Evaluating Dallas last four 40+ million contracts

[gimmesix]

I agree with most of what you said, especially the last line. This is why you don't give away your 3rd round draft pick like we did this year. Our team isn't unlucky, the people in charge make horrible decisions the vast majority of the time. Then we try to use the "Get more with less" mentality. Our team never fully rebuilds, it's just a vicious circle.

Most teams hit on two or three quality starters at most in a given draft. You can spend those picks drafting the replacements for your Pro Bowl-caliber players or upgrading other positions where there is no Pro Bowl talent.

Building a team is a combination of keeping the best players you've got and adding to that talent pool at other positions. Lee was riskier from that standpoint because of the health concerns and Dallas kept that in mind in drawing up the contract.

Having Lee on the team allowed Dallas to keep upgrading the offensive line and add a much needed RDE after letting Ware go. If Ryan Shazier had fallen to our pick, he would have been taken and we'd have linebacker depth to better absorb this loss BUT our offensive line would be weaker.

You can't have it both ways unless a team is able to hit on a majority of its draft picks each year, and by hit, I mean get quality starters out of it, not just contributors.

 

[ufcrules1]

Having Lee on the team allowed Dallas to keep upgrading the offensive line and add a much needed RDE after letting Ware go. If Ryan Shazier had fallen to our pick, he would have been taken and we'd have linebacker depth to better absorb this loss BUT our offensive line would be weaker.

You can't have it both ways unless a team is able to hit on a majority of its draft picks each year, and by hit, I mean get quality starters out of it, not just contributors.

Having Lee on the team didn't allow us to truly do anything other than lie to ourselves about what we really had in him. We had a guy who was great when he played but he was hurt all the time and you just couldn't count on him. I loved the Martin pick, that was a fantastic pick, but as much as I loved that pick, I couldn't stand the DL pick because we gave up our 3rd rounder on a team with a lot of holes and question mark players.

The way your team hits on more of it's picks is to actually draft all of the early round picks... not give them up like we did this year and years past. That lowers your chance of hitting.

What is the reason in your mind that our team has sucked for so long? I hope your answer isn't "bad luck".

 

[DandyDon1722]

Having Lee on the team didn't allow us to truly do anything other than lie to ourselves about what we really had in him. We had a guy who was great when he played but he was hurt all the time and you just couldn't count on him. I loved the Martin pick, that was a fantastic pick, but as much as I loved that pick, I couldn't stand the DL pick because we gave up our 3rd rounder on a team with a lot of holes and question mark players.

The way your team hits on more of it's picks is to actually draft all of the early round picks... not give them up like we did this year and years past. That lowers your chance of hitting.

What is the reason in your mind that our team has sucked for so long? I hope your answer isn't "bad luck".

Hard to argue however I think there are signs of a culture change. The Hatcher and Ware moves, although difficult were the right decisions and contrary to what we used to do. The emphasis on the offensive line is also a change in philosophy and I think the drafting and fee agent picks have been decent the past three years.

All that being said none of us will get the past 18 years back.

 

[ufcrules1]

Hard to argue however I think there are signs of a culture change. The Hatcher and Ware moves, although difficult were the right decisions and contrary to what we used to do. The emphasis on the offensive line is also a change in philosophy and I think the drafting and fee agent picks have been decent the past three years.

All that being said none of us will get the past 18 years back.

Yup, when we made the Hatcher and Ware moves and then took Martin in the first round of the draft. My first thought was holy crap, they are FINALLY doing things right and maybe Jerry is letting someone else make the decisions etc. Then, we traded up in the second round and gave up our 3rd rounder...I realized we didn't change much at all. We took DL for an immediate need position, instead of being prudent and maximizing the draft. Now we have to hope and pray DL blows us all away.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Here is the list of players who signed contracts for $40 million (or more) for Dallas since 2011. Is Dallas doing good job with their top heavy contract? Lets take look:

1. Tony Romo - $120 million 7 year contract. Signed 3/29/13. Productive player without any form of hardware. Reasons are numerous for lack of playoff success. Regardless of how you feel about the player...the contract is immovable.

