Does adding Carimi to the mix, justify a move down?

[CCBoy]

If so, then the Cowboys could add a quality player for the interior offensive line, secondary, or interior of the defensive box area...think?




Cowboys Draft Prospects: Gabe Carimi
by rabblerousr



http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011...cowboys-draft-prospects-gabe-carimi#storyjump




ur last, loving look at the offensive players in whom the Cowboys have expressed interest sets Wisconsin's big (6-7, 314) left tackle Gabe Carimi in our sights. Carimi comes highly decorated; he was the 2010 Outland Trophy winner (nation's best offensive lineman) and was named the Bog 10 offensive lineman of the year. In addition, he was a unanimous first-team All American, a consensus first-team All-Big Ten selection (and an Academic All-Big Ten selection). Whew...that's a lot of trophies to put in the case. Over the last four years, Carimi registered a whopping 49 starts at left tackle, since taking over for the Browns first-rounder Joe Thomas. In 2010, Carimi helped pave the way for the nation's No. 5 scoring offense (41.5 points per contest).

And he did this while facing some of the best defensive linemen in the country. Including practice, he has battled four potential first-rounders (Ryan Kerrigan, Adrian Clayborn, Cameron Jordan and teammate J.J. Watt) this season, which gives scouts solid evidence that he can play--and play well--against NFL-caliber talent. Indeed, Carimi was quick to remind scouts of this during Combine interviews. He told the assembled masses, "I have a better resume of going against better talent than anyone else, so that makes me more ready," adding that he is "physically stronger and have more career starts and better knowledge of the game than any other tackle out there. That's why I'm the No. 1 tackle out there." No shrinking violet, that Carimi. Video of his combine workout can be found here.

Indeed, Carimi has the game to back up his claim. At the Senior Bowl, he had a terrific week of practice--playing at both tackle spots as well as guard--until he rolled an ankle. Nonetheless, his performance solidified his status as a first-rounder. During the week of practice, Carimi looked to be the best offensive tackle at Mobile--indeed, that's when he really came onto my radar...

 

[AbeBeta]

if we move down to 17 or so, Pouncey is the guy - I like Carimi. But first round I want the best rated prospect at his position, not a guy who is really good but has inflated value due to position.

that's just me - I think Pouncey is a stone cold lock as a 10 year starter

 

[tm1119]

if we move down to 17 or so, Pouncey is the guy - I like Carimi. But first round I want the best rated prospect at his position, not a guy who is really good but has inflated value due to position.

that's just me - I think Pouncey is a stone cold lock as a 10 year starter

Thats a pretty ridiculous claim. Let him start 1 game before you claim hes going to be a starter for 10 straight years.

But to answer the original question, yes. Both Camiri and Castonzo may not have as high of a ceiling as Smith, but they are both just as good, if not better, at the moment. So if we could trade down, get a 2nd round pick, and still get 1 of those 2 I would probably do it. Camiri+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana is a lot better for our line now and in the future than just Smith.

 

[dbair1967]

if we move down to 17 or so, Pouncey is the guy - I like Carimi. But first round I want the best rated prospect at his position, not a guy who is really good but has inflated value due to position.

That isnt a reason to take someone that early. Just because he's the best at a position doesnt mean he warrants a 1st rd pick. He might be the best interior OL, but nowhere near the 17th best player in the draft.

And for the record, I'm not even convinced he's the best interior OL in the draft.

 

[dbair1967]

Thats a pretty ridiculous claim. Let him start 1 game before you claim hes going to be a starter for 10 straight years.

But to answer the original question, yes. Both Camiri and Castonzo may not have as high of a ceiling as Smith, but they are both just as good, if not better, at the moment. So if we could trade down, get a 2nd round pick, and still get 1 of those 2 I would probably do it. Camiri+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana is a lot better for our line now and in the future than just Smith.

It could be, but not if Carimi and Wisniewski are Jacob Rogers and Clay Shiver, and Tyron Smith turned into a probowl calibar player.

