with an overwhelming mountain of proof against your opinion. Anyone can check the thread and see exactly when you last posted in it, so you can't even try to claim anything different. You posted a bunch of half-truths and zero-truths and bailed when your charade was exposed.
 
I think you two should pull that Roy Myth Thread back up to the top and slug it out. That thread ROCKS!!!!
 
Joe Rod;2101456 said:
I think you two should pull that Roy Myth Thread back up to the top and slug it out. That thread ROCKS!!!!

It's about time for that. I've got a few more myths to add. They just never stop coming.
 
Joe Rod;2101456 said:
I think you two should pull that Roy Myth Thread back up to the top and slug it out. That thread ROCKS!!!!
I hope you're being sarcastic, cause at this point all Roy Williams threads are absolute torture.
 
AdamJT13;2101449 said:
What in the world are you talking about? Since your last post in that thread, I posted FOUR times in it. I provided plenty of evidence from people who know a lot more than some outsider at Pro Football Weekly about what coverage we were in -- including Bill Parcells himself, "everybody at Valley Ranch" (according to one of Roy's biggest critics, even) and the people on the Cowboys' radio shows.

There's no disputing that you bailed out of the thread when faced with an overwhelming mountain of proof against your opinion. Anyone can check the thread and see exactly when you last posted in it, so you can't even try to claim anything different. You posted a bunch of half-truths and zero-truths and bailed when your charade was exposed.


What ever, Adam. When that thread went off the front page, you had not responded to my evidence against your wild claims. I thought the thread died. You still don't have any proof. The clip on the second Moss TD clearly shows Dallas in cover 2. The five underneath defenders were playing zone, not man as you claim. Anyone who watches football knows this. I provide links and video evidence, and you say Bill Parcells said... or radio people said... or "the people at Valley Ranch" said this or that. However, you don't have a link, but you demanded it of me on a few things, and I provided them.

I put up an extended Roy Williams quote (from DallasCowboys.com) where he took the blame in his own words. You spun that like Spider-man. You are still in denial. That should have been enough for you and anyone else. James Hasty, who played DB in the NFL, broke the play down on ESPN. He read coverages for a living. You said that he "didn't know" what the "call" was. You sound just like Roy Williams does when he points the finger at his teammates.

You claim Dallas was in quarters coverage on the Moss TDs. The film clearly showed Newman playing the underneath flats or shallow areas, the two corners sinking in zone with the WRs going deep (man concept but in a given zone), and the two linebackers in zone coverage. Newman played underneath zone in the flat. The middle linebacker dropped into the deep middle trying to protect the soft spot in the middle of the zone. The other linebacker played the opposite flat. The safeties were in a two deep zone, with the deep third divided in half. At no time, were there four defenders dividing the deep third into four equally divided parts. At no time was Dallas in a quarter-half-quarters zone or the mystery quarters defense you talk about. The fact that you stated Dallas was in a man defense on those plays should end the discussion.

By the way, I did give Glenn his blame on the plays.

One of the spots to attack the cover 2 is the "turkey hole", as Burnett called it (between the corner and safety). This is exactly where Brunell and Moss hit Dallas on the two plays. They ran the post and were able to split the "Turkey hole" on Wlliams and Glenn on the first one. Also, Glenn was playing inside technique in order to keep Moss away from the sidelines, so Williams wouldn't have to move as far to help him on the deep ball. The inside technique was used to force the receiver towards the inside where Williams was patroling his deep half.

However, Glenn gave Moss too much lateral space on the second TD while protecting his outside. This allowed the seam route (another route to attack the cover 2 deep) to get on Williams very fast, and Williams was over matched one on one. I will say Glenn really didn't help Roy at all on the second one. He was burned, too.

They ran the double post with Moss and Cooley on the first one, just to be clear since you say Roy was only responsible for Cooley and not Moss. Moss put a double move on Glenn. Williams over played or bit on a covered Cooley (Newman covered Cooley and passed him off (inside) in zone to the linebacker who had sunk into zone underneath the safties in the middle of the field) and couldn't get back to help the corner he was responsible for helping in cover 2. Again, who is Aaron Glenns' help on the play? Is Parcells going to leave him with no safety help in a 6 point game after Moss has already scored one time. Come on, Adam. How stupid do you think people are?
 
