Does Heisman = HoF?

[THUMPER]

I was poking around on the Pro Football Hall of Fame site and ran across a list that was truly startling: Heisman Trophy winners in the HOF

There are only 8 Heisman Trophy winners who are in the HoF (out of 70+ winners) and only one, Roger Staubach, was other than a RB.

Roger Staubach QB: HT-1963, HoF-1985
O.J. Simpson RB: HT-1968, HoF-1985
Doak Walker RB: HT-1948, HoF-1986
Paul Hornung RB: HT-1956, HoF-1986 (was a QB in college)
Earl Campbell RB: HT-1977, HoF-1991
Tony Dorsett RB: HT-1976, HoF-1994
Marcus Allen RB: HT-1981, HoF-2003
Barry Sanders RB: HT-1988, HoF-2004

There have been 26 QBs that have won the Heisman but only 1 has gone on the make the HoF as a QB in the NFL. That's pretty pitiful when you think about it.

Some of the more recent QBs might have a shot: Carson Palmer has a decent chance at making it if he continues to play the way he has. Matt Leinart could make it but he has a long ways to go yet obviously. Same for Troy Smith.

Jim Plunkett was a good QB but not HoF worthy. Flutie and Testeverde had talent but could never put it all together long enough to string a number of good seasons together.

Johnny Lujack, the 1947 winner, had a couple of pro-bowl seasons in the early 50s but got hurt and never played again.

The rest sucked! Some never even played in the NFL, Charlie Ward wasn't even drafted but had a good career in the NBA.

RBs, on the other hand, have had pretty decent success in the NFL. Besides those who are in the HoF there were: John David Crow, Billy Cannon (played TE a lot in the pros), Mike Garrett, Billy Sims, Charles White, George Rogers, Herschel Walker, Mike Rozier (I really thought he would be a stud), Bo Jackson, Eddie George, Ricky Williams, & Reggie Bush.

What do you think the problem is? Are the Heisman voters simply too enamored with numbers or is the college game just that much different than the NFL?

The recent QBs from USC and OSU come out of pro-style offenses and have looked better transitioning to the NFL game.

Thoughts?

 

[Concord]

HOF'er no doubt!

 

[dargonking999]

Please First he's gonna need to figure out how to see his WR down the field. Before he can think about the HOF. Not to mention, he has to crack #2 on the depth chart

Troy Smith == Failure
Ted Ginn == Failure

 

[burmafrd]

Walker wil get in. So will Bo Jackson some day I think. BIlly Sims was on his way to a HOF when he got injured. Tim Brown will get in probably.
Some of the older winners are at a big disadvantage now. But it is true that a lot of Heisman winners sucked in the pros- ESPECIALLY QBs. I could argue that if you leave QBs out its not so bad.

 

[DanTanna]

Good thread.

Heisman = MVP of the best team in NCAA typically

Has no way, shape or form, anything to do with college success. Look at Gino Toretta, Charlie Ward and Troy Smith. Heisman winners that had/have no shot to even play in the NFL let alone make the HOF.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think there are a couple of reasons for this. One, big time college programs have huge PR departments that create Heisman Winners. Who's the last small school winner? Maybe Tye Detmir from BYU? You just don't see that a lot. Because of this, you probably don't get the most talented player winning the Heisman most times. Players from big time programs also play with the best talent in the country. They're used to being much better then the compatition in most cases. When a QB comes to the NFL highly rated, he's typically going to go to a bad team. That means that he's not only going to be surrounded by sub par talent, if you will, but he's also going to have to deal with much more pressure week to week. I don't know if the mental toughness is there like it is with guys who are talented but played in less talented programs. Lastly, regional voting plays a huge role in who wins the Heisman. For example, should Reggie Bush have won the Heisman over Vince Young? Some may say yes but I think the National Championship game might say something else. It's just a different game in the Pros.

 

[Twyst]

ricky williams - failure

 

[THUMPER]

I think there are a couple of reasons for this. One, big time college programs have huge PR departments that create Heisman Winners. Who's the last small school winner? Maybe Tye Detmir from BYU? You just don't see that a lot. Because of this, you probably don't get the most talented QB winning the Heisman most times. QBs from big time programs also play with the best talent in the country. They're used to being much better then the compatition in most cases. When a QB comes to the NFL highly rated, he's typically going to go to a bad team. That means that he's not only going to be surrounded by sub par talent, if you will, but he's also going to have to deal with much more pressure week to week. I don't know if the mental toughness is there like it is with guys who are talented but played in less talented programs. Lastly, regional voting plays a huge role in who wins the Heisman. For example, should Reggie Bush have won the Heisman over Vince Young? Some may say yes but I think the National Championship game might say something else. It's just a different game in the Pros.