Quantity doesnt always trump quality. Alot of times it bites you in the butt too.

 

[laythewood28]

Thats a pretty ridiculous claim. Let him start 1 game before you claim hes going to be a starter for 10 straight years.

But to answer the original question, yes. Both Camiri and Castonzo may not have as high of a ceiling as Smith, but they are both just as good, if not better, at the moment. So if we could trade down, get a 2nd round pick, and still get 1 of those 2 I would probably do it. Camiri+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana is a lot better for our line now and in the future than just Smith.

Why can't we get Smith+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana? Does getting Smith already take away from the equation of getting any of the other guys?

 

[CCBoy]

Why can't we get Smith+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana? Does getting Smith already take away from the equation of getting any of the other guys?

Not upon principal at onset...there are realistic moves for team evaluated talents. There is a natural tendency to equalize all positional inequalities to abstract fullness. But it usually boils down to small and stragegic moves that best mirrors team needs. This again reverts to BPA...in applications, unless a home run is wished from from potential dominant evaluations.

Ask even Bill Parcells what gut wishing on a first round pick at quarterback does when he washes out. Jerry has scars here as well.

This is one time, that I want Jason Garrett's voice to be heard in the draft room. He wants to protect his quarterback, the most important piece on a team. Not alone, but with a team.

 

[tm1119]

Why can't we get Smith+Cannon/Wisniewski/Ijalana? Does getting Smith already take away from the equation of getting any of the other guys?

Because our defense was pretty bad last year....Theres no way we can warrant taking O-lineman in the 1st and 2nd with such glaring holes in our defense.

"It could be, but not if Carimi and Wisniewski are Jacob Rogers and Clay Shiver, and Tyron Smith turned into a probowl calibar player.

Quantity doesnt always trump quality. Alot of times it bites you in the butt too."

^

This is very true, but what if Smith is a bust? That also bites you in the butt. People here are just a little too confident in Smith, hes far from a lock to be a pro bowl LT like a lot here seem to think. He has good potential because of his age and size and athletic combo, but Camiri and Castonzo both were much more productive in college and are much more polished. I like both of their abilities to play RT well in the NFL.

 

[laythewood28]

Because our defense was pretty bad last year....Theres no way we can warrant taking O-lineman in the 1st and 2nd with such glaring holes in our defense.

"It could be, but not if Carimi and Wisniewski are Jacob Rogers and Clay Shiver, and Tyron Smith turned into a probowl calibar player.

Quantity doesnt always trump quality. Alot of times it bites you in the butt too."

^

This is very true, but what if Smith is a bust? That also bites you in the butt. People here are just a little too confident in Smith, hes far from a lock to be a pro bowl LT like a lot here seem to think. He has good potential because of his age and size and athletic combo, but Camiri and Castonzo both were much more productive in college and are much more polished. I like both of their abilities to play RT well in the NFL.

I misread your post, didn't see the additional second.

 

[ABQcowboyJR]

Carimi is a wonderful pick for us. He shows all the ability to be a long time RT for us. If we can get wisneiwski too I think we have done a ton to improve our OL. Wisneiwski looks to be able to play center in a few years after bulking up a little. Trading back gives us the opportunity to take Carimi wisneiwski and a defensive player in the top of the second. One of the corners or maybe someone like Acho.

I do have to agree that people are putting a little bit too much confidence in Smith. Yes he looks to have all the physical tools to be a good LT. But, he didn't play LT much for USC. He does not have the track record of other OL guys in this draft. I just don't see the value of Smith honestly. He could turn out to be a good OT, but i do not believe he is a good pick at 9.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Quantity doesnt always trump quality.

Case in point look at 2009.

 

[burmafrd]

The defense stank because mostly lousy play by a few key people for one reason or another; all of whom had played better before EXCEPT one. Ball. FS is one area that the draft of a first rd pick does nothing to help since there aint any. It is questionable that there are any worth a high second rd pick. Meanwhile the other GLARING hole is RT. And there is a player that not only played RT very well in college but has the talent to play LT as well. Who has the most potential of any tackle in the draft. So to me the first rd pick is a no brainer. Now after that; it is interesting. I think we can get a good DE in FA; but we could also get one in the second. But even if we wait until the third we can get a good one.

