does this defense miss dat nguyen?

[burmafrd]

You look at all the top Ds in the NFL and every one of them has a real leader.
We need someone like Dat or Junior Seau or Urlacher. Unfortunately I do not think any of them are available.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think you hit on something I was thinking about this morning. We need a QB for the defense. On the good to great defenses the Middle Linebacker was the man. Think about these defenses and who played in the MLB role or ILB role. I'm sure I'm gonna miss a bunch too. These are what I see as past good to great defenses. No paticular order.

Ray Lewis-Ravens
Mike Singletary-Bears
Brian Urlacher-Bears
Derrick Brooks-Tampa Bay
Brushci-Pats
Porter-Steelers
Zack Thomas-Dolphins
Ken Norton Jr- The Dallas Cowboys

Actually, Brooks was an OLB but your point is relivant. You need one guy who can make it happen. On the great Giants teams of the 80s, that guy was Harry Carson. For the great Miami teams of the 70s, that player was Nick Buoniconti. For the great Steeler teams of the 70s, it was Jack Lambert. For the great San Francisco teams of the 80s, it was Hacksaw Reynolds. For the great Green Bay teams of the 60s, it was Ray Nitschke. For the great Philly teams of the late 80s it was Byron Evans. For the Great Cowboy teams of the early 70s and mid 70s, it was Lee Roy Jordan and Bob Breunig.

You need those kinds of guys to be a great defense.

 

[TtownCowboy]

Actually, Brooks was an OLB but your point is relivant. You need one guy who can make it happen. On the great Giants teams of the 80s, that guy was Harry Carson. For the great Miami teams of the 70s, that player was Nick Buoniconti. For the great Steeler teams of the 70s, it was Jack Lambert. For the great San Francisco teams of the 80s, it was Hacksaw Reynolds. For the great Green Bay teams of the 60s, it was Ray Nitschke. For the great Philly teams of the late 80s it was Byron Evans. For the Great Cowboy teams of the early 70s and mid 70s, it was Lee Roy Jordan and Bob Breunig.

You need those kinds of guys to be a great defense.

Seems our guys are either not good enough or the ones who are don't have the mental make up to be a leader. Seems Ware is showing he's got the physical and mental tools to be an all around stud. He just doesn't have the it to be leader. We seem to be a little too "nice" on defense.

 

[Sasquatch]

As a player - marginally. As a leader. Absolutely.

Ditto. But, honestly, if the performance of a defense is totally contingent on an undersized linebacker whose reputation among fans far exceeds his play on the field, we are in trouble regardless. Greg Ellis and Dat were fine players but to suggest that their absence alone is responsible for the woeful performance of our defense is wishful thinking. We're just not very good right now either because our talent level is not as good as advertised or because the talent is not placed in a position to succeed.

 

[alancdc]

As a player - marginally. As a leader. Absolutely.

I absolutely agree on the leader part, but I do think that his combination of speed and instincts is a big part of what we don't get with James. He is just way tooooooooo sloooooooow.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Seems our guys are either not good enough or the ones who are don't have the mental make up to be a leader. Seems Ware is showing he's got the physical and mental tools to be an all around stud. He just doesn't have the it to be leader. We seem to be a little too "nice" on defense.

I think it's still too early to tell. I honestly believe that Carpenter could be a great ILB in the 34. Problem is that he may never get the chance. He may end up being on the outside forever. To me, he's an ILB all the way but hey, I'm a 43 guy. What the heck do I know?

 

[Draegerman]

I miss Dat's heart but more importantly, I miss George Teague's attitude. Do you honestly think that good ol' George would have let that Lion's player get away with bashing our star last Sunday?

I don't.

 

[dragon_mikal]

That's an average of 3.3 years of experience. That's not a lot considering were only in our second year with the 34. Not only are they still learning, they haven't matured physically as yet. They haven't been through the wars and come out a tempered product as yet. Our defense will get better IMO. It's just a process that we must go through in order to become championship quality IMO. It takes time.

They won't be getting better with Zimmy coaching them.

And I don't remember experience being a factor under Jimmy. He just knew how to coach.

I have no doubt that the defense will get better. Once Jerry wises up and gets rid of the dead weight on the coaching staff.