Good points ABQ. With a few exceptions, mostly early on, they all came from big time college programs. Of the colleges with the most winners, USC, Notre Dame, & Ohio State, USC has produced the best NFL players with Mike Garrett, O.J. Simpson, Charles White, Marcus Allen, Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart, & Reggie Bush.

The Florida schools: Florida, Florida State, & Miami have completely sucked: Steve Spurrier UF, Danny Wuerffel UF, Charlie Ward FSU, Chris Weinke FSU, Vinny Testaverde Mia, & Gino Torretta Mia. Vinny is the only decent winner from the state.

Texas wasn't too bad with Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams.

 

[THUMPER]

ricky williams - failure

When he has played he has been pretty good but 'that boy done smoked hisself ********'.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

When he has played he has been pretty good but 'that boy done smoked hisself ********'.

This should be enshrined on every College Football locker room in the country.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I love Troy Smith as a Ravens' fan but I would say lets wait until he gets on the field.

Eddie George deserves to go to the HOF; if those idiots in the Tennesse FA had given Eddie even a SERVICABLE backup, he would have had 2,000 + more yards and many more TD's; they simply wore him down... he would get my vote. Heck, I don't even like the guy... When he gets into the HOF, there will be a looping video clip of Eddie George Picking up Ray Lewis and Throwing him down with one hand.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Staubach was truly a once-in-a-lifetime player.

Heisman Tophy winner as a Junior at the Naval Academy, (that, in itself, is a lifetime achievement), HOF QB, SB MVP, and 2 SB Rings.

Not another QB in history has accomplished all of that, (or probably ever will), yet Staubach somehow seems to only get a casual mention when the media discusses the greatest QBs of all-time.

 

[AbeBeta]

A big part of this is that to win the Heisman, you generally have to perform well for several years in college. That means Heisman guys might have a bit more mileage on them - since about half the Heismans go to RBs, that mileage starts to pile up. It is damn tough to be a great RB in the pros for long enough to be in the Hall. Having had a ton of college carries doesn't help matters.

As for the QB, college and pro offenses often differ. Some of the Heisman winners at QB just don't project to good pro qbs. Troy Smith? 5th rounder. Jason White. Not drafted. Eric Crouch? Drafted 3rd round as a WR. Weinke and Wuerffel, 4th rounders. Toretta and Detmer 7th and 6th. Seems like at least half the QBs don't even have a shot at being NFL starters.

 

[percyhoward]

Roger Staubach QB: HT-1963, HoF-1985
O.J. Simpson RB: HT-1968, HoF-1985
Doak Walker RB: HT-1948, HoF-1986
Paul Hornung RB: HT-1956, HoF-1986 (was a QB in college)
Earl Campbell RB: HT-1977, HoF-1991
Tony Dorsett RB: HT-1976, HoF-1994
Marcus Allen RB: HT-1981, HoF-2003
Barry Sanders RB: HT-1988, HoF-2004

If you had told me there were as many undrafted QB's in the Hall of Fame as Heisman-winning QB's, I sure wouldn't have believed it.

 

[Tricericon]

Staubach was truly a once-in-a-lifetime player.

Heisman Tophy winner as a Junior at the Naval Academy, (that, in itself, is a lifetime achievement), HOF QB, SB MVP, and 2 SB Rings.

Not another QB in history has accomplished all of that, (or probably ever will), yet Staubach somehow seems to only get a casual mention when the media discusses the greatest QBs of all-time.

Actually, he usually doesn't even get that casual mention.

 

[big dog cowboy]

If you had told me there were as many undrafted QB's in the Hall of Fame as Heisman-winning QB's, I sure wouldn't have believed it.

I didn't know that either. That is really pretty amazing.

 

[Wolfpack]

Actually, he usually doesn't even get that casual mention.

Career was a little short thus not the killer stats. Showed up on game day however

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What do you think the problem is? Are the Heisman voters simply too enamored with numbers or is the college game just that much different than the NFL?

The recent QBs from USC and OSU come out of pro-style offenses and have looked better transitioning to the NFL game.

Thoughts?

I think it's because colleges run their own systems that don't necessarily translate well to the NFL

and QBs may not like to hear this, but a good system is everything

 

[rynochop]

Career was a little short thus not the killer stats. Showed up on game day however

If there's two minutes left with no timeouts and down by four....there's no other QB i'd rather have on my team than Roger. He was pure money.

 

[THUMPER]

I have Staubach ranked 3rd in my list behind Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas.