ESPN Insider: 10 Logical Cap Casualties... WR Roy Williams

[Stash]

Typical over reaction and emotional ranting and raving. Fact is there really was noone great that we missed for not having a first rd pick. Fact is that at the time Jerruh was thinking we might have to let TO go and we needed a big time WR.

Fact is the writer is a hack who understands very little.

Disagree completely.

Jerry wasn't thinking about letting TO go at all but rather pairing Williams and Owens together. He was convinced to dump TO well after the trade was made.

If not for this trade, the Cowboys would have had the opportunity to draft Michael Oher who had a stellar rookie season and will be yet another cornerstone for the Ravens franchise.

If they had done that, they would already have their left tackle of the future in place and not be scrambling to find Adams' replacement.

 

[TheCount]

If you think for a NY second that the Cowboys would have drafted Pettigrew, I have a Brooklyn bridge for sale that you might be interested in. Yea, spending a #1 draft choice on a TE with Jason Witten and Marty Bennett on the roster " makes a ton of sense ".

Percy Harvin wasn't even on their draft board because of off the field issues.

The Cowboys, also, wouldn't have spent another #1 pick on a LB or CB considering who they have on the roster, and ABSOLUTELY 100% not on a RB either, so you can eliminate Vontae Davis, Clay Mathews, Donald Brown, and Chris Wells too.

Having just signed Igor and having Spears, Ratt, Hatcher, Bowen and Siavii already on the roster, it would have been extremely difficult for a #1 draft pick to come in get any significant amount of playing time, if at all. So, basically, spending a #1 pick on Peria Jerry or Ziggy Wood would have been for the future, which is what they did with Brandon Williams in the 4th round anyways.

About the only 5 players out of that list that could have been drafted reasonably speaking are Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Michael Oher, Eric Wood, and Alex Mac. Oher, Wood and Mac wouldn't have seen the field at all last year and since T.O. was released, they probably would have gone after Nicks or Britt.

Only problem with that is, at that point, with the Cowboys having released T.O., they would have found themselves with Patrick Crayton as the best receiver on the roster and nothing but question marks after that because NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY can honestly say they knew that Austin was about to break out.

Looking back at " what if " is fun to do if done with proper prespective.

I can't argue with you, and not because I agree with a word of anything you just said.

No, it hasn't been a disaster.

We were able to cut TO because of the trade. That's a pretty big bag of win.

We did lose a 1st and 3rd and yes that 1st round had talent but your list is a silly one because it applies about zero to us a team.

Listing every decent player left in the draft is just for comedy purposes and has no basis on the Dallas Cowboys.

I would have preferred a large handful of players over RW11 to be sure. But none of those players would have meant we could cut TO. Harvin looks great but he had off the field issues which means we have to wait a bit to judge him. If he fails a drug test then all of a sudden no one is so hot on him.

It's clear RW11 hasn't lived up to the trade but it's also clear we moved on from TO and played the best football we've played this decade AFTER the trade. That's pretty much the opposite of disaster.

No one was happier to see us acquire Roy than I was, so trust me that I don't take it lightly to say it has been a disaster thus far. You can justify it however way you want, but if the Commanders had given up what we gave up and gotten the kind of production we've gotten, we'd be laughing our butts off.

As I said, the only saving grace is that we got to release TO. Miles emergence and the playoff win definitely help to ease the sting, but to question whether Roy has been a bust here so far is absolutely ridiculous.

The man caught 45% of his targets last year. 45%! That's 6th WORST in the league among starting receivers. Right between Bryant Johnson and Justin Gage. 2 receivers with worse percentages play for Oakland.

If you guys aren't even willing to even see that I'm not saying things can't get better, or that it was a stupid move, etc. I'm just pointing out that thus far it has been a disaster, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

[Jon88]

Roy Williams isn't going anywhere. Jerry isn't going to admit such a huge fault. He'll have one more year to learn the system and show what he can do.

We'll see....

 

[hutch1254]

Wow Nate Clements. Wow.

Yeah, having seen him play with the Bills, when he got that contract my jaw dropped. I mean decent player but holy cow 80 mil? WHAT?

 

[MWILL]

What's the deal with the colorful post? Nice avatar BTW boondocks FTw.

Just color coding my answers to the questions that's all.

And the avatar came from Afro Samurai.

 

[igtmfo]

Other possible bad scenarios regarding RW are:

a) He inhibits us from drafting a WR if that WR is the best value on our board when we're on the clock.

b) A low-drafted or UDFA rookie WR outplays Roy in preseason, but Jerry keeps Roy on final cutdown day to save face. Similar to keeping Brad Johnson over Matt Moore.