Vintage;2101039 said:
Alan Ball is sub 4.4?

The more important question is...

Is Glenn running a sub 4.4 right now? I know that Burnett isn't constantly carrying a stop watch, but if Glenn is running well enough right now to give Burnett the impression that he can hang with Newman and Owens in terms of speed, then that is very good news.
 
41gy#;2101500 said:
What ever, Adam. When that thread went off the front page, you had not responded to my evidence against your wild claims. I thought the thread died.

Oh, please. It was still on the front page when I responded (FOUR TIMES). And there were 48 -- FORTY-EIGHT-- posts in that thread after your last post in it. That means 48 different times, it was bumped up to the top of the front page, ALL on the SAME DAY you last posted in it.

You still don't have any proof.

I have all of the proof. I have the video clearly showing Dallas playing quarters coverage. I have Bill Parcells saying Roy wasn't supposed to be the "deep help" on those plays (like he would if it was Cover 2). I have Roy Williams saying those weren't his plays. I have one of Roy's biggest critics -- Jennifer Floyd-Engel -- saying that "EVERYBODY AT VALLEY RANCH SAYS WILLIAMS WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SANTANA MOSS" and "Glenn admits to being responsible for both of Washington's touchdowns." I have multiple posters on this board posting about what they heard on the Cowboys' radio shows after the game.

What do you have? Your own incorrect opinion that disagrees with Bill Parcells, Roy Williams, Aaron Glenn and "everybody at Valley Ranch" and an article from some journalist at Pro Football Weekly who doesn't know what coverage we were in.

The clip on the second Moss TD clearly shows Dallas in cover 2. The five underneath defenders were playing zone, not man as you claim. Anyone who watches football knows this.

You obviously don't know what quarters coverage is or how we played it under Parcells.

I provide links and video evidence, and you say Bill Parcells said... or radio people said... or "the people at Valley Ranch" said this or that. However, you don't have a link, but you demanded it of me on a few things, and I provided them.

All your links proved was that you didn't know what you were talking about. You claimed one thing, and the links said something different.

You want links?

http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092105.rm

Starting at 16:46 of the press conference --

Reporter: (Speaking about the two touchdowns by Moss) "Roy Williams, on those last two plays, was he supposed to be there and have deep help there?"

Parcells: "Well, no, it wasn't really his play. OK? It wasn't really his play. So ... I was asked that question after the game, and I told you whose play it was."​

Original link: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/12711745.htm

Link to archived story: http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...rpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

Link to article posted on this board: http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=517361&postcount=1


LITTLE BALLS OF HATE

By Jennifer Floyd Engel

Oops: Sports Illustrated listed safety Roy Williams as "one of the most overrated defensive players in the NFL" on Wednesday because of his poor coverage skills on display in Monday's loss to the Commanders, which would be a good point if not for that teeny, tiny fact that everybody at Valley Ranch says Williams was not responsible for Santana Moss.

... Glenn admits to being responsible for both of Washington's touchdowns.​


I put up an extended Roy Williams quote (from DallasCowboys.com) where he took the blame in his own words. You spun that like Spider-man.

YOU are the one who is spinning it, since Roy himself explained his quote.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/docs/Roy-note_0921.html

"Honestly those weren't my plays, but yeah, I took it upon myself to say that's my fault," Williams said.

You are still in denial. That should have been enough for you and anyone else.

So, because you say something that's wrong, I should believe you instead of Bill Parcells, Roy Williams, Aaron Glenn and "EVERYBODY AT VALLEY RANCH"?

James Hasty, who played DB in the NFL, broke the play down on ESPN. He read coverages for a living. You said that he "didn't know" what the "call" was.

He obviously didn't.


