Fan Zone or Cynical Zone

[TheDude]

It's not about agreeing. Disagreement and conversation is good when it's constructive. Far too often the same people are destructive. Or their delivery sucks.

This is an honest question

How can a post be destructive? and destructive to what? As long as it meets the spirit of the gernal forum rules - words and opinions are just that

There are some people who put a great deal of effort into their posts, and by in large, I think the majority appreciate that. But being the anonymous internet, when you put yourself out there for praise, you have to be prepared for criticism. Either you let it roll off your back or you dont.

This isnt an opinion on whose right or wrong - it is nature of the discussion on this medium.

The ignore feature is highly underused by some people. I personally would never use it, because it is a slippery slope.

 

[casmith07]

This is an honest question

How can a post be destructive? and destructive to what? As long as it meets the spirit of the gernal forum rules - words and opinions are just that

There are some people who put a great deal of effort into their posts, and by in large, I think the majority appreciate that. But being the anonymous internet, when you put yourself out there for praise, you have to be prepared for criticism. Either you let it roll off your back or you dont.

This isnt an opinion on whose right or wrong - it is nature of the discussion on this medium.

The ignore feature is highly underused by some people. I personally would never use it, because it is a slippery slope.

Destructive to a healthy environment for discussion, agreement, and even disagreement.

There are multiple examples of me disagreeing with someone, even people whom I agree with often like xwalker.

We're able to do so in a way that prompts constructive dialogue and stimulates thought.

The opposite can be destructive. Needless or purposeful comments meant to draw the ire of the majority of individuals - even those who may even agree with the premise! - is destructive.

Many of us don't care for Jerry Jones' sound bytes. I don't. But doing a drive by "20 years, Jerry sux" post will still piss off even the people who don't care for Jerry because of the crappy delivery and complete destruction of any actual discussion occurring in the thread.

That's how posts can be destructive.

 

[Hoov]

I've been doing some thinking about this message board of late, wondering how much enjoyment I actually get from it. In years past, it has been a great source for team information throughout the year but lately it has become more a source of negativity and cynicism. I'm not gonna lie, its not the best of times for Cowboys fans. I'm not happy with the early indicators of how this season is going to go, but I'm optimistic that with the return of a few key players like Melton, the defense can at least hold its own. I've done my best when posting, to put a positive spin on things because what's the point of spewing negativity? Is it going to make Jerry Jones step down as GM or sell the team? Is it going to inspire the players to actually play better? What negativity on this board does, is it turns off the average Cowboys fan and turns them away from this message board.

I've been considering taking my ball and going home. Leaving his board, because I'm just not getting the things I should from this forum. Am I wrong? Am I expecting too much from people who claim to be fans of America's Team? I think we're capable of bringing more to the table here. Is it easy to be positive when this team looks to be destined for another season of mediocrity? Of course not. But anyone can be a fan when times are good.

Just realize that 99% of the posters on this or any other message board don't know much more than you do as to why the franchise makes the decisions they do or what is going on with this team behind closed doors.


In addition to that other posters are getting the same news reports you get and watch the same games and plays as you.

Some do have the all 22 film and some are willing to watch the game over and over to evaluate what actually happened. And of those willing to do that - there are some that have a deeper understanding or ability to diagnose what is happening because they have played the game, coached the game or for some other reason have advanced knowledge as to nfl football and what is going on around the league.

I think you can figure out who those posters are.

At that point you can decide to ignore the others and then you will be able to maximize the good that is availBle here without getting bothered or bummed out.

 

[Derekmtl85]

I try and ignore the same bunch of posters who ONLY post negative crap all day long, and still manage to get 20-30K messages.

This site still has many amazing posters who've actually taught me a lot about football.

 

[honyock]

I've been doing some thinking about this message board of late, wondering how much enjoyment I actually get from it. In years past, it has been a great source for team information throughout the year but lately it has become more a source of negativity and cynicism. I'm not gonna lie, its not the best of times for Cowboys fans. I'm not happy with the early indicators of how this season is going to go, but I'm optimistic that with the return of a few key players like Melton, the defense can at least hold its own. I've done my best when posting, to put a positive spin on things because what's the point of spewing negativity? Is it going to make Jerry Jones step down as GM or sell the team? Is it going to inspire the players to actually play better? What negativity on this board does, is it turns off the average Cowboys fan and turns them away from this message board.

I've been considering taking my ball and going home. Leaving his board, because I'm just not getting the things I should from this forum. Am I wrong? Am I expecting too much from people who claim to be fans of America's Team? I think we're capable of bringing more to the table here. Is it easy to be positive when this team looks to be destined for another season of mediocrity? Of course not. But anyone can be a fan when times are good.

