Don't Drink the KoolAid...but try a cup of perspective

[Chuck 54]

Anyone who wants to argue that Frederick was a "Great" draft pick at #31 is definitely trying to convince themselves that the lemon koolaid is champaigne.

However, those who hate the pick and call Jerry a fool for yesterday's dealings need to step back and gain a little perspective.

1. Before the draft, the majority of fans wanted an interior O-lineman more than anyone else available. DT and S were viewed as fallback positions. Some of us didn't see a safety in the draft who was a sure thing to win a starting position. DT was going to be reach if our top guy wasn't there and we had to pull the trigger on Sly Williams.

2. We already knew that the Cowboys had first round grades on only 16 players while selecting #18.

Sadly, the entire first round ran just as most feared. All the top guys we wanted for the OL were long gone, and the best 3-tech DT from Missouri was gone. Those of us who were NOT fans of Vaccaro were happy to see him go. The only players left for us were Eifert and Floyd...sigh.

So the Cowboys were already looking at selecting what they viewed as 2nd round talent. So the media guys had him projected as a 3rd round pick; that doesn't mean the Cowboys didn't view him as a 2nd round pick.

Bottom line is we probably got the #1 interior OL guy we had targeted after the top studs were gone. This guy was a starter at LG as a junior and moved to Center when Konz was injured. He's a big man and his shotgun snaps are said to be accurate with good velocity (sorry Costa).

I understand not being excited when you wanted Cooper or Warmack, but the DTs and Ss were not standout players who were going to walk in and make a huge difference.

If we come out of this draft with a C/G starter and a RT to compete for the position, we will have greatly improved our offense, where we already are fortunate to have a QB, receivers, and a RB who need that blocking.

On defense, we're really looking for guys who can compete for a spot in the rotation or to develop. Safety is the only spot where someone might actually win a starting role if Church and Johnson aren't what the coaches think they are. And I'm sure the Cowboys have an eye on a couple of safety prospects that might be more what they are looking for than what fans were looking for.

A starting C/OG and #74 instead of another small school or 5'8" safety or another 1-Tech DT really isn't reason to cry that the sky is falling.

 

[gambit187]

Very well said, thank you for the post.

 

[Chuck 54]

"When it came time to select at No. 31, Frederick was the highest-ranked player on the Cowboys' draft board. Frederick had a second-round grade, but the team felt justified getting him at No. 31 after ranking him as the 22nd overall prospect."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4707864/how-the-trade-went-down

 

[ceerrece]

Nice, honest post. What happened yesterday it's not a tragedy, we needed OL, it's just that we get the feeling that we could have done better.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I like the player.

I didn't like the slot he was chosen.

HOWEVER, based on what we've seen so far I wouldn't bet that the kid would have slid to #47... I just don't think so.

Also I didn't like any of the other choices at #31.

Bottom line he was taken too early BUT wouldn't surprise me to see the kid be a solid starter in the league for a long time to come and will help stabalize the middle of the line for the Cowboys be at center or guard.

 

[Miller]

I like the player.

I didn't like the slot he was chosen.

HOWEVER, based on what we've seen so far I wouldn't bet that the kid would have slid to #47... I just don't think so.

Also I didn't like any of the other choices at #31.

Bottom line he was taken too early BUT wouldn't surprise me to see the kid be a solid starter in the league for a long time to come and will help stabalize the middle of the line for the Cowboys be at center or guard.

First I'm glad the OP wrote something with perspective

Secondly, I agree with the quoted completely. This guy is good for us. BUT I don't like how we went around the 1st round. I think he would have been there or close enough to get him if this is who we wanted. I also think we could have had a DT at 18 with him.

 

[Verdict]

I haven't followed Frederick but the Cowboy's recent draft history suggests that they know what they are doing. He is obviously a powerful center, and by taking him in the first round it says "We are not going to risk losing our guy". They must really love him.

Here is what sort of makes me scratch my head about this pick. He doesn't seem to be good in space at all. Wouldn't he be a better power blocking OL than a ZBS lineman?


If we value Frederick more than the other center options, wouldn't we also have preferred Warmack over Cooper? They seem much more alike than Frederick and Cooper.

Finally, if we intend on playing Frederick at guard this seems totally contrary to everything the Cowboys have been saying they want out of an offensive lineman.

I welcome responses to this post.

 

[Verdict]

In a perfect world we would have traded down about 15 spots and still got Frederick and another pick. But I am OK with the pick if they feel that strongly that they didn't want to chance losing him.

That isn't "letting the draft board come to you". I will be honest ..... that bothers me a little. That says we reached based on need. It isn't the end of the world, but realistically, generally reaches for us haven't turned out very well. I'm just hoping this one is different.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Anyone who wants to argue that Frederick was a "Great" draft pick at #31 is definitely trying to convince themselves that the lemon koolaid is champaigne.

However, those who hate the pick and call Jerry a fool for yesterday's dealings need to step back and gain a little perspective.

