Donald and Jernigan Reminds Me of 1997 Draft with Gonzalez and LaFleur

[SilverStarCowboy]

Donald is a freak athlete but lets remember that 40 times are very over rated for the DL. He is still the top choice for the 4/3 and this squad but I wouldn't mind drafting who ever doesn't get selected. If it falls the wrong way and he slides to you take WR Mike Evans just because he is still there. Can't complain about selecting the Best Player Available.

 

[burmafrd]

from what I remember KC knew we wanted Gonzales and would be willing to trade up some to get him; so they moved up to where they felt we would not go and they were right.

 

[AsthmaField]

Donald is a freak athlete but lets remember that 40 times are very over rated for the DL. He is still the top choice for the 4/3 and this squad but I wouldn't mind drafting who ever doesn't get selected. If it falls the wrong way and he slides to you take WR Mike Evans just because he is still there. Can't complain about selecting the Best Player Available.

Well, for what it's worth... I felt this way before the combine. Before the Senior Bowl, for that matter.

I love Donald for what he has done on the football field... always my biggest criteria. However, his ridiculous senior bowl and combine back up what he showed on the field.

A very clean prospect, IOW.

 

[AsthmaField]

from what I remember KC knew we wanted Gonzales and would be willing to trade up some to get him; so they moved up to where they felt we would not go and they were right.

Yes, but what if we had traded enough to get up there? That is really what I'm saying. Had we done what everyone at the time would have said wasn't prudent... we would have had a hall of fame TE to replace Novacek with. It would have been no doubt worth it to beat KC to the punch. We had a forgettable draft overall and Gonzalez went on to one of the best careers by a TE in league history... if not the best.

 

[joseephuss]

Yes, but what if we had traded enough to get up there? That is really what I'm saying. Had we done what everyone at the time would have said wasn't prudent... we would have had a hall of fame TE to replace Novacek with. It would have been no doubt worth it to beat KC to the punch. We had a forgettable draft overall and Gonzalez went on to one of the best careers by a TE in league history... if not the best.

And the cost to move up to get Gonzalez would have left Dallas with few draft picks to put other quality players around him. We've seen that around Dallas before and it didn't work out well. While it would have given the Cowboys a HoF TE, that doesn't equal wins as Tony has one playoff victory on his resume, which he got with Atlanta. Dallas was a mess back then and would have been in an even bigger mess had they traded away the necessary picks it would have taken to out bid KC for Gonzalez's rights. It would not have been worth it at all.

 

[AsthmaField]

And the cost to move up to get Gonzalez would have left Dallas with few draft picks to put other quality players around him. We've seen that around Dallas before and it didn't work out well. While it would have given the Cowboys a HoF TE, that doesn't equal wins as Tony has one playoff victory on his resume, which he got with Atlanta. Dallas was a mess back then and would have been in an even bigger mess had they traded away the necessary picks it would have taken to out bid KC for Gonzalez's rights. It would not have been worth it at all.

Had Dallas traded away it entire 1997 draft to get Gonzalez, they would have lost:

David LaFleur
Dexter Coakley
Steve Scifres
Kenny Wheaton
Antonio Anderson
Macy Brooks
Nicky Sualua
Lee Vaughn
Omar Stoutmire

Which is to say, they wouldn't have lost much. Just an above average 4-3 OLB (which are a dime-a-dozen according to Jimmy Johnson), and a few below average back-ups.

This is hindsight, of course, but it does illustrate how useless some of those mid round picks can really be... as if the 2009 draft isn't proof enough.

One Hall of Fame TE would have been worth every one of those guys, and then some. Of course, it wouldn't have taken every one of our picks to move up from the 22nd pick to the 13th pick where KC took him. The cost would have been high, but not nearly that high.

That is my point. Trading a third to move up to take a guy that we really feel is going to be a difference maker isn't always a bad thing. A lot of the time, the people we get with those 3rd and 4ths don't ever amount to anything. Sometimes they do, but more often than not, they are just a guy.

Dallas traded their first and third round picks to New England in order to move up and get Dez Bryant. Nobody is talking about that third rounder now. Dez is loved by the Cowboys fan base because he clearly is the best guy on the field when they play. He has rare traits for the position, just like Gonzalez did and Donald does.

It was worth it.