As someone who does use the Ignore function, I'd encourage you to try that before leaving the board. It's made my experience here better the past few months since I started using it. I currently only have 6-7 posters on ignore, but that cuts down on the bombardment of repetitive posts, bombing thread after thread with the same off-topic complaints, posts that turn the subject from football to complaining about other posters, etc.

I also really disagree with the posters who say or imply that using the Ignore button means that you're cutting off dissenting opinions. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you dislike the repetitive Realist posts, and you ignore the 5-10 most repetitive of the lot, then that only leaves dozens and dozens and dozens that are still saying the same things and making the same points, only less often. Same with the Homers - block a few of them and you still get dozens and dozens showing optimism. It's not ignoring arguments. It's ignoring posters who are damaging your enjoyment of the site.

I do agree with you that this past few months the tone of the site has changed, pretty dramatically at times. To each his own...some people get something out of that tone, and that's their business. I show up more for the information than the personal complaints and shots back and forth, so Ignore has definitely worked for me.

 

[CF74]

This board is 80% mindless homers. If it is too negative maybe you need meds.

I was gonna say often I believe they should change the "Fan Zone" to "Homer Zone," but whateves....

 

[cajuncocoa]

I've been doing some thinking about this message board of late, wondering how much enjoyment I actually get from it. In years past, it has been a great source for team information throughout the year but lately it has become more a source of negativity and cynicism. I'm not gonna lie, its not the best of times for Cowboys fans. I'm not happy with the early indicators of how this season is going to go, but I'm optimistic that with the return of a few key players like Melton, the defense can at least hold its own. I've done my best when posting, to put a positive spin on things because what's the point of spewing negativity? Is it going to make Jerry Jones step down as GM or sell the team? Is it going to inspire the players to actually play better? What negativity on this board does, is it turns off the average Cowboys fan and turns them away from this message board.

I've been considering taking my ball and going home. Leaving his board, because I'm just not getting the things I should from this forum. Am I wrong? Am I expecting too much from people who claim to be fans of America's Team? I think we're capable of bringing more to the table here. Is it easy to be positive when this team looks to be destined for another season of mediocrity? Of course not. But anyone can be a fan when times are good.

Being a fan doesn't mean I have to check my brain at the door. I live in the real world, not the fantasy world. I love this franchise, but this team isn't going to win any championships anytime soon.

 

[Bluestang]

What I find the most enjoyable aspect of this is watching people positioning themselves as experts here.

Using jargon they hear tossed out during games.

Watching a pay for view recap that allows one to resee plays over and over so they can write up important sounding posts of evaluation.

People assembling stats and expressing how this plus that means this over here when it could very well not mean any of that.

We are fans, watching a game on TV - for the most part - listening to semi-qualified announcers, reading comments from the press, and living off the information - which is actually disinformation - the team decides is worthy of making public.

I have no answers, just what I see juxtaposed against what i have seen in the past. Does it look familiar? Well, kinda. Then it must mean this.

I am wrong far more than I am right. But I have an opinion. Like everyone else. No better, no worse.

But the truth is, as this team wanders in the wilderness of 8-8, the fan base will become more and more disillusioned with the outcome.

Well some of those folks are engineers, they are smart people.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Dallas has been a national team....I.e. people all over the country follow them. If - IF you look objectively at Cleveland, Miami, Oakland, they were national teams when they were elite and won several NFL titles....its been a long time since these teams have been any good - who follows them?

Not if but WHEN a new generation questions the Cowboys, you can add them to the has been list above. If you REALLY want the Cowboys to win, why would you keep sending money to the pointy-haired owner? That's being an addict, not a fan. And its not swearing them off - just demanding change - real change. Then send the money again. With any other product its a no-brainer.

I can think of something more "hopeless" than stop paying Jerry. A bunch of tattered patriots in 1776, then 1836 fought for freedom and beat the odds.

 

[TheDude]

As someone who does use the Ignore function, I'd encourage you to try that before leaving the board. It's made my experience here better the past few months since I started using it. I currently only have 6-7 posters on ignore, but that cuts down on the bombardment of repetitive posts, bombing thread after thread with the same off-topic complaints, posts that turn the subject from football to complaining about other posters, etc.

I also really disagree with the posters who say or imply that using the Ignore button means that you're cutting off dissenting opinions. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you dislike the repetitive Realist posts, and you ignore the 5-10 most repetitive of the lot, then that only leaves dozens and dozens and dozens that are still saying the same things and making the same points, only less often. Same with the Homers - block a few of them and you still get dozens and dozens showing optimism. It's not ignoring arguments. It's ignoring posters who are damaging your enjoyment of the site.