1. Before the draft, the majority of fans wanted an interior O-lineman more than anyone else available. DT and S were viewed as fallback positions. Some of us didn't see a safety in the draft who was a sure thing to win a starting position. DT was going to be reach if our top guy wasn't there and we had to pull the trigger on Sly Williams.

2. We already knew that the Cowboys had first round grades on only 16 players while selecting #18.

Sadly, the entire first round ran just as most feared. All the top guys we wanted for the OL were long gone, and the best 3-tech DT from Missouri was gone. Those of us who were NOT fans of Vaccaro were happy to see him go. The only players left for us were Eifert and Floyd...sigh.

So the Cowboys were already looking at selecting what they viewed as 2nd round talent. So the media guys had him projected as a 3rd round pick; that doesn't mean the Cowboys didn't view him as a 2nd round pick.

Bottom line is we probably got the #1 interior OL guy we had targeted after the top studs were gone. This guy was a starter at LG as a junior and moved to Center when Konz was injured. He's a big man and his shotgun snaps are said to be accurate with good velocity (sorry Costa).

I understand not being excited when you wanted Cooper or Warmack, but the DTs and Ss were not standout players who were going to walk in and make a huge difference.

If we come out of this draft with a C/G starter and a RT to compete for the position, we will have greatly improved our offense, where we already are fortunate to have a QB, receivers, and a RB who need that blocking.

On defense, we're really looking for guys who can compete for a spot in the rotation or to develop. Safety is the only spot where someone might actually win a starting role if Church and Johnson aren't what the coaches think they are. And I'm sure the Cowboys have an eye on a couple of safety prospects that might be more what they are looking for than what fans were looking for.

A starting C/OG and #74 instead of another small school or 5'8" safety or another 1-Tech DT really isn't reason to cry that the sky is falling.

I don't put much stock in media guys. their track record on predicting good players from 15th pick on is horrible in general.

 

[SMCowboy]

I like the player.

I didn't like the slot he was chosen.

HOWEVER, based on what we've seen so far I wouldn't bet that the kid would have slid to #47... I just don't think so.

Also I didn't like any of the other choices at #31.

Bottom line he was taken too early BUT wouldn't surprise me to see the kid be a solid starter in the league for a long time to come and will help stabalize the middle of the line for the Cowboys be at center or guard.

He was taken to early? Based on what? Based on some wanna be draft experts mock drafts?

Here are the facts we know that give us a good idea about how other NFL teams viewed him, and the value he was. We had him as the #22 guy on our board. We know that Fredrick was expected to go in the early 2nd round, or maybe slip into the late first round. Based on what teams where giving him the most attention and what they where telling him.

It sure sounds to me like we got a guy that we, as well as atleast several other NFL teams viewed as an early 2nd round caliber player at pick #31. Not a home run steal of a pick. But a good solid value pick, at an area of real need. If you want to put more value in what online mock draft wanna be draft experts think of a player, that is your prerogative. Personally I am going to put more trust in what actual NFL teams think of a player.

 

[SMCowboy]

In a perfect world we would have traded down about 15 spots and still got Frederick and another pick. But I am OK with the pick if they feel that strongly that they didn't want to chance losing him.

That isn't "letting the draft board come to you". I will be honest ..... that bothers me a little. That says we reached based on need. It isn't the end of the world, but realistically, generally reaches for us haven't turned out very well. I'm just hoping this one is different.

What gives you the idea that Fredrick would have been there 15 spots later? If you listen to Fredricks Conference Call, he was expecting to go early 2nd round, with a chance of sneaking into the first round based on what teams where giving him the most attention.

We obviously have different opinions of what "letting the draft come to you" means. I don't consider drafting the guy you have ranked as #22 on your draft board at #31 overall reaching. Had we drafted him at #18, even thought we didn't have a first round grade on him, because he fit a need. Then yes, I absolutely would call that reaching. But we selected a guy at #31 that we had ranked #22 on our board. At the position that is the biggest need for us. A home run in value, no absolutely not. But a very solid value pick, at a position of need.

 

[Eddie]

In a perfect world we would have traded down about 15 spots and still got Frederick and another pick. But I am OK with the pick if they feel that strongly that they didn't want to chance losing him.

That isn't "letting the draft board come to you". I will be honest ..... that bothers me a little. That says we reached based on need. It isn't the end of the world, but realistically, generally reaches for us haven't turned out very well. I'm just hoping this one is different.

Anyone who wanted OL after the top 5 were seriously reaching.

BUT, I also think we could have gotten Frederick by trading down another 10 picks and getting a late 3rd rounder.

 

[Verdict]

What gives you the idea that Fredrick would have been there 15 spots later? If you listen to Fredricks Conference Call, he was expecting to go early 2nd round, with a chance of sneaking into the first round based on what teams where giving him the most attention.