Coming out of the 1997 draft with nothing more than Tony Gonzalez would have been a big win for the organization, perhaps getting a guy that is exactly what is needed at the 3-tech spot at the cost of another pick might not be such a horrible thing.

I'm not saying that I know what is best... I'm just saying that if the team thinks Donald is the ideal guy, then maybe a small trade up might not be a horrible thing to do. Maybe we give up a pick that would turn out to be a good player. Maybe we give up a pick that turns out to be a bust. We just don't know... But I think it is a risk worth taking, even though most here don't.

 

[joseephuss]

It probably would have taken more than the entire 1997 draft picks to move up enough to get to the 13th spot. Dallas had to overcome the 4 spots they were behind KC initially to make it worth it to the Oilers.

The Dez situation isn't comparable. Dallas only had to move up to the 24th spot to get him. That is much different than moving up to the 13th position.

Dallas was a weak team in 1997. There are reasons they went 6-10 and had to get a new coach. Trading an entire draft for one guy would not have changed that. It probably would have just demoralized the team more putting that much faith in one player who wasn't going to significantly change the direction of the franchise.

I like Gonzalez, but one player no matter how great would have made that big of an impact for Dallas at that time. They needed to add several good to great players. As you pointed out they weren't good at doing that and trading away entire drafts wouldn't help matters.

 

[BAT]

I can't speak as to the similarities between Donald/Jernigan and Gonzalez/LaFleur... mostly because the '98 draft was the first I remember following (I was 11 at the time).

I will say that agree or disagree, that was a pretty damn well-thought out OP. More of an article than a thread post. I appreciate your viewpoint AsthmaField.

Let me ask you this... What would you be willing to give up to ensure Donald in a trade up? You acknowledged you'd make a small move. Would you jump to STL's spot at #13 (leaping Chicago) if they demanded our #3?

I'd give up Claiborne & 16 for 13 & a 5th. I like Donald much more than Jernigan too. And for everyone pooh-poohing Dallas moving up enough to take Gonzales, they are either ignorant or have very short memories.

Jimmy traded up AND down ALL the time the 5 years he was in Dallas. 10 spots is not impossible as some are making it out to be.

 

[joseephuss]

I'd give up Claiborne & 16 for 13 & a 5th. I like Donald much more than Jernigan too. And for everyone pooh-poohing Dallas moving up enough to take Gonzales, they are either ignorant or have very short memories.

Jimmy traded up AND down ALL the time the 5 years he was in Dallas. 10 spots is not impossible as some are making it out to be.

Jimmy had assets to trade while he was in Dallas. He gave up Herschel Walker for a boat load of picks that gave Dallas options over a couple of years. He then was able to flip Steve Walsh into some picks. By 1997, Dallas didn't have much to trade other than draft picks. The ability to move up was more limited for Dallas at that time. The salary cap also had a little impact.

KC gave up quite a few draft picks to move from 18th to 13th. Dallas would have to give up more to move up from their 22nd spot. Sure it could have been done, but it wasn't worth it because the cost would have been so high.

 

[AsthmaField]

KC gave up quite a few draft picks to move from 18th to 13th. Dallas would have to give up more to move up from their 22nd spot. Sure it could have been done, but it wasn't worth it because the cost would have been so high.

That's the whole point I'm making... it would have been worth it to move up and take him. There was Dexter Coakley and a bunch of nobodies in that draft for Dallas.

It most assuredly would have been worth it.

 

[burmafrd]

That's the whole point I'm making... it would have been worth it to move up and take him. There was Dexter Coakley and a bunch of nobodies in that draft for Dallas.

It most assuredly would have been worth it.

hindsight is always 20-20. At that time NO ONE had a real suspicion that Gonzales would be as great as he was. We are not talking John Elway, etc who most people thought could very well be as great as he turned out to be. So NO ONE would have -outside of a crazy Ditka- traded away an ENTIRE draft for one player who was NOT A QB.

 

[AsthmaField]

hindsight is always 20-20. At that time NO ONE had a real suspicion that Gonzales would be as great as he was. We are not talking John Elway, etc who most people thought could very well be as great as he turned out to be. So NO ONE would have -outside of a crazy Ditka- traded away an ENTIRE draft for one player who was NOT A QB.