 

[kevinhickey]

I say yes to trading down. Jerry is going to sign Doug Free. Free will be our LT. Nobody expects a run on the OT's until after the first 10 selections; so why pick Smith at #9 to play RT. Besides, I think there will be a run on the QB's; pushing the Offensive Linemen down. We still could get Smith at anyway after moving down. Pick up the extra selection and draft the best player available. As for the Free Safety position, this may have to be addressed in free agency when the CBA mess gets resolved.

 

[BAT]

Carimi is the only tackle I would want in the first round, but not at #9. Carimi with a trade down makes much more sense.

 

[CATCH17]

I love Carimi's attitude.

Not only is he the best Tackle in this draft as of today he is sure to let everyone know about it too.

Who ever gets him is going to be happy with their selection.

 

[nathanlt]

Yes, Carimi does support moving down.

There are multiple reasons for this. Getting a second chance in the 2nd round at a starter is absolutely worth it.

Getting a player who is 95% of the talent that Tyron Smith is, is worth it.

Getting an RT as opposed to another LT (Free has already demonstrated his worth) is worth it.

Getting a chance to trade that 2nd round pick for a 1st next year is completely worth it.

If Dallas traded down twice, and got, say Boling as an RT, and Cannon, and a quality DE, those three are much better than Tyron Smith alone. Plus, you've spread out your injury amongst 6 knees, rather than 2.

Carpet Bombing the second round is a better long term plan for the quality of this team.

 

[28 Joker]

The team that drafts Carimi, better hope they play in a heavy run offense. This guy is way over rated, imo. He is nothing more than a mauler. Space will not be his friend in the NFL, run or pass. He's a push/shove blocker who will be exposed by NFL speed off the edge at RT. I think he could be a bust unless he plays in a run heavy scheme. He may have to bulk back up and move to guard, because his foot quickness is going to be a major weakness for him in the NFL, off the edge.

In the NFL, teams are not going to just rush him down the middle. Once they expose his suspect foot quickness on the edge, they will set him up and wear him out, inside, middle, and outside.

I wouldn't draft this guy in the first round, but someone will. Good luck to them.

Carimi is a bad fit for Felix Jones and Tony Romo and Dallas' passing attack.

 

[BIGDen]

Case in point look at 2009.

I keep hearing people use this example, but that was quantity in low rounds. We had no 1st or 3rd and we traded out of the second for peanuts. That was just stupid. Quantity in the 1st few rounds is certainly different. No picks are guaranteed to pan out and that includes Peterson, but quantity in the 1st few rounds gives a team a better shot at succeeding than putting all of their eggs in one or 2 baskets. Those Jimmy Johnson drafts had their share of blown picks, but they were offset but other picks. We shouldn't underestimate the importance of multiple picks. Look at our 2005 draft: two 1sts, a 2nd, and two 4ths (Ware, Spears, Burnett, Barber and Canty). Throw in Ratliff in the 7th and that's quite a draft. The point is that multiple picks in the 1st few rounds can work out quite well too.

In this draft I like Tyron Smith. But if we feel like Carimi or Costanza are starting caliber, and not much different than Smith, then a trade down is probably smart with the right offer. Gaining a 2nd or 3rd will allow us to move into the late first for another targeted player and still likely have a 3rd where there should be some quality left. To me, two 1st rounders in this draft will likely get us 2 immediate starter. Perhaps Watt and Carimi. I'm ok with staying for Smith, but I'm absolutely against giving away picks for Peterson. We have a top 10 pick and we are not a CB away. The only reason I would move up from 9 is if we needed a QB and one was sliding. Our best situation would probably be if a QB slid and Minny wanted to jump ahead of Washington. We could slide down a few spots and probably still get Smith. Then we would have the ammo to move around for an additional 1st or 2nd as well as having gotten "our guy".