 

[jterrell]

Let get this straight, Jerry cuts WR that was more productive on the field but a "distraction" in the lockerroom. Now, Jerry wants to keep a WR that has done nothing on the field, but a "good guy" in the lookerroom. Wow, attitude means alot.

Jerry needs to cut Roy, and find a WR in the draft... EARLY in the draft. not after the draft.

if by this you mean jerry should be looking at wr in the draft and draft one if the right guy is there then i'd agree.

if you mean he should cut rw11 today and then hope he can force his way into position to draft a wr early then i'd say you are being a goofy fan

no need to panic at all.

we can handle the contract and rw11 isn't a 4th or 5th WR.

he got less passes but didn't complain hardly at all. he owned up to needing to play better and had a good game near the very end of the year.

he doesn't look like a top flight WR but neither is crayton or hurd and we may well bring them both back as well.

 

[jterrell]

Disagree completely.

Jerry wasn't thinking about letting TO go at all but rather pairing Williams and Owens together. He was convinced to dump TO well after the trade was made.

If not for this trade, the Cowboys would have had the opportunity to draft Michael Oher who had a stellar rookie season and will be yet another cornerstone for the Ravens franchise.

If they had done that, they would already have their left tackle of the future in place and not be scrambling to find Adams' replacement.

This is the kind of post that begs for laughter.

You first assume you know what Jerry was thinking and when then back up that clairvoyance with assumptions about a single particular draftee.

It would be much preferable to have Oher here instead of RW11 to be sure but just wishing it so doesn't make it happen. We would have VERY, VERY,VERY likely been forced to go WR in r1 OR we would have simply kept T.O.

Anyone who thinks we would have went into the season with Austin(who was hurt in TC and missed plenty of practice), Crayton, Hurd and Olgetree is nuts. Jesse Holley or Manuel Johnson to fill out that group? yea, right... lol.

 

[jterrell]

No one was happier to see us acquire Roy than I was, so trust me that I don't take it lightly to say it has been a disaster thus far. You can justify it however way you want, but if the Commanders had given up what we gave up and gotten the kind of production we've gotten, we'd be laughing our butts off.

As I said, the only saving grace is that we got to release TO. Miles emergence and the playoff win definitely help to ease the sting, but to question whether Roy has been a bust here so far is absolutely ridiculous.

The man caught 45% of his targets last year. 45%! That's 6th WORST in the league among starting receivers. Right between Bryant Johnson and Justin Gage. 2 receivers with worse percentages play for Oakland.

If you guys aren't even willing to even see that I'm not saying things can't get better, or that it was a stupid move, etc. I'm just pointing out that thus far it has been a disaster, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

Neither the Cowboys nor we need any help. That's exactly the point. you note yourself that the trade meant we could jettison T.O. That may well have been the biggest move we made all last year. He left and morale improved. Ware and Romo became the unquestioned leaders. Brooking came in and provided additional leadership.

RW11 was a fairly bad WR last year and was awful by any #1 WR standards. But he wasn't awful by #2 WR standards. He produced TDs and he blocked well and he generally did so while keeping his mouth shut. He certainly did drop wayyy too many passes but the guy he was replacing wasn't exactly sure-handed.

Again, not sure you are following along so I'll try to make this in concrete logical fashion.

A) Disasters don't make for better results.
A1) Dallas won the division after finishing 3rd the prior year plus won it's first playoff game in over a decade.
B) T.O. leaving changed the team's morale and allowed more team-centric guys to emerge as leaders.
B1) Better leadership, morale and team direction was credited all year with improved play especially at the end of the year where we finally played well in December and in getting 2 blowout wins over the Birds.

 

[MWILL]

if by this you mean jerry should be looking at wr in the draft and draft one if the right guy is there then i'd agree.

if you mean he should cut rw11 today and then hope he can force his way into position to draft a wr early then i'd say you are being a goofy fan

no need to panic at all.

we can handle the contract and rw11 isn't a 4th or 5th WR.

he got less passes but didn't complain hardly at all. he owned up to needing to play better and had a good game near the very end of the year.

he doesn't look like a top flight WR but neither is crayton or hurd and we may well bring them both back as well.

Yeah, I feel they should draft one (in the 2nd/3rd round) if a good one is available. We all know they won't draft one in the 1st.

If they don't cut RW then make him earn his position. The fact that they made him the #1 by cuttting T.O. (and not making him earn it) didn't set well with me.

Your right, Crayton is not a top flight WR but he is the more dependable WR.

 

[Randy White]

If they had done that, they would already have their left tackle of the future in place and not be scrambling to find Adams' replacement.

A) who told you that they're scrambling to find Adam's replacement ?

b) how do YOU know he's not already on the roster ?

Just because YOU might not think that Free is capable, doesn't mean the team agrees with you and THEY have shown NO sign whatsoever about "scrambling to find Adam's replacement ".