2. Brandon Carr - $50 million 5 year contract. Signed 3/14/12. Flashes potential for certain stretches but largely has not lived up to his contract. Graded out as 74th out of 110 qualified CB last year (per pro football focus).

3. Sean Lee - $42 million 6 year contract. Signed 8/22/13. Fan favorite. Is everything you want in player: humble, hard-working, dominate at times. Unfortunately, Lee has missed about 30% of defensive snaps thru his career and now will miss entire 2014 season with ACL tear.

4. Jay Ratliff - $40 million 5 year contract. Signed 9/9/2011. Run-ins with owner, injury (maybe?) derailed his career in dallas. A complaint was filed for $10 million against Ratliff in march '14.

From this list:

* None have been named to pro-bowl after new contract.
* Two players on this list will not play a snap in 2014 for Cowboys (ratliff still counts 7 million against cap).

That is really disturbing. The best one of the bunch is Rony Tomo who half quarterbacked his team to ONE playoff win in his entire career. And he's headed to his mid-30s.

Brandon Carr made me laugh. What a disappointment he half been comminsuriate with his pay.

Poor Jerra. HIS HEART IS BIGGER THAN HIS BRAIN.

 

[Tex]

3. Sean Lee - $42 million 6 year contract. Signed 8/22/13. Fan favorite. Is everything you want in player: humble, hard-working, dominate at times. Unfortunately, Lee has missed about 30% of defensive snaps thru his career and now will miss entire 2014 season with ACL tear.
Exactly why his contract is laden with incentives and team friendly.

Team Friendly? Its 42 million with incentives guaranteed to get to to like 51 or 53 million based on playing time. You quoted a 42 million contract. There was nothing team friendly I saw in that 42 million deal for a guy injured all the time. Feel free to correct me. That 42 million is on the books. It can INCREASE if he stays healthy. That does not go down.

He will be paid this year just as if he started most of the games. The incentives if I recall right kick in if he starts more then 80% of the games. There is no penalty really for missing this year as he has already never hit 80% of the games. It may or may not make future incentives impossible to reach by missing this whole year depending on how the contract is worded if its based on a year by year basis or cumulative games played over the life of the contract.

But that 42 mil is on the books and doesnt have anything to do with incentives to decrease that amount as far as I can tell. It can only go up not down.

Tex

 

[perrykemp]

Team Friendly? Its 42 million with incentives guaranteed to get to to like 51 or 53 million based on playing time. You quoted a 42 million contract. There was nothing team friendly I saw in that 42 million deal for a guy injured all the time. Feel free to correct me. That 42 million is on the books. It can INCREASE if he stays healthy

Yes, that's right , they took a risk giving $42m to a guy with an injury history that looks like like (updated to now):

2014 (Cowboys): Projected to miss 16 games. Suffered ACL injury
2013 (Cowboys): Missed five games. Suffered hamstring injury Nov. 10 at New Orleans, missed two games; Suffered neck injury Dec. 9 at Chicago, missed three games.
2012 (Cowboys): Missed 10 games. Suffered toe injury Oct. 21 at Carolina.
2011 (Cowboys): Missed one game. Suffered a partially dislocated wrist Oct. 30 at Philadelphia, missed one game but returned and played most of the season with a cast/club for protection.
2010 (Cowboys): Missed two games. Hamstring injury.
2009 (Penn State): Missed three games with sprained knee.
2008 (Penn State): Missed his senior season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament suffered in non-contact drills in spring practice.

