Final Mock Rds 1 thru 4

[Charles]

Well, I don't think they're sacks are coming from the "middle" per se. What happens is that Wade will "stunt" his OLBs inside. With the Guard missing them and the End tying up the Tackle. That's just being creative, but it doesn't mean your inside guys are rushing. His ILBs do rush some, but it's not a whole lot.

The middle is the middle bro........the stats are irrefutable.

If 67% of Merrimans sacks and 77% of Phillips sacks are coming from attacking the QB up the middle then facts speak for themselves.

Wade took his best athletes on the Lbacking core and sent them on the shortest route to the QB.

Lack of creativity is the reason most of our defensive players are happy Parcells is gone. They feel there talents werent are being exploited.

It doesn't hurt to take a look within and realize that some of these pass rushing issues can be resolved without having to throw another 1st day pick at defensive front seven. We've used three 1st RD pick, two 2nd RD picks, a 4th RD pick, resigned Bradie and sign Ayodele and Ferguson. Sooner or later you gotta dance with the girl you brought to the prom.

Again, I don't think this draft class is weak at OLB/DE types. I think it's absolutely stacked in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. At least there's more value there than usual. We could get anyone of the following in the 2nd or 3rd or even later:

Robison, Brian
Bazuin, Dan
Crowder, Tim
Ford, Jacob
Woodley, LaMarr
Moore, Jay
Ah You, CJ
Abiamiri, Victor
Moses, Quentin

The same can be said for WR and Safety and according to the player ranking safeties and WR are ranked higher than most of these LBers.

It's funny you say that because the Chargers had one of the worst secondaries in the league.

That's why I want us to draft to the strenght of the draft CBs and Safeties...........Defensive backs baby!!!:

 

[VACowboy]

I agree that Watkins played well after a rather bumpy start but I would be willing to draft Nelson or Merriweather on the assumption that they would play much better than well. Unless you prefer "well" to a potentially dynamic and game-changing playmaker.

I agree with this philosophy, especially this year when the team has no real holes to fill. I apply it to the linebacker position as well, though. If Spencer or Robison or whoever is at the top of the board when we pick, then that's who we take, whether he's a DB or WR or not. I don't want to pass on playmakers because we already have someone on the roster who plays the position.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think, this year, you pick the guy at the top of your board in each round, and at #22 that could be a corner, safety, Joe Staley, Marshawn Lynch or Anthony Spencer.

I disagree that there are no players in this draft who could have an instant impact. I think Merriweather, Nelson, Weddle, Spencer and Robison would all elevate the level of the defense. Safeties aren't the second citizens they used to be. Rethinking my mock, I'd still take Spencer at #22 but maybe select Weddle instead of Wilson at #53.

There are two schools of thought on the pressure/coverage issue. I come down squarely on the pressure side. I believe that had we put more pressure on QBs last year, our DBs would have played a lot better as well. I would much rather have a disruptive front-seven than a defensive backfield that covers until someone gets to the QB. And I would draft accordingly.

Oh I agree with you to a certain extent... pressure is important-- and we do not have enough pressure players.

That being said throw in the tape of the Pats vs. the Panthers or the Eagles in their respective Super Bowls. You'll see two high-pressure defenses beaten with 3-step drops. That's where coverage ability comes into play. As a matter of fact rewatch the Dallas vs. Detroit game and you'll see the same.

 

[VACowboy]

Oh I agree with you to a certain extent... pressure is important-- and we do not have enough pressure players.

That being said throw in the tape of the Pats vs. the Panthers or the Eagles in their respective Super Bowls. You'll see two high-pressure defenses beaten with 3-step drops. That's where coverage ability comes into play. As a matter of fact rewatch the Dallas vs. Detroit game and you'll see the same.

Yep. There's no arguing that coverage isn't important as well. I just think the Cowboys are lacking pressure a lot more than coverage. That said, if Jeff Ireland says Nelson or Merriweather is the best player on the board when we pick, he's the guy I want.

 

[theogt]

The middle is the middle bro........the stats are irrefutable.

If 67% of Merrimans sacks and 77% of Phillips sacks are coming from attacking the QB up the middle then facts speak for themselves.

Wade took his best athletes on the Lbacking core and sent them on the shortest route to the QB.

Lack of creativity is the reason most of our defensive players are happy Parcells is gone. They feel there talents werent are being exploited.

It doesn't hurt to take a look within and realize that some of these pass rushing issues can be resolved without having to throw another 1st day pick at defensive front seven. We've used three 1st RD pick, two 2nd RD picks, a 4th RD pick, resigned Bradie and sign Ayodele and Ferguson. Sooner or later you gotta dance with the girl you brought to the prom.