 

[burmafrd]

Leadership is something that is hard to find but once you have it you know it. Dat was a leader- and has been pointed out in this thread he was a smart guy as well; there is NO way we have the kind of blown coverages by LBs with him playing. Considering how much BP changed from the time he got here untill Dat retired that really says a lot. BP wanted Dat gone since he was too short in BPs mind to play LB. But BP saw pretty early on that Dat was the kind of guy he needed.

 

[superpunk]

I miss Dat's heart but more importantly, I miss George Teague's attitude. Do you honestly think that good ol' George would have let that Lion's player get away with bashing our star last Sunday?

I don't.

It would have been an equally empty gesture in both scenarios. The team wearing the star disrespected it far more than any gestures toward it from the opposition.

 

[alancdc]

Leadership is something that is hard to find but once you have it you know it. Dat was a leader- and has been pointed out in this thread he was a smart guy as well; there is NO way we have the kind of blown coverages by LBs with him playing. Considering how much BP changed from the time he got here untill Dat retired that really says a lot. BP wanted Dat gone since he was too short in BPs mind to play LB. But BP saw pretty early on that Dat was the kind of guy he needed.

AGREE. I remember him just exploding through the line to drill the RB. The guy had instincts, and was explosive. We really don't have an explosive type on the field except WARE, IMO!

 

[burmafrd]

Lee Roy Jordan, Bob Breunig, Eugene Lockhart, Norton, were our leaders in the LB corps from the 60's to the 90s. From 63 untill Lockhart retired - the three of them had the MLB position and the leadership position covered for almost 30 years. After Norton left, it was more Haley for the D. We did not really have a LB leader untill Dat. On the line it was Lilly, Manster, then Haley. Our D really missed the leadership after Haley left. Ferguson seems to be a leader on the Line; but we have no one stepping up for the LBs, and the same for the secondary. I thought Glenn was going to be the secondary guy for a while, but that does not seem to have happened. newman is trying, but I do not think he has the personality to do it. Roy certainly doesnt; henry doesnt; and there is no one else.

 

[cowboyed]

I don't understand the implication here. Was Godfrey considered to be a stupid player? I certainly remember him being a very good LB for us.

From my recollection Godfrey was a great player at MLB than an offensive play alerter. The MLB position demands you micro coordinate. Dat made the plays, coordinated and alerted the backs. Bradie James appears to have two minds out on the field, one is lost and the other is looking for it.

 

[burmafrd]

if bradie had another brain it would be lonesome.

 

[burmafrd]

if brains were gunpowder bradie would not have enough to blow his nose.

 

[alancdc]

if brains were gunpowder bradie would not have enough to blow his nose.

Come on go for the hat trick!

 

[Zman5]

Dat was like having another coach on the field. What he lacked physically, he more than made up for it with heart and brain.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They won't be getting better with Zimmy coaching them.

And I don't remember experience being a factor under Jimmy. He just knew how to coach.

I have no doubt that the defense will get better. Once Jerry wises up and gets rid of the dead weight on the coaching staff.

Time often fades the memory. In 1992, our front 7 looked like this.

Casillas 7 years.
Edwards 2 years.
Haley 7 years.
Hennings 1 year.
Jeffcoat 10 years.
Jimmie Jones 3 years.
Robert Jones 1 year.
Lett 2 years.
Maryland 2 years.
Myles 2 years.
Noonan 6 years.
Nortan 5 years.
Tolbert 4 years.
Smith 4 years.
Pruitt 5 years.


The average of this group was just over 4 years. If you look at these guys in comparison to the group we have now, I think you see a good mix of youth and experience on the team. You've only got 1 guy with 10 years on him. You also have better over all talent on the bench and all these guys are playing in the same scheme and playing together longer. You really can't compare the two IMO. Just a different time in football.

 

[Draegerman]

It would have been an equally empty gesture in both scenarios. The team wearing the star disrespected it far more than any gestures toward it from the opposition.

Perhaps but the mere fact that they did absolutely nothing about it (i.e. at least use it as motivational tool to make a final defensive stand for the rest of the game) seems to reflect the lack of heart/passion they need in order to be successful. The best way to describe this defense in one word for their overall regular season performance thus far would be apathetic at best.

Here's hoping that they can somehow find a pulse, a heartbeat, anything when they take the field against Seattle on Saturday.

 

[cowboyed]

Come on go for the hat trick!

Ok, I'll go for it. If poop was electricity Parcells would be a living powerhouse.