Ellis improving legacy

[jterrell]

I actually think that Ellis compares more favorably to Jim Jeffcoat. Jeffcoat, like Ellis was a pretty good Pass Rusher but was also a heck of a Run Stopper. I think the comparison is probably better. JMO.

Jeffcoat is an interesting comparison. He is where Ellis would like to end up with about 4 more good years in him as at least a nickel player, average 7.5 sacks for 4 years and voila.

Jeffcoat had 95 sacks as a Cowboys and ranks 20th all-time(1 spot ahead of Haley's overrated behind, lol) with 104.

If I was gonna compare Ellis to any one player it would be Willie McGinest. I think they are very similar players. McGinest has 85 career sacks, btw.

 

[jterrell]

That statement cause you to lose all credibility. Charles Haley was easliy one of the most dominating pass rushers / players in the league during his time and he has 5 SuperBowl rings to prove it.

No, it makes you look like a typical fan who learns by hearing not reading....

Haley had 34 sacks in 5 years as a Cowboy. He played his entire career for great offenses that got ahead and allowed him to attack QB's foregoing run duties.

Haley gets made out to be LT but he couldn't hold LT's jock.

Haley was a QB terror at points but for the majority of his 5 years in Dallas he was just a guy and usually just a hurt guy.

Haley is not even a top 20 all-time pass rusher and thats just or guys since 1981. OVER-RATED.

Yes, he has a multitude of Super Bowl rings... he can thank Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Deion Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Ronnie Lott and the ridiculous litany of Hall of Famers he played with.

Outside of the 16 sacks he had in 1990, Charles Haley NEVER had more than the 12.5 sacks Greg Ellis had LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!


Argue with facts not perceptions.

 

[Disturbed]

Greg Ellis is as far from being a HOF player as I am. No chance- not even close.

And I'd bet that you whine a lot less.... Ellis has been average at best during his overall career, benefiting from better players taking double teams. In fact, the cowboys will be better once Spencer is the starter -- he has the ability to be much better than Ellis.

 

[khiladi]

No, it makes you look like a typical fan who learns by hearing not reading....

Does that typical fan include the likes of Bill Walsh?

Outside of the 16 sacks he had in 1990, Charles Haley NEVER had more than the 12.5 sacks Greg Ellis had LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!

And that was the only time Greg Ellis even broke 10. Haley broke 10 sacks 6 times. In 1995, he had 10.5 sacks, and he didn't play three games. Haley also racked up more tackles per year than Ellis ever did. Ellis never even sniffed the upper 50s. Haley had 69 one year.

What are you talking about?

 

[Disturbed]

Haley is not even a top 20 all-time pass rusher and thats just or guys since 1981. OVER-RATED.

Outside of the 16 sacks he had in 1990, Charles Haley NEVER had more than the 12.5 sacks Greg Ellis had LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!

Argue with facts not perceptions.

I agree with the general sentiment on the board, but I am curious about Haley's stats during the post season. He seemed to play bigger in the biggest games....is that true or just a favorable past image.

Ellis is not a leader or as intense as Haley, so his intangibles do not compare favorably to Haley.

 

[Verdict]

Ellis is a very good (not great, nor game impacting) player. He was drafted fairly highly, but I believe he has validated his draft status. If you had a team full of Greg Ellis type of players, you wouldn't have any superstars, but you would win lots of games.

Teams who draft well draft Greg Ellis type players in the 2nd thru 4th rounds. I think a player like Ratliff is a Greg Ellis type of player, but at a much better draft position.

 

[jterrell]

And I'd bet that you whine a lot less.... Ellis has been average at best during his overall career, benefiting from better players taking double teams. In fact, the cowboys will be better once Spencer is the starter -- he has the ability to be much better than Ellis.

Are you on medication?

Can you name any pass rusher who has less overall help than Greg Ellis for their careers?

Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Ebeneezer Ekuban... good grief.

Ellis was still drawing double teams in DeMarcus Ware's rookie season. Only recently is he not doubled and he spent week one in the slot jamming Winslow at the line.

 

[jterrell]

I agree with the general sentiment on the board, but I am curious about Haley's stats during the post season. He seemed to play bigger in the biggest games....is that true or just a favorable past image.