We wouldn't have had to trade away an entire draft. I'm just saying that even had we gone to that crazy extreme, it would have been worth it.

That wasn't some insane trade. Moving up about 10 spots in the first round happens.

 

[speedkilz88]

not even the same

keep on selling us your guy any way you can

I still would take Hagerman - Jerrigan over this guy any day of the week

Neither one of those guys are Marinelli protypical 3 techs. Jerrigan is a NT and Hageman doesn't fit, a tall DL that plays high and doesn't have the quick twitch.

 

[speedkilz88]

We wouldn't have had to trade away an entire draft. I'm just saying that even had we gone to that crazy extreme, it would have been worth it.

That wasn't some insane trade. Moving up about 10 spots in the first round happens.

But how were they to know that KC was trading up even higher? Face it KC knew the Cowboys were likely to move up in front of them and they traded up accordingly to make sure it didn't happen. The Cowboys can't be expected to win every time and under those circumstances it shouldn't be expected at all.

 

[BAT]

But how were they to know that KC was trading up even higher? Face it KC knew the Cowboys were likely to move up in front of them and they traded up accordingly to make sure it didn't happen. The Cowboys can't be expected to win every time and under those circumstances it shouldn't be expected at all.

That's why trader Jimmy was so fun to watch on draft day. Moving up 10 spots would have been child's play for him. And Cowboys were only few years removed their dynasty years, so still had valued assets. Jimmy would have traded Deion in a heartbeat, if necessary.

 

[burmafrd]

We wouldn't have had to trade away an entire draft. I'm just saying that even had we gone to that crazy extreme, it would have been worth it.

That wasn't some insane trade. Moving up about 10 spots in the first round happens.

you do not seem to get it. NO ONE thought Gonzales would be as great as he was so NO ONE would have gone any farther then KC did and guess what- at the time there were a LOT of Chiefs fans who thought they had used too much to get him.

 

[AsthmaField]

you do not seem to get it. NO ONE thought Gonzales would be as great as he was so NO ONE would have gone any farther then KC did and guess what- at the time there were a LOT of Chiefs fans who thought they had used too much to get him.

And that is my point. Sometimes it is worth it. A team will never have a guarantee on a player, as you have said. If there is a player you really like and you think he has rare traits that you think will make him a star player on your team, then there are times when you would be better off to go ahead and do it.

I thought at the time that there was a world of difference between Gonzalez and LaFleur and that I'd rather give up some extra picks and get the right one. I feel that way about Donald now. That's all I'm saying.

Moving up in the first round isn't that rare. It happens. Had we done it for Gonzalez we certainly wouldn't have regretted it.

 

[jnday]

And that is my point. Sometimes it is worth it. A team will never have a guarantee on a player, as you have said. If there is a player you really like and you think he has rare traits that you think will make him a star player on your team, then there are times when you would be better off to go ahead and do it.

I thought at the time that there was a world of difference between Gonzalez and LaFleur and that I'd rather give up some extra picks and get the right one. I feel that way about Donald now. That's all I'm saying.

Moving up in the first round isn't that rare. It happens. Had we done it for Gonzalez we certainly wouldn't have regretted it.

There was no way to know how Gonzalez would have turned out at that time. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[bodi]

Neither one of those guys are Marinelli protypical 3 techs. Jerrigan is a NT and Hageman doesn't fit, a tall DL that plays high and doesn't have the quick twitch.

no one is "Marinelli protypical 3 techs" I will say this again - what are this to dumb to learn his scheme ?

Jerrigan - A little undersized, but incredibly strong, Jernigan is an excellent run-stopper who has the ability to anchor against double teams. he can play 3-4 NT, 3-4 DE, and 4-3 DT.

He's gap disciplined and accepts his role well. Again, two things that stand out, strength and hands.

•May have been miscast in college, playing primarily between the guard and center or over center. Could have more NFL upside as a 3-tech





Ra'shede Hageman, - Alternately lining up over the nose or as a three-technique, Hageman consistently pushes his counterparts deep into the backfield, demonstrating rare upfield burst for a man of his size, as well as impressive strength. A brute in the middle, combining excellent size and power to push blockers deep into the pocket.

Has experience playing a 0, 1, 3 and 5-techniques. Can play in multiple defensive fronts and offers elite versatility