They're still outside linebackers. They simply stunt inside. Yes, it comes up the middle, but I'm not sure what this has to do at all with us having little depth at outside linebacker.

The same can be said for WR and Safety and according to the player ranking safeties and WR are ranked higher than most of these LBers.

I think the same could be said for WR, but no Safety. Most of the quality safeties will be off the board by the early 2nd round. A couple stragglers could last into the 3rd, but not much. I think we'll either pick a LB in the 1st or 3rd and a WR in either the 2nd or 3rd.

That's why I want us to draft to the strenght of the draft CBs and Safeties...........Defensive backs baby!!!:

Huh? The point was that a better pass-rush = better secondary. Despite having one of the worst secondaries in the league, the Chargers still had respectable pass-defense.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Excellent discussion guys. I'm going to go with Charles on this one. I just think that the talent at S, CB, and WR is better in the first three rounds than at OLB. We could always try to pick up an extra OLB in June if one is on the market.

You're right that this is an excellent discussion. Kudos to everyone involved.


I'm betting that another LB will be a first day choice only because the biggest defensive need, NT, doesn't appear to have any real first day prospects unless Branch drops to #22.

The LB I'm betting on right now is Tim Shaw. A steal if available in the 3rd round but the 2nd wouldn't surprise me. He's a guy that scouts are talking about but fans don't seem to be. He was overshadowed two years ago playing MLB between two probable first rounders in Posluzsny and Conner then played DE last year. He put up impressive numbers at the combine, running in the 4.4s if I remember correctly. He's a pretty good athlete who ranks (or did at one time) in the top ten of all time high school rushing leaders.

As witnessed by the success of Edwards in his scheme, Phillips doesn't seem to care if a LB is a certain weight, but whether or not they can play.

 

[theogt]

You're right that this is an excellent discussion. Kudos to everyone involved.

I'll try not to ruin it.

I'm betting that another LB will be a first day choice only because the biggest defensive need, NT, doesn't appear to have any real first day prospects unless Branch drops to #22.

The LB I'm betting on right now is Tim Shaw. A steal if available in the 3rd round but the 2nd wouldn't surprise me. He's a guy that scouts are talking about but fans don't seem to be. He was overshadowed two years ago playing MLB between two probable first rounders in Posluzsny and Conner then played DE last year. He put up impressive numbers at the combine, running in the 4.4s if I remember correctly. He's a pretty good athlete who ranks (or did at one time) in the top ten of all time high school rushing leaders.

As witnessed by the success of Edwards in his scheme, Phillips doesn't seem to care if a LB is a certain weight, but whether or not they can play.

I certainly agree that Phillips likes the Shaw-type ILBs, which is what makes me think he'll move Burnett inside. I think athletically there's not much that would separate Shaw and Burnett. Then, of course, there's the talk about Carpenter playing inside as well. So these two things make me think we won't be drafting an ILB.

It's entirely possible, of course. They may want to keep Burnett and Carp on the outside because of depth, particularly if none of the OLB/DEs we're targeting are available at our picks (or a better option comes along), but I really see them both as ILBs -- always have.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You're right that this is an excellent discussion. Kudos to everyone involved.


I'm betting that another LB will be a first day choice only because the biggest defensive need, NT, doesn't appear to have any real first day prospects unless Branch drops to #22.

The LB I'm betting on right now is Tim Shaw. A steal if available in the 3rd round but the 2nd wouldn't surprise me. He's a guy that scouts are talking about but fans don't seem to be. He was overshadowed two years ago playing MLB between two probable first rounders in Posluzsny and Conner then played DE last year. He put up impressive numbers at the combine, running in the 4.4s if I remember correctly. He's a pretty good athlete who ranks (or did at one time) in the top ten of all time high school rushing leaders.

As witnessed by the success of Edwards in his scheme, Phillips doesn't seem to care if a LB is a certain weight, but whether or not they can play.

I dunno Stan...

I just can't see us drafting an inside LB. I think the much greater need is at OLB... and if that is taken care of then Carp could be moved inside if necessary.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I dunno Stan...

I just can't see us drafting an inside LB. I think the much greater need is at OLB... and if that is taken care of then Carp could be moved inside if necessary.

I'm not sure that Shaw projects solely as an ILB. He did play DE for a year and is around 240.

But I'm really thinking that Phillips is going to be looking for versatility and someone with speed who can play LB in the nickel since everyone struggled so badly with that last year and can play special teams.

That would be more valuable to this defense than another DE/LB tweener who'd never see the field unless there's an injury.