You claim Dallas was in quarters coverage on the Moss TDs. The film clearly showed Newman playing the underneath flats or shallow areas, the two corners sinking in zone with the WRs going deep (man concept but in a given zone), and the two linebackers in zone coverage. Newman played underneath zone in the flat. The middle linebacker dropped into the deep middle trying to protect the soft spot in the middle of the zone. The other linebacker played the opposite flat. The safeties were in a two deep zone, with the deep third divided in half. At no time, were there four defenders dividing the deep third into four equally divided parts. At no time was Dallas in a quarter-half-quarters zone or the mystery quarters defense you talk about. The fact that you stated Dallas was in a man defense on those plays should end the discussion.

Again, you obviously don't know how we played quarters coverage under Parcells. The underneath defenders play a zone. The outside cornerbacks take the outside receivers, and the safeties take the inside receivers (whether a slot receiver, tight end or even running back, whomever is the next inside receiver). The cornerbacks play man-to-man. The safeties read the inside receiver and cover man-to-man if they run a vertical route (post, go, corner, post-corner, etc.). If that receiver doesn't run a vertical route, they double the outside receiver.

Parcells explained exactly how we played quarters coverage in his press conference on Sept. 26, 2005 (one week after the Moss touchdowns), when he was talking about a play in our game against the 49ers. { If it was archived, I'd provide a link to the audio of that, too. } EDIT: Never mind, I found the link. I'll post the link, a recap and photos in a few minutes.

Again, who is Aaron Glenns' help on the play? Is Parcells going to leave him with no safety help in a 6 point game after Moss has already scored one time. Come on, Adam. How stupid do you think people are?

I think the answer is obvious from some of your posts.
 
41gy#;2101412 said:
http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia_center.cfm?id=3A4375BA-DE30-C9CC-257FDCDFEAB25DB0


These three plays help define why Roy Williams is under the microscope. It isn't a "media" conspiracy as some claim.

.

3 plays defines a RW game. I could show u highlights of TO dropping passes, Showing u he's not that good.... I could show u a couple fumbles Emmitt had, this will define Emmitt of not been a great runner. Wait I can show u film on Montana, Elway, Aikman, and Marino, showing u that these QBs are overrated and should never be in the HOF.

Roy will be OK, I always thought, well for the last 3 years or so he should be nickle LB or lose a good 10 lbs and work on his game and stop living off his rep.....
 
Here's the link to Parcells' press conference in which he describes how we played quarters coverage. This was one week after the Moss touchdowns, and he was talking about an 89-yard TD pass to Brandon Lloyd in our game against the 49ers.

Link: http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092605.rm

Starting at 11:30 of the press conference --

Reporter: It seemed like you were talking to Davis on that long play to Lloyd. You know, y'all had an extended discussion over there.

Parcells: Yeah, I sure did.

Reporter: Did he do something wrong on that play? Because it looked like he didn't think he did.

Parcells: Well, I know, he didn't think he did, but he found out different.

Reporter: What did he do wrong?

Parcells: Well, if you really want the actual explanation, we were in a quarters coverage, OK, and uh, there was no vertical threat on his side. It was a play-action pass away from him, so he basically was free of any responsibility. Well, the only responsibility, the only receiver left on his side was the guy that caught the ball. So why wouldn't you turn, with no other threat, wouldn't you turn that way to help? That's what you should do, and he didn't do it. So he's just back in there doing nothing. OK?

Reporter: Taking up space.

Parcells: Well, he's taking up his space, OK, when he should be realizing that he wasn't threatened. OK, now, 'where can I help?' You're certainly not going to help the other corner. He's way over there, two positions over. So. that's part of those growing pains I'm telling you about. That's part of the growing pain, right there. Not enough experience.

Reporter: Isn't that what he did, though? Didn't he peek inside on the slot receiver?

Parcells: Well, yeah, he might have, but a tenth of a second after the ball was snapped, he should have looked for the X (receiver). A tenth of a second. Because both backs ... had no vertical threat. It was just a split end on his side. They were in I formation. Simple.​



Now, does anyone want to claim that we weren't playing quarters coverage on Lloyd's touchdown catch? Anyone? Anyone?