 

[ufcrules1]

Yes, that's right , they took a risk giving $42m to a guy with an injury history that looks like like (updated to now):

2014 (Cowboys): Projected to miss 16 games. Suffered ACL injury
2013 (Cowboys): Missed five games. Suffered hamstring injury Nov. 10 at New Orleans, missed two games; Suffered neck injury Dec. 9 at Chicago, missed three games.
2012 (Cowboys): Missed 10 games. Suffered toe injury Oct. 21 at Carolina.
2011 (Cowboys): Missed one game. Suffered a partially dislocated wrist Oct. 30 at Philadelphia, missed one game but returned and played most of the season with a cast/club for protection.
2010 (Cowboys): Missed two games. Hamstring injury.
2009 (Penn State): Missed three games with sprained knee.
2008 (Penn State): Missed his senior season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament suffered in non-contact drills in spring practice.

Wow.. thanks for posting that. It was worse than I remembered!

 

[birdwells1]

Romo is the only guy on that list I don't have a problem with. No rookie is coming in here and throwing 31 TDs so Romo has earned his money.

Dude plays with busted ribs, collapsed lung, herniated disks, and a host of other injuries. He has missed 1 game since the broken collarbone in 2010 if I remember correctly.

We also win 3 games max without him so I got no problem paying him

I'll take those 3 wins.

 

[mmillman]

Here is the list of players who signed contracts for $40 million (or more) for Dallas since 2011. Is Dallas doing good job with their top heavy contract? Lets take look:

1. Tony Romo - $120 million 7 year contract. Signed 3/29/13. Productive player without any form of hardware. Reasons are numerous for lack of playoff success. Regardless of how you feel about the player...the contract is immovable.

2. Brandon Carr - $50 million 5 year contract. Signed 3/14/12. Flashes potential for certain stretches but largely has not lived up to his contract. Graded out as 74th out of 110 qualified CB last year (per pro football focus).

3. Sean Lee - $42 million 6 year contract. Signed 8/22/13. Fan favorite. Is everything you want in player: humble, hard-working, dominate at times. Unfortunately, Lee has missed about 30% of defensive snaps thru his career and now will miss entire 2014 season with ACL tear.

4. Jay Ratliff - $40 million 5 year contract. Signed 9/9/2011. Run-ins with owner, injury (maybe?) derailed his career in dallas. A complaint was filed for $10 million against Ratliff in march '14.

From this list:

* None have been named to pro-bowl after new contract.
* Two players on this list will not play a snap in 2014 for Cowboys (ratliff still counts 7 million against cap).

Here is the list of players who signed contracts for $40 million (or more) for Dallas since 2011. Is Dallas doing good job with their top heavy contract? Lets take look:

1. Tony Romo - $120 million 7 year contract. Signed 3/29/13. Productive player without any form of hardware. Reasons are numerous for lack of playoff success. Regardless of how you feel about the player...the contract is immovable.

2. Brandon Carr - $50 million 5 year contract. Signed 3/14/12. Flashes potential for certain stretches but largely has not lived up to his contract. Graded out as 74th out of 110 qualified CB last year (per pro football focus).

3. Sean Lee - $42 million 6 year contract. Signed 8/22/13. Fan favorite. Is everything you want in player: humble, hard-working, dominate at times. Unfortunately, Lee has missed about 30% of defensive snaps thru his career and now will miss entire 2014 season with ACL tear.

4. Jay Ratliff - $40 million 5 year contract. Signed 9/9/2011. Run-ins with owner, injury (maybe?) derailed his career in dallas. A complaint was filed for $10 million against Ratliff in march '14.

From this list:

* None have been named to pro-bowl after new contract.
* Two players on this list will not play a snap in 2014 for Cowboys (ratliff still counts 7 million against cap).

Here is the list of players who signed contracts for $40 million (or more) for Dallas since 2011. Is Dallas doing good job with their top heavy contract? Lets take look:

1. Tony Romo - $120 million 7 year contract. Signed 3/29/13. Productive player without any form of hardware. Reasons are numerous for lack of playoff success. Regardless of how you feel about the player...the contract is immovable.

2. Brandon Carr - $50 million 5 year contract. Signed 3/14/12. Flashes potential for certain stretches but largely has not lived up to his contract. Graded out as 74th out of 110 qualified CB last year (per pro football focus).

