Five 12-4 Teams

[Kevinicus]

Records against the other 12-4 teams:

Dallas 1-0
Sea 1-1
NE 1-1
GB 1-1
Den 0-2

Dallas is the only one that doesn't get a bye. Aren't tie breakers great?

 

[StarMan2112]

NFL needs to take a look at tiebreakers. Head-to-head should trump conference record giving us the 2 seed and Seattle the 3.

 

[Red Dragon]

Only four teams can get a bye. but yeah that's unfortunate.

 

[jazzcat22]

Nothing will change, but yes seems strange that head to head isn't the first tie breaker. But I can understand why it isn't. Should be looked as a body of entire effort and not one game should be the difference maker.

They did change this up from the way it was years ago. When one tie breaker was used, they reverted to another, and head to head was up there. Not sure when or why that was changed.

Seems not right to us for now, but what if it was reversed, and we got the a bye, but lost head to head with one of those teams, we would be saying the system is fair because we got a bye or even HFA if that was the case.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

People need to just spend a few hours reading the rules and thinking critically so they don't repeat the same questions and comments for the next 30 years.

Having studied the tie-breaker rules pretty thoroughly, I came to the conclusion that they're very fair.

The number one tie-breaker (and rightfully so) is the head-to-head. What better way to prove you're better than a team than beating them? However, as has been said many times, this only applies if the tie is between two teams or if it's between three or more teams who have all played one another. Why? Well, consider this:

A beats B, B beats C, C beats A

Who are the top two teams? Hard to tell. They're all 1-1 against one another. Believe it or not, this happens quite a lot. Let's look at this year. Dallas beat Seattle but Seattle beat Green Bay. It's hard to compare Green Bay to Dallas since they never got a chance to play us. However, if Dallas also beat Green Bay, then according to the tie-breaker rules, Green Bay having lost to both Dallas and Seattle would be eliminated. Then the tie-breaker would come down to Dallas and Seattle (which Dallas won the head-to-head). But, since Green Bay and Dallas never played each other, head-to-head is not considered but conference record is. (Please just take 10 minutes and think about it. I did and I came to the conclusion that it's fair.)

Now, if you have three teams tied but two are in the same division, the team in the same division with the tie-breaker advantage eliminates the other team. This, in my opinion, is also fair. That's why, if Arizona would have won today, they would not have been compared to Seattle, Dallas and Green Bay since they would have been eliminated via being in the same division as Seattle. This method gives preference and meaning to divisions, which I agree with.

Lastly, I also agree with the order of the other procedures. First is division record, which, like I just mentioned, is an important thing in the NFL. Next is conference (which is where Dallas hurt themselves this season). Next is common games, then strength of victory, then strength of schedule, and I believe coin flip if all else fails. It makes sense. You have to win what's closest to home in the NFL. Division over conference, conference over non-conference. That's just the way it is. And I like it.

 

[Derinyar]

There's no real way to slice the tie breakers when the teams haven't all played each other or have a completely split decision. Going to conference then is probably the right decision.

What it comes down to is that one knee to the back cost us the #1 seed.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

There's no real way to slice the tie breakers when the teams haven't all played each other or have a completely split decision. Going to conference then is probably the right decision.

What it comes down to is that one knee to the back cost us the #1 seed.

Yep. The order of operations:

head-to-head (if applicable)
division (if applicable)
conference
common games (minimum of 5 games)
combined record of teams you've beaten
combined record of teams you've played
points scored and allowed against conference teams
points scored and allowed against all teams
total points in common games
total points in all games
total touchdowns in all games
if all else fails... coin flip

Hard to argue against it. It's pretty thorough and seemingly fair.

 

[Fmart322]

We should have won one more game. 13-3 would have solved that.

 

[Fizziksman]

NFL needs to take a look at tiebreakers. Head-to-head should trump conference record giving us the 2 seed and Seattle the 3.

but Seattle did beat the Packers.

 

[theogt]

A beats B, B beats C, C beats A

Who are the top two teams? Hard to tell. They're all 1-1 against one another.

While this is true, you could easily have a tie-breaker rule that says, for 3 tied teams, head to head determines unless each team has the same record in head to head games.

 

[zeroburrito]

Records against the other 12-4 teams:

Dallas 1-0
Sea 1-1
NE 1-1
GB 1-1
Den 0-2

Dallas is the only one that doesn't get a bye. Aren't tie breakers great?

look at it as we only had to play 1 while they all had to play 2.