OK, then. Let's take a look at the play, a second-and-19 from the 49ers' 11 with 7:56 left in the second quarter.


Here's the pre-snap look at the offense and defense ---v

28mjk05.jpg


In the photo above, you can see that we're in a 3-4 defense. Ware is on the defense's right edge, ready to rush against the left tackle. Al Singleton is out to the defense's left to bump the slot receiver. The two inside linebackers are about 4 yards off the line. Newman is at the bottom left against the Y receiver. Henry is at the top right on the X receiver, Lloyd. Roy Williams is the safety on the left, and Davis is the safety on the right.

In quarters coverage, Newman and Henry will play man-to-man on the outside receivers. The three linebackers in coverage will play zones underneath. Roy will key on the inside receiver on his side (the slot receiver in this case), and Davis will key on the inside receiver on his side (the running back). If the inside receiver runs a vertical route, the safety plays man-to-man on that receiver. If not, as Parcells explained, he doubles the outside receiver.

Here's what it looked like immediately after the snap ---v

9unkax.jpg


In the photo above, you can see the play-action fake that Parcells was talking about. The running back is not coming out of the backfield to run a vertical route. That immediately shifts Davis from his primary responsibility (the inside receiver running a vertical route) to his secondary responsibility (doubling the outside receiver). Parcells says Davis should know this "a tenth of a second" after the snap, but Davis doesn't do that, as you'll see from the next two photos.

Still looking at the photo above, you can see Singleton bumping the slot receiver and Newman, Henry and Roy in position to cover their respective primary responsibilities.

Here's the next photo ---v

o0tcic.jpg


In the photo above, you can see Singleton releasing the slot receiver to Roy and the three linebackers staying in the short zones. Newman and Henry are playing man-to-man. Roy is about to break on the slot receiver. Davis is -- as Parcells put it -- taking up his space, rather than doubling the outside receiver.

The next photo ---v

2i6f2ap.jpg


In the photo above, you can see the three linebackers still playing the short zones, Newman and Henry playing man-to-man, Roy breaking on the slot receiver's post route and Davis still taking up his space, looking into the backfield as Lloyd races past him.

The next photo, just after the ball is thrown ---v

2hzh2zd.jpg


Again, in the photo above, you can see the three linebackers playing the short zones, Newman and Henry man-to-man outside, Roy covering the post from his inside receiver and Davis just now breaking back toward Lloyd.

And the catch ---v

ku80w.jpg


Davis is already 5 yards behind Lloyd because he didn't double him immediately after he realized he had no vertical threat from the inside receiver.

Are there any questions NOW about quarters coverage and EXACTLY what the safety's responsibility is in that coverage?
 
Very nice breakdown Adam. :bow: Can you do the same thing for the Washington game in question? I'd like to see where the actual misplay was. Purely for educational reasons. :D
 
AdamJT13;2101561 said:
Here's the link to Parcells' press conference in which he describes how we played quarters coverage. This was one week after the Moss touchdowns, and he was talking about an 89-yard TD pass to Brandon Lloyd in our game against the 49ers.

Link: http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/cowboys/demand/parcells_092605.rm

Starting at 11:30 of the press conference --

Reporter: It seemed like you were talking to Davis on that long play to Lloyd. You know, y'all had an extended discussion over there.​


Parcells: Yeah, I sure did.​


Reporter: Did he do something wrong on that play? Because it looked like he didn't think he did.​


Parcells: Well, I know, he didn't think he did, but he found out different.​


Reporter: What did he do wrong?​


Parcells: Well, if you really want the actual explanation, we were in a quarters coverage, OK, and uh, there was no vertical threat on his side. It was a play-action pass away from him, so he basically was free of any responsibility. Well, the only responsibility, the only receiver left on his side was the guy that caught the ball. So why wouldn't you turn, with no other threat, wouldn't you turn that way to help? That's what you should do, and he didn't do it. So he's just back in there doing nothing. OK?​


