Early Draft Picks on D key - Need to start playing to expectations!

[LarryCanadian]

Roy Williams
Kevin Burnett
Bobby Carpenter
Marcus Spears
Chris Canty

Even Hatcher

These guys need to start stepping up. If they don't show something soon, this team will not be superbowl caliber any time soon.

Can someone explain to me if the 3-4 is responsible for the invisibility for Canty and Spears? Is it that these guys are not put in the position to make plays. The only time I really noticed Canty is when he tackled Reeves after the pick. Best hit I saw Canty give. Spears was invisible. These guys are supposed to be talented, but they don't ever stand out.

Carpenter didn't get to play much. I still say he looked good at end of last year. I think he needs play time.

Roy Williams looks to be an average player at best out there. He is in the wrong position so often even on run defense. He seemed to avoid the runner on a few occassions. His tackling technique is terrible. I like hard hitters but you have to pick your spots.

I thought James, Ware, and actually Spencer played pretty good. Raitliff deserves Kudos.

We keep spending high draft picks on "D" though and some of these guys don't show spark. They don't even show as solid. Too quiet. But then again I'm no football expert and don't know if it's the 3-4 or just that these guys don't have it. Early in Phillips scheme but you want to see something in year 3! I'm getting real worried. Can't keep missing.

LarryCanadian

 

[PBJTime]

I really don't get this. Roy was not spectacular and he missed his share, just like everyone else but he still led the team in tackles today with 8 (9 if you go by NFL.com, which is tied for the most this week.) Some things get blown out of proportion.

 

[LarryCanadian]

I understand Roy's defenders, and I admit he was in on almost every play the last series the Giants had (got 4 of his tackles in that series I think). But.....I focussed on this guy all game long. From the 1st touchdown he seemed to be a step away from the play. I saw him get blown up by guards. Make diving shoulder tackles and bounce off and not wrap up, allowing extra yards for runners. I saw him avoid a running back and play patty cake with a Giant Guard instead (I'll give him benefit of doubt and say that he didn't see the runner to his right had the football and was worried about the 300 pound guard coming his way). I saw Roy tackle high instead of at waist or below and again lose his grip on the player. Roy is a flat out lazy tackler. He hits hard no doubt, but he misses a lot more than he used to and also hits our players as hard and maybe even more often now.

His woes in coverage are already well covered, but he was plain lazy on that last Burress TD.

He looks lazy or maybe it's just slow in coverage. Early preseason he looked much quicker and leaner, but he looked slow again tonight.

His blitzes didn't seem to be well timed.

Big problem I think for Roy is he puts his head down, closes his eyes and dives at guys. That is Mickey Mouse league football right there, I don't care how hard he hits, if he misses so often.

Guy is being paid a lot of money to play better than that. Sorry. I liked him from Day 1 as a Cowboy but he has played worse each year since his rookie season and I was desperately hoping for a turn around this year and blamed every coach for mishandling his strengths in the past.

LarryCanadian

 

[superpunk]

We need more threads about this.

 

[Hostile]

We need more threads about this.

Here here.

Free expression of ideas for all.

35 points. We're doomed, and I don't mean the video game.

 

[LarryCanadian]

I never said we are doomed. I'm happy we won the game. Tony Romo looked like a Pro-Bowl QB. The 3rd down TD pass to Hurd under heavy pressure was Clutch! It was magic! Especially after he had thrown a pick just a couple minutes before. Huge pressure and he threw a perfect pass.

But, my original point remains, and Hostile I ask you directly. Aren't you starting to get concerned that most of those guys I listed just aren't showing that they are going to be anything more than average players. My concern is long term. My concern is Super Bowl calibre team.

Hatcher was injured in preseason OK. He has probably performed above expectations to date. Burnett needs a chance and was starting to show talent, but both these guys keep getting knicked up and might not be durable.

Spears, Canty, are considered 1st round talents. They are going into 3rd years.

Williams is a pro-bowler but always seems to be around the bad play now, not the "big" good play.

Your "Stars" need to play like stars on Defense just like offense. These are suppossed to be the guys especially if Newman and Ellis are out.

I think we got lucky tonight that we played a team as beat up as we are, and one that is mediocre now without Tiki and getting old in Strahan etc. Do you think the Cowboys will beat a Patriot Team, a San Diego Team etc if the guys I listed don't start playing to their 1st round talent or probowl billing?

LarryCanadian

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I never said we are doomed. I'm happy we won the game. Tony Romo looked like a Pro-Bowl QB. The 3rd down TD pass to Hurd under heavy pressure was Clutch! It was magic! Especially after he had thrown a pick just a couple minutes before. Huge pressure and he threw a perfect pass.

