Draft Rant- 4/3

btcutter;4492507 said:
We'll have to disagree then.

One thing I learned watching Gmen win two SBs is that you NEVER pass on an impact pass rusher if you can find him. Coples certainly have the numbers prove that. As a DC, you need to find a way to maximize your player talent. Ryan shouldn't have trouble utilizing him.

Nothing wrong with having to disagree. I'm really, really big on pass rush, so I appreciate your points. I think the difference is we'd have to make a square peg fit in a round hole, whereas the Giants rushers are all great fits. Adding Coples would be interesting to say the least, though.
 
CowboyHawg2012;4492508 said:
and where does that put Lee, Carter, or Connor if we can move ingram in and out? he can be liability in the run game, I question his ability to cover anybody(not athletically, he certainly has the physical traits) but mentally. We cant move the above 3 to outside if we want to bring Ingram up the middle and Lee, Carter, Connor would get swallowed up on the edges bc of our lack of space eating DE. I think Ingram has trouble written all over him, especially for us

Well there is really only 1 problem. We don't have a good enough defensive line to be able to what Thomas did. Thomas was a freelance guy who could do anything from pressing the tight end, dropping in a zone, playing man to man or coming as an unaccounted rusher. He could really confuse an offense. The Steelers give Polumalu the freedom to freelance in a similar manner.

Both teams can do it because their defensive line has enough good 2 gapping ends and nose tackles that they would not be burned because 1 guy was out of place in a run fit.
 
Well written and well thought out!

-Mark Barron: we could really use the type of physical presence he can provide, as well as his leadership skills. He also doesn't get enough credit as a pass defender. 12 career INT's and 20 PD's. For purely an "in the box" SS, he sure got his hands on a lot of balls (32) in a run-oriented conference. Add his extensive playing experience under Saban and on the big stage (2-time NC), and there are very few holes in this guy as a prospect. A plug and play mainstay in our secondary for years to come. I also get the feeling he's a very safe pick.
Great college player, but limited athlete, IMO. This pick would go against the trend away from the Roy Williams type of safety towards the Eric Berry type.

-Dre Kirkpatrick: while I don't think he's as long (30 5/8" arms) or explosive as some think/thought, he seems like a reasonable pick at 14. Great height, and I've heard he's the best tackling corner in the draft. My concern- because of his somewhat tight hips and lack of true quick twitch athleticism, he seems to fit better as a zone CB. We want to play more man. And though people are saying he'd make a great FS... he's very thin and has never played there. Who knows what kind of transition he'd make. Still, he was a standout at the highest level and has rare size/speed ratio for the position.
Good analysis. I don't get it with this player. Tight hips, short arms, 4.51 forty and only 186 lbs. Gilmore seems better across the board in agility, speed and is 6'1/2" and 190 lbs vs 6'1-1/2 and 186 lbs for Kirkpatrick. The other comparison for a big CB/FS is Trumaine Johnson who has similiar speed but is a legit 6'2", 204 lbs with 33.25 inch arms and will be there in the 2nd/3rd.

-Fletcher Cox: looks like the type of rusher that is a rare find for the 5-tech. Problem is, I do see him as a better 3-tech fit. He likes to shoot gaps and get upfield, not necessarily take on double teams. Not that I don't think he's capable of doing it if asked, but just an observation. We really lack any threat at the DE spot, so he would represent one of the bigger upgrades available over our current personel. I've read great things about his work ethic, and he scored very well in the speed drills at the Combine.
Agree. He shoots the gaps as well as any player in this draft, IMO, but I also have some concern about him playing against double teams or playing the 2-gap technique. Kendall Reyes is a similiar player, IMO. Reyes is not quite as elite at shooting the gaps, but appears to be better against double teams.

-David DeCastro: Mean SOB who puts together a terrific blend of power and technique. Make no mistake about it... his ceiling is lower than Glenn's and probably Silatolu's too. But he has prototype size and short area quickness, along with impeccable ability to find the 2nd level defender or stunter. I could care less who we signed in FA... this is the type of field-ready guy who excites me because he's ALREADY at a near Pro Bowl level. His ceiling may not be as high as Glenn's, but his floor is darn close to his ceiling.
Good analysis, but I don't see much limit to his upside, especially in the zone blocking scheme. He has elite agility and strength.

-Dontari Poe: ewww. Sorry, I just want nothing to do with him. I'm not saying I wouldn't take him at any point in the draft, but I have an impossible time believing he'll go as high as mockers are suggesting, for all the reasons already mentioned on this board 10000 times. Sure, he can be the most dominant force in this draft. But it's far more likely IMO that he turns out to be just an enormous, athletic, average DL who busts miserably.
Agree. He didn't really do anything in college against mid-level competition.

-Melvin Ingram: this is a guy who's right at the top of my wish list for a few reasons: versatility, explosiveness, and highly valued position. I'm not sure if he's ever a full time starting SOLB in our scheme, but I do know that between bringing him off the edge, blitzing him from an ILB spot, or putting his hand down as either a DE or DT... the guy can be on the field a ton and be disruptive. He adds an element that we need, and I'm a huge proponent of pass rush being chiefly important on defense.
I like this player, but too many questions to draft at #14, IMO. If the Boys are going to draft a part-time pass-rusher, then just wait and draft Bruce Irvin in the 2nd. Irvin is a much more dynamic outside pass-rusher, IMO, and could also blitz from an ILB spot. Another option is to wait to the 2nd and get a full-time SOLB by picking Shea McClellin.