I do agree with you that this past few months the tone of the site has changed, pretty dramatically at times. To each his own...some people get something out of that tone, and that's their business. I show up more for the information than the personal complaints and shots back and forth, so Ignore has definitely worked for me.

To each his own, but I know the avatars and names I dont particular find enjoyable, so its easy to skim those.

That still doesnt mean that their every post is unworthy of being read. Typically, you can tell what threads will be good/bad by the title - or later on by the pages

 

[TheDude]

Destructive to a healthy environment for discussion, agreement, and even disagreement.

There are multiple examples of me disagreeing with someone, even people whom I agree with often like xwalker.

We're able to do so in a way that prompts constructive dialogue and stimulates thought.

The opposite can be destructive. Needless or purposeful comments meant to draw the ire of the majority of individuals - even those who may even agree with the premise! - is destructive.

Many of us don't care for Jerry Jones' sound bytes. I don't. But doing a drive by "20 years, Jerry sux" post will still piss off even the people who don't care for Jerry because of the crappy delivery and complete destruction of any actual discussion occurring in the thread.

That's how posts can be destructive.

If I stipulate that your point happens, Can you stipulate that some posts are there to bait those "negative" posters? I can give you many examples of that but you know what I am saying.

People get invested in their opinions and hubris is quite rampant. And @TwoDeep3 has a point, the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the more polarizing the fanbase opinion will become. And the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the harder the "homer" position is to maintain and defend when other teams are achieving. The flip will occur if Dallas went on a NE tear of the AFC East for the past 13 years.

That aside, seeing a "Jerry sux" may be repetitive - but some people cascade the justification back to their opinion of "ultimate root cause." Now if you are talking about a great Dez catch and someone chirps Jerry sux, that is trollish.
However, after any positive statement, seeing posts like "That can't be, I read on the zone that [insert suck, 0-16, etc here]" ads nothing and is trolling as well. So if there is a movement for a moratorium on one style, there should be on the other. (I dont advocate either moratorium)

All that said, "destructive" is still a little melodramatic.

 

[dreghorn2]

If I stipulate that your point happens, Can you stipulate that some posts are there to bait those "negative" posters? I can give you many examples of that but you know what I am saying.

People get invested in their opinions and hubris is quite rampant. And @TwoDeep3 has a point, the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the more polarizing the fanbase opinion will become. And the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the harder the "homer" position is to maintain and defend when other teams are achieving. The flip will occur if Dallas went on a NE tear of the AFC East for the past 13 years.

That aside, seeing a "Jerry sux" may be repetitive - but some people cascade the justification back to their opinion of "ultimate root cause." Now if you are talking about a great Dez catch and someone chirps Jerry sux, that is trollish.
However, after any positive statement, seeing posts like "That can't be, I read on the zone that [insert suck, 0-16, etc here]" ads nothing and is trolling as well. So if there is a movement for a moratorium on one style, there should be on the other. (I dont advocate either moratorium)

All that said, "destructive" is still a little melodramatic.

Nice post, well said.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Well some of those folks are engineers, they are smart people.

Being smart isn't the requisite here. There are a whole host of smart people on this site. Writing skills may be another issue, but for the most part everyone here operates with the written word. That takes time and the inclination to do so, and the ability to frame a position with a common language.

Now we might all believe CCBoy speaks Klingon. But there is a method to his madness.

So do not take away that I believe these people are stupid.

I know nothing about being an engineer. I can't even stack blocks that won't fall. So in that realm I am ignorant. Being ignorant is not a slur. It merely is stating a fact. I know nothing about that subject.

I do know some things which an engineer might not know. So here we have quid pro quo in a sense. We both are ignorant in areas of knowledge.

But watching a film of a game and using buzz words doesn't make an engineer a coach or scout anymore than me playing with Legos makes me an engineer.

As a side note I suggest the Lego people are missing a windfall by not including pieces that look like boobs and having Lego porn. Just a thought.

To sum up, I'm certain everyone here knows a little bit about this game. But the combined intelligence of what makes up pro football on this board isn't enough to keep a job as a water boy in this league.

Hyperbole, yes. But you get my point.

This place is a spot where we all measure our knowledge of this game in regard to others.

It is truly the seven blind men and the elephant fable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

 

[DallasEast]

I've done my best when posting, to put a positive spin on things because what's the point of spewing negativity?

But anyone can be a fan when times are good.

Here is something for your personal consideration. People are people. That reads as simplistic but it is nonetheless true. Different people deal with frustration in different ways. Some people can deflect frustration without effort. Other people can acknowledge frustration and take it for what it is. And there are certain people who cannot deal with frustration at all. That's why sites like Cowboyszone are so valuable. They allow certain people to vent, thus allowing frustration to feel manageable within their daily lives.

