ESPN Insider: 2018 NFL QB Tiers - 50 execs rank starting QBs

[HungryLion]

They are in year three in this offense. They are just learning it. I think they’ll actually be better. They found out what Alshon and Zach can be late in the year. They get back one of the primer 3rd down backs in league history. And they get back a HOF LT. The offense is one of multiplicity. Play design and really talented players give me confidence that we will be ok.

I’m not saying you won’t be ok.

I’m saying the eagles converted 3rd and longs at a much higher rate than even the best offenses typically do. I’m wondering if that same high rate will be sustainable or if it will come back down to earth a little bit.

The offense is still going to be good regardless I imagine.

 

[NFLJUNKY]

You can scheme out the best WRs, the only exception I can think of is Bob Hayes. It is harder to scheme out elite RBs. There's a reason there's a lot of 1000 yard rushers and a lot less 1000 yard receivers. Even in a league where the passing game is favoured. Nobody touches the ball more than the QB and the RB other than the C.

I think the reason you have many more 1000 yard backs is defenses are now equipped to stop the passing game. While the running game was in its heyday you wouldn’t see 230 LBs. Now they are all over the league.
And I disagree you can scheme a running game out. Didn’t you watch the Broncos last year? And if you don’t have a QB to make teams pay you will get beat. Run blitzes by a skilled DC will stall any running game and if that team has a decent offense they’ll make you abandon the running game to keep up.

 

[NFLJUNKY]

You can scheme out the best WRs, the only exception I can think of is Bob Hayes. It is harder to scheme out elite RBs. There's a reason there's a lot of 1000 yard rushers and a lot less 1000 yard receivers. Even in a league where the passing game is favoured. Nobody touches the ball more than the QB and the RB other than the C.

I think the reason you have many more 1000 yard backs is defenses are now equipped to stop the passing game. While the running game was in its heyday you wouldn’t see 230 LBs. Now they are all over the league.
And I disagree you can scheme a running game out. Didn’t you watch the Broncos last year? And if you don’t have a QB to make teams pay you will get beat. Run blitzes by a skilled DC will stall any running game and if that team has a decent offense they’ll make you abandon the running game to keep up.

 

[HungryLion]

Sorry for the delay. But who was lost that may be a difference maker from last year? Robinson? We actually upgraded that spot. Sydney Jones slides right in. Or put Mills in the slot and Jones outside. And there are two other guys who have shown up this spring. I call that a net gain.
Curry? We are replacing his 2.5 sacks with Bennett and his 8.5 sacks add to that a much improved Barnett and again a net gain. Celeb/Burton? We signed Rogers from GB and drafted the best TEin the draft. For a team with suspect safety’s and a rookie MLB I think you should be worried.
Blount? We have Ajaye all off season and Clement after his 100 yards receiving in the SB. Plus we get Sproles back. Regardless of his production he still has to be accounted for. We upgrade WRs as well. Mike Wallace is a much better option than Smith. And we found out what a monster Alshon Jeffery is during the post season.
The plan is to drop older players and draft their replacements. But we should have another run in us this season. What teams would like to do is contend with their QB on rookie deals and hope by the time they have to jettison players he is strong enough to carry the team for the reload. The Pats have done that brilliantly. To a lesser degree GB has as well. N.O., And the Steelers have to.

I don’t really feel like arguing. But how can you call Sydney Jones an upgrade over Robinson?

Robinson played really well for the eagles last year. Meanwhile, Sydney Jones, who is a first round talent, has never taken an NFL snap and is coming off one of the most difficult injuries for a skill position player to recover from. Ruptured achilles’ are a tough injury to bounce back from.

 

[NFLJUNKY]

I’m not saying you won’t be ok.

I’m saying the eagles converted 3rd and longs at a much higher rate than even the best offenses typically do. I’m wondering if that same high rate will be sustainable or if it will come back down to earth a little bit.

The offense is still going to be good regardless I imagine.

I guess that’s why the games are played. But I will tell you this a great scheme executed by great players comfortable in their roles is hard to stop.

 

[CWR]

Wentz lost his LT, one of the best, if not the best in the game and his starting rb, K and still did way better. That's why he's in tier 2 and not tier 3.

Except the Eagles didn't trot out Chaz Green. They had much better depth in general. Thats not an indictment on Dak.

 

[visionary]

Apparently "advanced metrics" don't translate well at all to the field in the real world.

Yeah

Jterrell has really fallen off the wagon

 

[NFLJUNKY]

I don’t really feel like arguing. But how can you call Sydney Jones an upgrade over Robinson?

Robinson played really well for the eagles last year. Meanwhile, Sydney Jones, who is a first round talent, has never taken an NFL snap and is coming off one of the most difficult injuries for a skill position player to recover from. Ruptured achilles’ are a tough injury to bounce back from.

I disagree. Jones was considered a lottery pick before blowing his wheel. And he has taken NFL snaps. And Robinson was on his way out of the league until he found a scheme he could thrive in. And Achilles are much tougher on bigger guys than on little guys. And it’s no argument. Not from me anyways. But yes we upgraded that position with Jones. When Jones was a freshman he graded out higher that season than Marcus Peters. Look it up. He will be a star.

 

[HungryLion]

I disagree. Jones was considered a lottery pick before blowing his wheel. And he has taken NFL snaps. And Robinson was on his way out of the league until he found a scheme he could thrive in. And Achilles are much tougher on bigger guys than on little guys. And it’s no argument. Not from me anyways. But yes we upgraded that position with Jones. When Jones was a freshman he graded out higher that season than Marcus Peters. Look it up. He will be a star.

That’s a projection at best. You have no idea if he will be an upgrade or not.

That’s akin to me calling Michael Gallup an upgrade over Dez Bryant.

 

[aikemirv]

They've both had 1 MVP caliber season and 1 no-no season, the truth for both is probably somewhere in the middle.

Or what have you done for me lately. One progressed and the other digressed - it is that simple!

I honestly have no idea while Roethlisberger gets a Tier 1 and Ryan does not.

 

[CPanther95]

Or what have you done for me lately. One progressed and the other digressed - it is that simple!

I honestly have no idea while Roethlisberger gets a Tier 1 and Ryan does not.

Maybe when you join a 6-10 team then lead them to a 15-1 season and playoff win in your rookie season - then never have a losing season for 15 straight years - you automatically get a Tier 1 ranking.

 

[aikemirv]

I love how people prop up Wentz as the next greatest thing, while slighting Dak. The stats just don't back it up.

Where do those stats come from - they are not correct.

 

[G2]

LOL @ Luck

 

[NFLJUNKY]

That’s a projection at best. You have no idea if he will be an upgrade or not.

That’s akin to me calling Michael Gallup an upgrade over Dez Bryant.

Not really. Both the guys I spoke about were thought to be lottery picks. Gallop is a third round pick. Bryant was the 19th pick. Not quite the same thing. But that fact doesn’t stop most folks here for posting that Gallup is. We shall see.

 

[jterrell]

This is garbage and you know it
Every single team goes through injuries every year and ANY INDEPENDENT person would look at the eagles injuries and ours and would clearly say that the eagles lost a lot more than we did

If we had lost Dak, you would be the first one in here telling us "how can the cowboys be expected to win without their starting QB" yet the eagles lose their starting franchise QB and its no big deal , lol

You're making yourself look foolish arguing that we lost more resources than the eagles did
Of course your love for Garrett blinds you to the facts

You are a dolt.
It's really pretty simple.
Dallas lost it's best offensive player, defensive player and best special teamer.
It had it's best returning cover guy lost for 5 games and playing with a steel plate the rest.

And I have never once said I love Garrett. I really liked Wade Phillips personally; I merely accept Garrett as what he is, a good process guy and modern day MBA style head coach.
I haven't loved any Cowboys Coach since Landry.

 

[CPanther95]

Where do those stats come from - they are not correct.

Who cares, it proved the point.

 

[jterrell]

Sorry for the delay. But who was lost that may be a difference maker from last year? Robinson? We actually upgraded that spot. Sydney Jones slides right in. Or put Mills in the slot and Jones outside. And there are two other guys who have shown up this spring. I call that a net gain.
Curry? We are replacing his 2.5 sacks with Bennett and his 8.5 sacks add to that a much improved Barnett and again a net gain. Celeb/Burton? We signed Rogers from GB and drafted the best TEin the draft. For a team with suspect safety’s and a rookie MLB I think you should be worried.
Blount? We have Ajaye all off season and Clement after his 100 yards receiving in the SB. Plus we get Sproles back. Regardless of his production he still has to be accounted for. We upgrade WRs as well. Mike Wallace is a much better option than Smith. And we found out what a monster Alshon Jeffery is during the post season.
The plan is to drop older players and draft their replacements. But we should have another run in us this season. What teams would like to do is contend with their QB on rookie deals and hope by the time they have to jettison players he is strong enough to carry the team for the reload. The Pats have done that brilliantly. To a lesser degree GB has as well. N.O., And the Steelers have to.

It is completely within your right to feel that way.
It's most likely nonsense but that is quite OK. You are coming off a SB win and should be very optimistic.

But ...
I will offer a few notes.
PFF ranked DBs by team and scored the Eagles 1 spot BELOW Dallas.
As a note Patrick Robinson was BY FAR the Eagles highest graded CB last year.

Nickel cornerback: Patrick Robinson, 89.8

18. Philadelphia Eagles
Projected starting lineup:
Starting cornerback: Ronald Darby, 84.2 grade ---added note here that Darby is the buddy of Jameis caught up in BOTH his sexual assault stories. If the NFL views him an accessory they could suspend him as well.
Safety: Malcolm Jenkins, 84.1
Safety: Rodney McLeod, 79.4
Starting cornerback: Jalen Mills, 77.1
Nickel cornerback: Sidney Jones, 47.2 --Jones is a longer shot than the Cowboys Jaylon Smith. He's returning form injury after a very weak performance in a couple chances before being shut back down last year.

The loss of slot cornerback Patrick Robinson and the question marks his absence leaves cannot be understated. With all the draft picks in recent years at the corner position, no one besides Darby should be safe in their starting spot. The good news is that their is so much competition, the bad news is that none graded higher than Mills’ 77.1 overall grade a season ago.

17. Dallas Cowboys
Projected starting lineup:
Starting cornerback: Chidobe Awuzie, 81.7 grade
Safety: Jeff Heath, 80.8
Safety: Xavier Woods, 78.8
Starting cornerback: Byron Jones, 76.8
Nickel cornerback: Jourdan Lewis, 79.6

2017 was always going to have some growing pains with as many youngsters as the Cowboys had in their secondary, while 2018 though offers much more promise. Rookies Woods (78.8), Awuzie (81.7) and Lewis (79.6) all impressed when given a shot. If any or all improve on their rookie-season form, Dallas’ secondary could end up ranked much higher than 17th by the end of the season.


At TE you signed Rodgers to a vet min deal, lol. He may hold off Dallas to start because he can block a bit at least but he is not good. You lost a young, promising guy that signed for 4Y/32M.
And you lost a long-time pro to boot in Celek. The total TE depth chart has regressed. It cna bounce back if Dallas is any good but he is a rookie coming from a low level of college football. You saw Wentz year 1 versus year 2.

On the DL you lost Jernigan who was a starter 4-6 months. You lost a steady Vinny Curry and yes replaced him with a seeming upgrade... except Bennett has a FELONY arraignment scheduled in like a week.
The possibility of losing him to suspension looms very large.

From a Dallas Cowboys standpoint they aren't projected to be a title favorite by any means. They are young across the board.
They have young, ascending players in about 15 of the 22 starting positions.
But they have a ton of cap space going forward, and some young talented best of position type guys like Martin, Zeke, DLaw.

 

[CPanther95]

It is completely within your right to feel that way.
It's most likely nonsense but that is quite OK. You are coming off a SB win and should be very optimistic.

But ...
I will offer a few notes.
PFF ranked DBs by team and scored the Eagles 1 spot BELOW Dallas.
As a note Patrick Robinson was BY FAR the Eagles highest graded CB last year.

Nickel cornerback: Patrick Robinson, 89.8

18. Philadelphia Eagles
Projected starting lineup:
Starting cornerback: Ronald Darby, 84.2 grade ---added note here that Darby is the buddy of Jameis caught up in BOTH his sexual assault stories. If the NFL views him an accessory they could suspend him as well.
Safety: Malcolm Jenkins, 84.1
Safety: Rodney McLeod, 79.4
Starting cornerback: Jalen Mills, 77.1
Nickel cornerback: Sidney Jones, 47.2 --Jones is a longer shot than the Cowboys Jaylon Smith. He's returning form injury after a very weak performance in a couple chances before being shut back down last year.

The loss of slot cornerback Patrick Robinson and the question marks his absence leaves cannot be understated. With all the draft picks in recent years at the corner position, no one besides Darby should be safe in their starting spot. The good news is that their is so much competition, the bad news is that none graded higher than Mills’ 77.1 overall grade a season ago.

17. Dallas Cowboys
Projected starting lineup:
Starting cornerback: Chidobe Awuzie, 81.7 grade
Safety: Jeff Heath, 80.8
Safety: Xavier Woods, 78.8
Starting cornerback: Byron Jones, 76.8
Nickel cornerback: Jourdan Lewis, 79.6

2017 was always going to have some growing pains with as many youngsters as the Cowboys had in their secondary, while 2018 though offers much more promise. Rookies Woods (78.8), Awuzie (81.7) and Lewis (79.6) all impressed when given a shot. If any or all improve on their rookie-season form, Dallas’ secondary could end up ranked much higher than 17th by the end of the season.


At TE you signed Rodgers to a vet min deal, lol. He may hold off Dallas to start because he can block a bit at least but he is not good. You lost a young, promising guy that signed for 4Y/32M.
And you lost a long-time pro to boot in Celek. The total TE depth chart has regressed. It cna bounce back if Dallas is any good but he is a rookie coming from a low level of college football. You saw Wentz year 1 versus year 2.

On the DL you lost Jernigan who was a starter 4-6 months. You lost a steady Vinny Curry and yes replaced him with a seeming upgrade... except Bennett has a FELONY arraignment scheduled in like a week.
The possibility of losing him to suspension looms very large.

From a Dallas Cowboys standpoint they aren't projected to be a title favorite by any means. They are young across the board.
They have young, ascending players in about 15 of the 22 starting positions.
But they have a ton of cap space going forward, and some young talented best of position type guys like Martin, Zeke, DLaw.

So after all that, you're saying the Eagles should still win the NFC East?

 

[cml750]

I love how people prop up Wentz as the next greatest thing, while slighting Dak. The stats just don't back it up.

The biggest issue is one of them has a real NFL coach while the other one does not. If that remains a constant, Wentz will receive many more accolades while Dak will waste away his career just like his predecessor before him.

 

[visionary]

You are a dolt.
It's really pretty simple.
Dallas lost it's best offensive player, defensive player and best special teamer.
It had it's best returning cover guy lost for 5 games and playing with a steel plate the rest.

And I have never once said I love Garrett. I really liked Wade Phillips personally; I merely accept Garrett as what he is, a good process guy and modern day MBA style head coach.
I haven't loved any Cowboys Coach since Landry.

Lol, and you're a coach?
I pity the kids you coach
Making yourself look foolish once again

This is a QB DRIVEN LEAGUE

Let me repeat so that even the simpletons like you will grasp it

THIS IS A QB DRIVEN LEAGUE

Philly lost their franchise QB
That BY ITSELF is more than what we lost

If we had lost Dak Garrett lovers like yourself would be salivating at the opportunity to make that the 'obvious' excuse for his failure

On top of that they lost their starting LT, RB, LB and K

And still won the SB

Garrett would have gone into fetal position long ago

Yet you defend him
That is blind worship