If anything, they've shown the complete opposite, as in acting like if they already have Adam's replacement.

 

[Randy White]

I can't argue with you, and not because I agree with a word of anything you just said..

Oh stop.. you're hurting my feelings..

 

[Randy White]

This is the kind of post that begs for laughter.

You first assume you know what Jerry was thinking and when then back up that clairvoyance with assumptions about a single particular draftee.

It would be much preferable to have Oher here instead of RW11 to be sure but just wishing it so doesn't make it happen. We would have VERY, VERY,VERY likely been forced to go WR in r1 OR we would have simply kept T.O.

Anyone who thinks we would have went into the season with Austin(who was hurt in TC and missed plenty of practice), Crayton, Hurd and Olgetree is nuts. Jesse Holley or Manuel Johnson to fill out that group? yea, right... lol.

Oher wouldn't have been a consideration exactly because of that.

If anything, we would have probably see Jerrah desperately trying to trade into the top 10 to draft Crabtree, which would have, more than likely, required this year's #1 pick as well.

 

[TheCount]

Neither the Cowboys nor we need any help. That's exactly the point. you note yourself that the trade meant we could jettison T.O. That may well have been the biggest move we made all last year. He left and morale improved. Ware and Romo became the unquestioned leaders. Brooking came in and provided additional leadership.

RW11 was a fairly bad WR last year and was awful by any #1 WR standards. But he wasn't awful by #2 WR standards. He produced TDs and he blocked well and he generally did so while keeping his mouth shut. He certainly did drop wayyy too many passes but the guy he was replacing wasn't exactly sure-handed.

Again, not sure you are following along so I'll try to make this in concrete logical fashion.

A) Disasters don't make for better results.
A1) Dallas won the division after finishing 3rd the prior year plus won it's first playoff game in over a decade.
B) T.O. leaving changed the team's morale and allowed more team-centric guys to emerge as leaders.
B1) Better leadership, morale and team direction was credited all year with improved play especially at the end of the year where we finally played well in December and in getting 2 blowout wins over the Birds.

You can not judge Roy's success on the team by the fact that we let go of another player. Bledsoe wasn't any more of a success because Romo blossmed after he left. Julius wasn't any more of a success because his contract expiring allowed us to draft Felix and Choice. It's just crazy to say Roy has been a success here simply because TO is no longer here.

Roy has been awful as a receiver, there's quite frankly no arguing that. The context of his lack or production is a positive one because the team as whole has been successful, but doesn't change the fact that he's been awful. Not all the blame goes on him, but there's no two ways about it if we're talking production.

If you want to say we gave up the picks and the money not for Roy but team morale, well then that's certainly one way to look at it.

 

[jterrell]

You can not judge Roy's success on the team by the fact that we let go of another player. Bledsoe wasn't any more of a success because Romo blossmed after he left. Julius wasn't any more of a success because his contract expiring allowed us to draft Felix and Choice. It's just crazy to say Roy has been a success here simply because TO is no longer here.

Roy has been awful as a receiver, there's quite frankly no arguing that. The context of his lack or production is a positive one because the team as whole has been successful, but doesn't change the fact that he's been awful. Not all the blame goes on him, but there's no two ways about it if we're talking production.

If you want to say we gave up the picks and the money not for Roy but team morale, well then that's certainly one way to look at it.

You can absolutely say having RW11 here and his expected #1 WR status meant we could jettison T.O. Dallas was a playoff contender and you don't enter seasons with Crayton as the number 1. Miles had lost his chance to start by Training Camp because he was again banged up.

When one move leads to another you can absolutely credit it as the cause.

You did so yourself earlier and now want to back away from it because you realize logically if you accept it then you are arguing with yourself and reality.

Your examples were a bit zany but I can clean up one of them for you. Marion Barber was good enough as a R4 to allow us to jettison Julius Jones which meant we could then draft Felix. That's how it works in the NFL. You move guys that open spots for other players.

 

[TheCount]

You can absolutely say having RW11 here and his expected #1 WR status meant we could jettison T.O. Dallas was a playoff contender and you don't enter seasons with Crayton as the number 1. Miles had lost his chance to start by Training Camp because he was again banged up.

When one move leads to another you can absolutely credit it as the cause.

You did so yourself earlier and now want to back away from it because you realize logically if you accept it then you are arguing with yourself and reality.

Your examples were a bit zany but I can clean up one of them for you. Marion Barber was good enough as a R4 to allow us to jettison Julius Jones which meant we could then draft Felix. That's how it works in the NFL. You move guys that open spots for other players.

I'm not backing away from anything. I said the only saving grace for Roy is that it allowed us to cut TO, that has nothing to do with Roy's performance.