I really think that Jones and company think this team is a legitimate SB contender and are going to be looking for first day players who have a real chance at playing time. The only spots on defense a pick has a good chance of seeing the field barring injury is a rotational NT and a nickel LB and I'm thinking those areas will be addressed with players who also have some potential for the future. It's the theory I used to guess the Fasano pick last year a month before the draft.

Shaw fits that description in my mind as does Branch if he slides to #22.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

But I'm really thinking that Phillips is going to be looking for versatility and someone with speed who can play LB in the nickel since everyone struggled so badly with that last year and can play special teams.

Stan I'm not sure that's a fair statement to Burnett and Carp since it was James that manned the nickel for virtually the entire season. Did James suck? Yes. But Burnett, giving his background, could be a fine nickel LB in my opinion. He was a decent cover guy at Tennessee.

That would be more valuable to this defense than another DE/LB tweener who'd never see the field unless there's an injury.

But we seen what happened if we lose just one of our two legit pass rushers... it was ugly. I think I would stop breathing if I had to contemplate Ware missing a big chunk of the season-- and another ILB isn't going to ease the pain.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Stan I'm not sure that's a fair statement to Burnett and Carp since it was James that manned the nickel for virtually the entire season. Did James suck? Yes. But Burnett, giving his background, could be a fine nickel LB in my opinion. He was a decent cover guy at Tennessee.



But we seen what happened if we lose just one of our two legit pass rushers... it was ugly. I think I would stop breathing if I had to contemplate Ware missing a big chunk of the season-- and another ILB isn't going to ease the pain.

Burnett struggled badly in coverage as the nickel LB last year. James struggled in coverage from the base 3-4 and Fowler struggled from the goalline package. Maybe it wasn't the players but the scheme, I don't know but I do know that LB coverage was the single biggest weakness for Dallas last year, even worse than safety coverage, and that's an area that needs addressed before another pressure player to ride the bench.


And if Ware misses any significant time, yes, the rush will struggle but Dalllas could get the top 3 OLB prospects from this draft and that wouldn't change. Ware's don't come along every draft.

Ellis is the best backup at any position on defense that Dallas has.

I'm not a huge Ferguson fan, but could imagine if he was out for an extended period? What about Newman or Williams?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Burnett struggled badly in coverage as the nickel LB last year. James struggled in coverage from the base 3-4 and Fowler struggled from the goalline package. Maybe it wasn't the players but the scheme, I don't know but I do know that LB coverage was the single biggest weakness for Dallas last year, even worse than safety coverage, and that's an area that needs addressed before another pressure player to ride the bench.


And if Ware misses any significant time, yes, the rush will struggle but Dalllas could get the top 3 OLB prospects from this draft and that wouldn't change. Ware's don't come along every draft.

Ellis is the best backup at any position on defense that Dallas has.

I'm not a huge Ferguson fan, but could imagine if he was out for an extended period? What about Newman or Williams?

Well you have me going there Stan until you mentioned Williams...

 

[theogt]

Burnett struggled badly in coverage as the nickel LB last year. James struggled in coverage from the base 3-4 and Fowler struggled from the goalline package. Maybe it wasn't the players but the scheme, I don't know but I do know that LB coverage was the single biggest weakness for Dallas last year, even worse than safety coverage, and that's an area that needs addressed before another pressure player to ride the bench.

I remember Burnett biting on that one play against Philly, but other than I dont' remember him being a problem.

 

[Charles]

I'm not sure that Shaw projects solely as an ILB. He did play DE for a year and is around 240.

But I'm really thinking that Phillips is going to be looking for versatility and someone with speed who can play LB in the nickel since everyone struggled so badly with that last year and can play special teams.

That would be more valuable to this defense than another DE/LB tweener who'd never see the field unless there's an injury.

I really think that Jones and company think this team is a legitimate SB contender and are going to be looking for first day players who have a real chance at playing time. The only spots on defense a pick has a good chance of seeing the field barring injury is a rotational NT and a nickel LB and I'm thinking those areas will be addressed with players who also have some potential for the future. It's the theory I used to guess the Fasano pick last year a month before the draft.

Shaw fits that description in my mind as does Branch if he slides to #22.

Excellent points Stan

 

[Charles]

Stan I'm not sure that's a fair statement to Burnett and Carp since it was James that manned the nickel for virtually the entire season. Did James suck? Yes. But Burnett, giving his background, could be a fine nickel LB in my opinion. He was a decent cover guy at Tennessee.



But we seen what happened if we lose just one of our two legit pass rushers... it was ugly. I think I would stop breathing if I had to contemplate Ware missing a big chunk of the season-- and another ILB isn't going to ease the pain.

Mike don't you ever bring that up again That would be a disaster.

I think Ware is going to be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate.

Excellent discussion