 

[tyke1doe]

People need to just spend a few hours reading the rules and thinking critically so they don't repeat the same questions and comments for the next 30 years.

Having studied the tie-breaker rules pretty thoroughly, I came to the conclusion that they're very fair.

The number one tie-breaker (and rightfully so) is the head-to-head. What better way to prove you're better than a team than beating them? However, as has been said many times, this only applies if the tie is between two teams or if it's between three or more teams who have all played one another. Why? Well, consider this:

A beats B, B beats C, C beats A

Who are the top two teams? Hard to tell. They're all 1-1 against one another. Believe it or not, this happens quite a lot. Let's look at this year. Dallas beat Seattle but Seattle beat Green Bay. It's hard to compare Green Bay to Dallas since they never got a chance to play us. However, if Dallas also beat Green Bay, then according to the tie-breaker rules, Green Bay having lost to both Dallas and Seattle would be eliminated. Then the tie-breaker would come down to Dallas and Seattle (which Dallas won the head-to-head). But, since Green Bay and Dallas never played each other, head-to-head is not considered but conference record is. (Please just take 10 minutes and think about it. I did and I came to the conclusion that it's fair.)

Now, if you have three teams tied but two are in the same division, the team in the same division with the tie-breaker advantage eliminates the other team. This, in my opinion, is also fair. That's why, if Arizona would have won today, they would not have been compared to Seattle, Dallas and Green Bay since they would have been eliminated via being in the same division as Seattle. This method gives preference and meaning to divisions, which I agree with.

Lastly, I also agree with the order of the other procedures. First is division record, which, like I just mentioned, is an important thing in the NFL. Next is conference (which is where Dallas hurt themselves this season). Next is common games, then strength of victory, then strength of schedule, and I believe coin flip if all else fails. It makes sense. You have to win what's closest to home in the NFL. Division over conference, conference over non-conference. That's just the way it is. And I like it.

Thanks for the analysis, but do you have to be condescending in the process?

 

[StarMan2112]

but Seattle did beat the Packers.

You're right, forgot that.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

While this is true, you could easily have a tie-breaker rule that says, for 3 tied teams, head to head determines unless each team has the same record in head to head games.

I can live with that. Dallas is 1-0, Seattle is 1-1, Green Bay is 0-1. I'd be fine with the best overall records (us and Seattle) getting it. But I don't have a problem with the current system.

 

[spook930]

Nothing can be 100% "fair" it is what it is.

 

[theogt]

I can live with that. Dallas is 1-0, Seattle is 1-1, Green Bay is 0-1. I'd be fine with the best overall records (us and Seattle) getting it. But I don't have a problem with the current system.

I've tried (briefly) to come up with a scenario where this results in an unfair scenario, but the current system can certainly result in some unfair scenarios (principally, Dallas and Seattle having the same record, with Dallas winning the head to head).

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Thanks for the analysis, but do you have to be condescending in the process?

This has been a discussion for 5 weeks now. People shouldn't create a thread until they've at least read the other ones. This was discussed within threads today, and even after those discussions, three separate threads were created asking the same questions. I like how the mods put a block on people creating a new thread the first few hours after a game. If they don't, we'd get littered with literally 50+ new threads all saying the same thing. Most people either just read, or only post in discussions, or only create threads when completely necessary. If people aren't gonna bother to do those things, it annoys the people who do. Like the regular users who don't want to see the entire first three pages of threads asking the same thing.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I've tried (briefly) to come up with a scenario where this results in an unfair scenario, but the current system can certainly result in some unfair scenarios (principally, Dallas and Seattle having the same record, with Dallas winning the head to head).

Yep. It's hard to make tie-breakers perfect. Even better record is somewhat unfair if you consider strength of schedule (look at college.. 8-2 records are not created equally). The two team head-to-head is obviously a good tie-breaker. I like the three team tie-breaker when it plays out smoothly (A, B and C are tied... C lost to A and B, so C is eliminated). Of course, then you get scenarios like A beat B, B beat C, C beat A... or even A beat B, B beat C, but C never played A... which throw a wrench into things.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Losing to Colt McCoy costed us the #1 seed

 

[Phoenix]

Records against the other 12-4 teams:

Dallas 1-0
Sea 1-1
NE 1-1
GB 1-1
Den 0-2

Dallas is the only one that doesn't get a bye. Aren't tie breakers great?

Dallas got SCREWED. We should be #2 seed if not #1.