3. Sean Lee - $42 million 6 year contract. Signed 8/22/13. Fan favorite. Is everything you want in player: humble, hard-working, dominate at times. Unfortunately, Lee has missed about 30% of defensive snaps thru his career and now will miss entire 2014 season with ACL tear.

4. Jay Ratliff - $40 million 5 year contract. Signed 9/9/2011. Run-ins with owner, injury (maybe?) derailed his career in dallas. A complaint was filed for $10 million against Ratliff in march '14.

From this list:

* None have been named to pro-bowl after new contract.
* Two players on this list will not play a snap in 2014 for Cowboys (ratliff still counts 7 million against cap).

 

[mmillman]

You can add both williams', Barber, Spencer, Austin to that list as bad contracts. On top of that add the salary cap penalties and you have a horrendous record of management.

 

[Direwolf63]

Somebody earlier asked the right question: what do we do with these guys?

Tyron Smith. Young with no injury history. Will want $10M+ per year.
Dez Bryant. Young but with some history of injuries (finger, hamstrings). Talks about a home town discount, but will probably take about $8M-$10M a year to sign
Demarco Murray. Excellent year last year, but has a long injury history.

Hypothetical: If you re-sign Smith and he gets an ACL, does that make it a bad contract?

Personally, I would resign Smith and Bryant long term and cross your fingers. There is always a risk when you sign anybody long term. That's the nature of the business.

I would let Demarco walk. RB's are easily replaceable, unless your Adrian Peterson.

 

[gimmesix]

What is the reason in your mind that our team has sucked for so long? I hope your answer isn't "bad luck".

Bad fans.

 

[gimmesix]

Yes, that's right , they took a risk giving $42m to a guy with an injury history that looks like like (updated to now):

2014 (Cowboys): Projected to miss 16 games. Suffered ACL injury
2013 (Cowboys): Missed five games. Suffered hamstring injury Nov. 10 at New Orleans, missed two games; Suffered neck injury Dec. 9 at Chicago, missed three games.
2012 (Cowboys): Missed 10 games. Suffered toe injury Oct. 21 at Carolina.
2011 (Cowboys): Missed one game. Suffered a partially dislocated wrist Oct. 30 at Philadelphia, missed one game but returned and played most of the season with a cast/club for protection.
2010 (Cowboys): Missed two games. Hamstring injury.
2009 (Penn State): Missed three games with sprained knee.
2008 (Penn State): Missed his senior season with a torn anterior cruciate ligament suffered in non-contact drills in spring practice.

His first two seasons as a pro weren't that bad overall with a total of three games missed. Then comes the 10-gamer followed by a five-gamer.

Based on that, I don't think it was realistic to suddenly believe he's going to tear an ACL and miss the entire season. I do think it was realistic to believe he would miss some games because he had each year (and I think his contract was structured for that).

 

[ufcrules1]

Bad fans.

yeah, that is what I thought.

 

[ufcrules1]

I'll take those 3 wins.

Same here.. then maybe we can truly rebuild!

 

[CyberB0b]

Not surprising, considering our cap situation the last few years and back to back historically bad defenses.

 

[Kaiser]

and if any of those contracts weren't given and someone went on to have success elsewhere, jerruh would get bashed for not paying

And I'm guessing there would have been a few threads about the Phil Costa-type that was replacing the player on the field because "Jethro was too cheap" to play the player.

 

[Cowboy06]

Well, he stands to lose $1.5M because he didn't play 80% of the defensive snaps last year and he certainly won't this year.

Thanks for the info. Interesting to say the least.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The only contract of the four I have out & out disdain over was the Ratliff contract.

I thought the Carr contract was high but I can understand why it was done.

No problems at all with Romo's deal.

I don't have as much of a problem with Lee's contract. It's a crapshoot with someone that has an injury history but shows a high level of talent.