Reporter: Taking up space.​


Parcells: Well, he's taking up his space, OK, when he should be realizing that he wasn't threatened. OK, now, 'where can I help?' You're certainly not going to help the other corner. He's way over there, two positions over. So. that's part of those growing pains I'm telling you about. That's part of the growing pain, right there. Not enough experience.​


Reporter: Isn't that what he did, though? Didn't he peek inside on the slot receiver?​


Parcells: Well, yeah, he might have, but a tenth of a second after the ball was snapped, he should have looked for the X (receiver). A tenth of a second. Because both backs ... had no vertical threat. It was just a split end on his side. They were in I formation. Simple.​


<snipped>
Are there any questions NOW about quarters coverage and EXACTLY what the safety's responsibility is in that coverage?

Dead_troll_Base.jpg

DEAD TROLL
 
why are some of you disputing what this guys says about someones speed or someones ability.....have we gotten a little full of ourselves? Here is an opportunity for us to get it from someone who is on the field and on the inside...if he says making one on one tackles in the open field is not an easy thing to do...then we should take him at his word and appreciate Roy a little more...if he says Alan Ball can flat out fly...then we should accept that....we are fans....I know a lot of us think we know more than the media....and often it seems like we do....but when we start acting like we know more than players...we have over stepped our bounds.
 
TheCount;2101099 said:
Why, because someone put the numbers 4.4 next to his name? Now he's good player?
Dude, you are so contentious just for the sake of it... :cool:

Yes, it makes a difference if a guy previously viewed as an average athlete has much better speed than anyone expected. And what a teammate sees on the field every day in terms of playing speed means much more than some 40 time published by a Kiper wannabe living in his mom's basement.
 
One thing's for sure: either #38/31 will play close to his pay this year or not. If not, a decision will probably be made around this time next year. It probably won't stop the debate, but at least we'll get some closure.
 
TheCount;2101492 said:
I hope you're being sarcastic, cause at this point all Roy Williams threads are absolute torture.

Oh no, I was quite serious, actually!

dr_evil.jpg
 
AdamJT13;2101561 said:
Are there any questions NOW about quarters coverage and EXACTLY what the safety's responsibility is in that coverage?

Say they did a play-action against a cover-2 in the same offensive formation... I would think doubling the outside receiver would be the safeties responsibility as well if he has no threat from a vertical receiver from the inside...

Hey, I got nobody to cover other than the receiver the corner on my side is playing man on.. Should I just sit there, or help him out, considering nobody is going to be in my area other than the receiver?

Well, yeah, he might have, but a tenth of a second after the ball was snapped, he should have looked for the X (receiver). A tenth of a second. Because both backs ... had no vertical threat. It was just a split end on his side. They were in I formation. Simple.

Can you post what was said in respect to the (...). I can't play the clip at work, so I'm just curious, was Bill actually saying that Keith Davis primary responsibility, in deep coverage, was to pay attention to a RB, thinking he's going to run a 20+ yard vertical route or was he simply saying that Keith should recognized the formation immediately and doubled the outside receiver...

In quarters coverage, the safety is suppose to read the RB, and provide support if he runs... If he does not, then he is suppose to cover his zone. Bill stated at first that Keith should have recognized play-action and pursued the outside receiver, because the play-action went away from him. There was no reason he should have sat in his spot. The reporter then asked Parcells about the possibility that Keith could have been looking at the slot-receiver on the other side. Parcells then admits in this above quote that it was a possibility, but states at most that should have taken a tenth of the second, and he should have then shot to the "X" receiver.

How does this explain quarter-coverage? The responsbilities in cover-2 would be the same in thsi particular situation.

If anything, this is just proof that we should be glad Keith Davis is gone...
 
starfrombirth;2101600 said:
Very nice breakdown Adam. :bow: Can you do the same thing for the Washington game in question? I'd like to see where the actual misplay was.

I agree. That was very informative Adam. I enjoyed looking at it. I don't know how long that took you, but I'd love to see the same thing done on the Moss play in question.

I appreciate it, Adam.
 
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