Of course, the actual venting does not relent because certain people lack self-control for assimilating frustration. That is the motivation behind the negative repetitiveness. It is necessary for something outside of their own self-control to intervene and curtail the source of their frustration for them. In this case, that something is for the franchise to become a perennial NFL power once more. It is a desire that all Cowboys fans share, but it is a psychological necessity for certain people's inner coping mechanism. This is an unfortunate truth, so please reconsider leaving the site. Use the ignore feature. Do not think of it as a method of silencing site commentary. Think of it as a way of enhancing your site experiences without infringing on others' uncontrollable daily venting. I sincerely believe you would enjoy that option more than leaving.

 

[honyock]

To each his own, but I know the avatars and names I dont particular find enjoyable, so its easy to skim those.

That still doesnt mean that their every post is unworthy of being read. Typically, you can tell what threads will be good/bad by the title - or later on by the pages

I did that for a long time. But I found that when the signal to noise ratio for a particular poster got so out of whack, that whatever content they provided just wasn't worth it anymore. There are always plenty of other posters who'll make or repeat the same points.

 

[Derekmtl85]

I was gonna say often I believe they should change the "Fan Zone" to "Homer Zone," but whateves....

You mean, a bunch of fans on a TEAM forum don't just spew out total negative crap all the time? Shocking!

I don't see many homers on here, just people who'd rather have hope than being negative and cranky 24/7.

 

[casmith07]

If I stipulate that your point happens, Can you stipulate that some posts are there to bait those "negative" posters? I can give you many examples of that but you know what I am saying.

People get invested in their opinions and hubris is quite rampant. And @TwoDeep3 has a point, the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the more polarizing the fanbase opinion will become. And the longer it takes to achieve tangible results, the harder the "homer" position is to maintain and defend when other teams are achieving. The flip will occur if Dallas went on a NE tear of the AFC East for the past 13 years.

That aside, seeing a "Jerry sux" may be repetitive - but some people cascade the justification back to their opinion of "ultimate root cause." Now if you are talking about a great Dez catch and someone chirps Jerry sux, that is trollish.
However, after any positive statement, seeing posts like "That can't be, I read on the zone that [insert suck, 0-16, etc here]" ads nothing and is trolling as well. So if there is a movement for a moratorium on one style, there should be on the other. (I dont advocate either moratorium)

All that said, "destructive" is still a little melodramatic.

I don't think you have to simply hinge your attitude or the delivery of your opinion on a forum to the successes or failures of a sports franchise.

In the years we went 13-3 and 11-5 en route to winning the division, dissenters either found something else to nitpick to torpedo good discussion, or they were silent altogether. I think that the latter is more damning evidence that suggests that they visit message boards solely to troll or torpedo good discussion.

Lastly, destructive is only melodramatic if you are one to dramatize or sensationalize words absent the ability to read with a critical eye towards context.

All of this being said -- this kind of discussion we've had for four posts is precisely the kind of disagreement that SHOULD occur on this board, and it doesn't. Good talk -- I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Idgit]

I'm gonna avoid the specific personality stuff in this thread, but I will say that I've got a good friend who's a Minny fan who's lurked here this offseason. Keep in mind that MIN's another proud organization that's fallen on hard times here recently--harder than the times we've had in Dallas in a lot of ways. His one question for me after reading the board for a few days was "why are you're fans so negative?" His follow up statement was "it's kind of embarrassing."

I explained the four year playoff draught, and the Cowboy fan entitlement thing, but even then I couldn't shake the feeling that it was a really weak explanation. I'm not sure how else to try to explain it.

There is such a thing as constructive criticism. It really does exist. I've seen it.

 

[Blackspider214]

What do you expect from a franchise that has won just one single playoff game since the 96 season and has missed the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years?

 

[Idgit]

What do you expect from a franchise that has won just one single playoff game since the 96 season and has missed the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years?

A little more self-respect from it's fans, overall.

Frustration is one thing. Constructive criticism is another. The entitlement and the constant irrational negativity, though, is just embarrassing. I know not everybody shares my opinion, but for my part, it makes me cringe.

We've got dozens of unhappy posters who post critically in the majority of the threads who do it was intelligence and grace, too. I like reading those posts. I actually try to make some of those posts myself re: the areas of the team I think merit criticism. The team deserves a lot of criticism and much of it is thought provoking and interesting to debate. But the snarky reflexive dishonest want-to-be-appreciated negativity is just unfortunate noise in my book and, sadly, it gets rolled up with the more legitimate criticism to form one side of the polarity you get on the site betweens homers and 'realists.' It's really hard to address the criticism without getting sucked into the tar-pit, unfortunately.