Ellis is not a leader or as intense as Haley, so his intangibles do not compare favorably to Haley.

Dude, Haley was not a leader. He was kicked out of SF because his teammates HATED him. Here, no one talked to him for about two years according to Troy Aikman because they thought he guy was mental.

Greg Ellis has been a team captain for most of his career.

I do agree about the intense part. Probably helps to be crazy.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No, it makes you look like a typical fan who learns by hearing not reading....

Haley had 34 sacks in 5 years as a Cowboy. He played his entire career for great offenses that got ahead and allowed him to attack QB's foregoing run duties.

Charles Haley only finished with something like 100.5 sacks for his career, but he also had like 160+ QB pressures. Sometimes the sack itself isn't the only thing that matters. Many of the INTs the Cowboys where caused by Haley's pressure.

 

[khiladi]

Are you on medication?

Can you name any pass rusher who has less overall help than Greg Ellis for their careers?

Shante Carver, Kavika Pittman, Ebeneezer Ekuban... good grief.

Ekuban had 8 sacks when he played for Cleveland. That was the most Greg Ellis ever garnered prior to last year. And Cleveland was just as crappy a team as Dallas was, actually worse.

So I guess the reason Ekuban is average and not great is because he didn't have help.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ekuban had 8 sacks when he played for Cleveland. That was the most Greg Ellis ever garnered prior to last year. And Cleveland was just as crappy a team as Dallas was, actually worse.

So I guess the reason Ekuban is average and not great is because he didn't have help.

Don't argue with him. He has some extreme emotional bias under the hood. It's not worth the effort because he will refuse to see anything any other way.

 

[khiladi]

Don't argue with him. He has some extreme emotional bias under the hood. It's not worth the effort because he will refuse to see anything any other way.

I especially like this quote, regarding Haley:

He (Haley) played his entire career for great offenses that got ahead and allowed him to attack QB's foregoing run duties.

And yet, Greg Ellis' greatest year sacking the QB was the year Dallas had it's most explosive offense ever, an offense that got ahead early and often.

BTW, I don't remember Haley vanishing in December and the play-offs. It is like the people who equate Greg Ellis to Jason Taylor, as if Ellis is even close to Taylor.

 

[Disturbed]

Are you on medication?

No meds here - just my opinions.

And opinions will vary on a board like this....so calling someone out by claiming they are on meds just because they don't agree with you opinion is weak.

I know a lot of people love Ellis. But if you back away from the past couple of years and look at his entire career you will see he is an average player.

Haley may have been crazy. But he was an impact player who was game planned and seemed to show up the biggest in the big games. The same can not be said of Ellis.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jeffcoat is an interesting comparison. He is where Ellis would like to end up with about 4 more good years in him as at least a nickel player, average 7.5 sacks for 4 years and voila.

Jeffcoat had 95 sacks as a Cowboys and ranks 20th all-time(1 spot ahead of Haley's overrated behind, lol) with 104.

If I was gonna compare Ellis to any one player it would be Willie McGinest. I think they are very similar players. McGinest has 85 career sacks, btw.

I can kinda see the comparissons of the two. The position changes etc. I was really thinking more along the lines of Cowboys but I can see Ellis and WM in a lot of ways. I believe that Jeffcoat was a better Pass Rusher, especially early in his career, then was Ellis but I do look at them very simularly. One of the advantages Jeffcoat had over Ellis was who was still in Dallas when Jeffcoat came to Dallas. White, Too Tall, Dutton and Martin were all still here, contributing to various degrees. To me, that's the biggest difference in the two players. Jeffcoat was an excellent player against the run, as is Ellis, even today. Interestingly enough, Ellis has historically been a better player against the Run then a pass rusher. I mean, he has been a good pass rusher but he was always, IMO, a better run defender. Both players enjoyed a resurgance, of sorts, at relatively the same times in there careers (each becoming a specialist, of sorts). Each was considered the leader of there respective defensive teams later in there careers. Each played through bad Dallas teams in what should have been the primes of there careers. Each kinda taught young talent how to play in the NFL later in there careers and each enjoyed playing for championship calibur teams just prior to ending there careers. I see a lot of simularities in the two but thats just me.