-Courtney Upshaw: don't want much to do with this guy, although I wouldn't be nearly as upset as if Poe is the pick. I know people say "watch the tape," and don't want to focus on measurables... but the measurables are atrocious and I blatantly could've predicted it based on the tape. Another poster put it well when he said that the bullying game works in college but not in the NFL. He will be productive based on his strength, versatility, and relentlessness... but his ceiling is very low, and I see him as just a slight upgrade over Spencer.
Excellent analysis. All of the Alabama defenders are a little overrated with Upshaw being the most overrated, IMO. He'd make a really good FB.

-Peter Konz: really don't want him at 14, but would be happy with him in a trade down. The OL is so important, and Konz would pretty much solidify it (that would be the hope, at least). I just don't see him as a Pouncey or Mangold-like elite C. I see him as more of just a very solid, field-ready, powerful anchor C who would be a great upgrade for us, but isn't at the same level athletically as prospects at other positions. Would make for a comforting pick, but not necessarily a fist pumper.
Agree. Limited upside but safe at a position of huge need. If I had the choice of Konz in the 1st or Philip Blake in the 3rd, I'd choose Blake all day every day.

-Cordy Glenn: I'm very high on him. I actually like him almost as much as DeCastro because of his size and versatility. It can't be understated how important it MIGHT be that he can play RT; presumably at a pretty high level. Potential to dominate at OG, and at a minimum would still be an upgrade over what we have there currently. Lots of experience at different OL spots in the SEC. Dominated at the Senior Bowl... want a bold prediction? He's off the board when we pick.
In the zone blocking scheme, I think DeCastro is a much better fit than Glenn. Glenn has great straight line speed but very limited agility. Lateral agility is probably the top requirement of an OLineman in the zone blocking scheme, IMO. It would be nice to have a Guard that could function as the 4th OT. Konz or Blake might be able to be that 4th OT. I think Konz played OT at some point and Blake came to Baylor as an OT. Also, Arkin was a LT in college.


I would add Gilmore to your list of possible 1st round picks.
 
-Cordy Glenn: I'm very high on him. I actually like him almost as much as DeCastro because of his size and versatility. It can't be understated how important it MIGHT be that he can play RT; presumably at a pretty high level. Potential to dominate at OG, and at a minimum would still be an upgrade over what we have there currently. Lots of experience at different OL spots in the SEC. Dominated at the Senior Bowl... want a bold prediction? He's off the board when we pick.


Im right there with you. I actually like him better already than Decastro at the point of contact.

He has more overall potential than Decastro imo.

He is going to be a beast and he can play tackle in a pinch.
 
Appreciate all the feedback fellas. I think one thing is pretty clear... nothing is clear!

Another conclusion I can draw is that no matter how you personally feel about a prospect, between all these guys mentioned, there is going to be 5 or 6 or 7 on the board with "splitting hairs" grades who can really help us. Formula for a trade down?
 
CowboyHawg2012;4492449 said:
I know im in the minority, out of everybody out in the draft community, but i dont want Ingram at all. Ya he's extremely athletic and versatile. But he is not going to be a pro bowl caliber player unless teams use him the correct way and I dont see us as a fit for him. I dont think he is a bust by any means. but I believe he is average and their are pro bowl caliber players available where people are talking/mocking ingram to go.
-He does get lost in run support.
-its not brought up alot, but i question his motor in-game, specifically during plays. he has a tendency to "let up" once OLine get hands on him and if he is rushing upfield and the play goes the other way, he tends to stop and watch.

just my thoughts. we'll know for sure in a few years right?

I'm not that high on Ingram. To me he's a jack of all trades, master of none. I just don't know one thing he's truly great at. A lot of his sacks came on delayed blitzes up the middle through gaps, or some play where he put some athletic spin move on an overwhelmed lumbering offensive guard. I want to see him line up with his hand in the dirt in a 9 tech and beat an offensive tackle mano y mano on his outside shoulder more often. I think a lot of people love with periphery stuff on Ingram, like his kick return or that he was on a hands team for onside kicks. To me is a bit of a sideshow and distraction ... like Kyle Boller throwing the ball through the uprights from his knees.
 
I haven't seen him play, but if Merciless drops into the 20's of the first round or lower, he may qualify as the steal of the draft.

One year wonder? So what does that really mean regarding his pro career? 16 sacks and all those caused fumbles in one season is pretty dang impressive.

Measurables? He ran the fastest 10 yard among DE and LB, running a RB time....that's a first step.

It's going to be interesting where this guy ends up because he had a better year than anyone else projecting to OLB in college football this year, and he has much more impressive measurables than the guys who are ranked ahead of him.

I wouldn't touch him at 14 because I don't know enough, but he's going to be fun to watch.
 
I know nothing about these draft prospects ....wish I watched more college football.

But my 3 picks I like at 14

David DeCastro
Fletcher Cox
Mark Barron

If none are there ..trade down...please.
 

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