But, my original point remains, and Hostile I ask you directly. Aren't you starting to get concerned that most of those guys I listed just aren't showing that they are going to be anything more than average players.

Well, some of them are average players. Spears and Carpenter are looking like bad draft picks. Maybe Burnett, too, if his injury problems were forseeable.

Canty, a fourth rounder who's started every game except early in his rookie year? Very good pick. Hatcher, a third rounder who has a good pass rush and lots of untapped ability? Good pick. You can't rail on those guys.

But Spears and Carpenter, fire away. Especially Carpenter.

But fire away at the people who drafted them, and not the players themselves. Because demanding that Ryan Leaf play to his paper won't make him suck any less. He just doesn't have it.

 

[superpunk]

But fire away at the people who drafted them, and not the players themselves. Because demanding that Ryan Leaf play to his paper won't make him suck any less. He just doesn't have it.

You can't win em all. Regardless, I think Ireland has done a very nice job here, and will continue to do so. Carpenter and Spears don't damn him, Jerry, or Bill - they're just part of the process. All teams miss. It just sucks to look at the players we missed on sometimes.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You can't win em all. Regardless, I think Ireland has done a very nice job here, and will continue to do so. Carpenter and Spears don't damn him, Jerry, or Bill - they're just part of the process. All teams miss. It just sucks to look at the players we missed on sometimes.

Spears I might call an acceptable kind of miss... He's not that good, but he's at least good enough to start and play a lot of snaps for you. Those kinds of players are very normal for a #20, I'd think. So while it's not what you'd like, it's not a disaster, either.

Carpenter, I'm sad to say, is starting to look like he can't play. This team doesn't exactly have all-star inside LBs, and has only a rookie at OLB, and he still can't get on the field. I think he's just incredibly non-aggressive and non-physical for a linebacker. Maybe he gets more chances as the year goes on, but I'm beginning to doubt it.

 

[NextGenBoys]

You can't win em all. Regardless, I think Ireland has done a very nice job here, and will continue to do so. Carpenter and Spears don't damn him, Jerry, or Bill - they're just part of the process. All teams miss. It just sucks to look at the players we missed on sometimes.

You cant miss on first round draft picks like Spears and Carpenter and expect to win SB's. Go check the first round picks of the previous SB winners like the Colts and Pats. Better yet I'll do it for you:

Colts:
06 - Joseph Addai
05 - Marlin Jackson
04 - Dallas Clark
03 - None
02 - Dwight Freeny
01 - Reggie Wayne
00 - Rob Morris
99 - Edgerrin James
98 - Peyton Manning
97 - Tarik Glenn
96 - Marvin Harrison

I cant seem to find the Patriots but off the top of my head there is:
06 - Lawrence Maroney
05 - A tackle who is starting now
04 - Vince Wilfork
cant remember many others.
Point is, you cant miss on first round picks and expect to be contending for a Super Bowl. Granted you're going to miss on some draft picks, but you need to be very consistant with your first rounders to have success.

 

[superpunk]

You cant miss on first round draft picks like Spears and Carpenter and expect to win SB's. Go check the first round picks of the previous SB winners like the Colts and Pats. Better yet I'll do it for you:

Colts:
06 - Joseph Addai
05 - Marlin Jackson
04 - Dallas Clark
03 - None
02 - Dwight Freeny
01 - Reggie Wayne
00 - Rob Morris
99 - Edgerrin James
98 - Peyton Manning
97 - Tarik Glenn
96 - Marvin Harrison

I cant seem to find the Patriots but off the top of my head there is:
06 - Lawrence Maroney
05 - A tackle who is starting now
04 - Vince Wilfork
cant remember many others.
Point is, you cant miss on first round picks and expect to be contending for a Super Bowl. Granted you're going to miss on some draft picks, but you need to be very consistant with your first rounders to have success.

Once they're drafted, position is irrelevent. The Colts draft outstandingly - that's why they're the champs, and have a young team and a team full of life-time Colts. But the Pats don't draft any better than we do. They hit around 50%, just like we do - which is actually pretty good for an NFL team.

But draft position is irrelevent in the way you're talking about it. Maybe it hurts your cap more if the don't work out, but a player is a player regardless of round, and the opposite is true, too. Sometimes, you just have to be lucky with a little smarts thrown in, as NE and Dallas are demonstrating at QB.

 

[Tass]

I think he's just incredibly non-aggressive and non-physical for a linebacker.

Isn't that akin to being a world-class swimmer that doesn't like getting wet?