We obviously have different opinions of what "letting the draft come to you" means. I don't consider drafting the guy you have ranked as #22 on your draft board at #31 overall reaching. Had we drafted him at #18, even thought we didn't have a first round grade on him, because he fit a need. Then yes, I absolutely would call that reaching. But we selected a guy at #31 that we had ranked #22 on our board. At the position that is the biggest need for us. A home run in value, no absolutely not. But a very solid value pick, at a position of need.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have selected Frederick or that he won't be a great player. I'm just saying that if it is true that every team had a second round grade on him at best, then it is a bit of a reach based on draft value ..... you didn't get as much bang for your buck as you could have.

I think it is sort of interesting ..... I hadn't heard Frederick pimped much on this forum before the draft and now everyone is saying he is the concensus best center in this draft after we drafted him. That bothers me a little bit more than where we took him to be honest.

 

[Verdict]

What gives you the idea that Fredrick would have been there 15 spots later? If you listen to Fredricks Conference Call, he was expecting to go early 2nd round, with a chance of sneaking into the first round based on what teams where giving him the most attention.

We obviously have different opinions of what "letting the draft come to you" means. I don't consider drafting the guy you have ranked as #22 on your draft board at #31 overall reaching. Had we drafted him at #18, even thought we didn't have a first round grade on him, because he fit a need. Then yes, I absolutely would call that reaching. But we selected a guy at #31 that we had ranked #22 on our board. At the position that is the biggest need for us. A home run in value, no absolutely not. But a very solid value pick, at a position of need.

I didn't say he would be. Waiting would have been a risk, and apparantly it was a risk they weren't willing to take. Ultimately if he turns out to be a great player I won't care where we took him.

 

[Verdict]

Anyone who wanted OL after the top 5 were seriously reaching.

BUT, I also think we could have gotten Frederick by trading down another 10 picks and getting a late 3rd rounder.

It is hard to tell what is a reach and what is not because every team values players differently. No one viewed Dez as a reach. Nor Sean Lee. It seems when you think you got a steal, that is generally what it turns out to be. Not so much with picks perceived to be reaches.

 

[Future]

I like the player.

I didn't like the slot he was chosen.

HOWEVER, based on what we've seen so far I wouldn't bet that the kid would have slid to #47... I just don't think so.

Also I didn't like any of the other choices at #31.

Bottom line he was taken too early BUT wouldn't surprise me to see the kid be a solid starter in the league for a long time to come and will help stabalize the middle of the line for the Cowboys be at center or guard.

Agreed. Though my initial knee jerk response was to be mad about the reach, perhaps we weren't reaching THAT far. And considering the fact that Frederick will probably be a day 1 starter, and we added another pick who might be a guy that contributes right away, I like this more and more.

 

[ChooChoo73]

I appreciate the post. There is always a way to give a positive, nuanced version of what occurs with this team but generally, our broken infrastructure was on full display in my opinion. I agree the pick could work out well and that all the analysis you gave is on point but I can't believe that what happened last night was on our terms. To me, they were reeling and made a desperate move because they were unprepared and because of that, remain an organizational laughing stock.

For me, they are all out of "they must know what they are doing" credit.

 

[Verdict]

I appreciate the post. There is always a way to give a positive, nuanced version of what occurs with this team but generally, our broken infrastructure was on full display in my opinion. I agree the pick could work out well and that all the analysis you gave is on point but I can't believe that what happened last night was on our terms. To me, they were reeling and made a desperate move because they were unprepared and because of that, remain an organizational laughing stock.

For me, they are all out of "they must know what they are doing" credit.

Well, recent draft success seems to indicate otherwise. But with that being said I think everyone on this forum would be happier with the pick if we had drafted him 15 picks lower.

 

[Chuck 54]

I appreciate the post. There is always a way to give a positive, nuanced version of what occurs with this team but generally, our broken infrastructure was on full display in my opinion. I agree the pick could work out well and that all the analysis you gave is on point but I can't believe that what happened last night was on our terms. To me, they were reeling and made a desperate move because they were unprepared and because of that, remain an organizational laughing stock.

For me, they are all out of "they must know what they are doing" credit.

I can't disagree with your view at all. I just think that while everyone says the draft is deep, clearly there weren't many true first round impact players in round one.

I also think part of our frustration is on us....we're so tired of losing that we even want to "WIN" the draft, "WIN" every trade, and have some mediots tell us that we "WON" and deserve an A+.

Deep down we all know that draft perceptions, even those glowing for Minnesota and St Louis right now, really mean nothing until we see what those players become in 2-3 years....and more importantly, how well the team is doing.

 

[burmafrd]

Anyone who wanted OL after the top 5 were seriously reaching.

BUT, I also think we could have gotten Frederick by trading down another 10 picks and getting a late 3rd rounder.

the way the O linemen were flying off the board? Who thought either Pugh or Long would go that early? If we traded back farther we risked losing out on who we considered the #1 Center in the draft. Obviously a much bigger need then Jerruh wanted to admit.