For those wanting Dallas to run the ball more

TheRomoSexual

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Ahhhh....

Groupies

Gotta love em

Another stellar contribution. Oh, and just to aid your obviously weak reading comprehension, I think Murray and Dunbar is a killer combination, so please stop trying to twist my words to meekly support your pathetic agenda.
 

jterrell

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Love it how you tell us how good a job our FO and coaching staff are doing and tell we don't have the players out of the other side of your mouth

What he is saying isn't illogical at all.
Good GMs and coaching staffs end up short players.
It's called NFL design and parity.

Chiefs were 9-0. Now they are 9-3 because they lack talent behind injured starters. The Coach and GM are "of the year" candidates just the same.

Easy to be mad about the play of our back ups then you realize other teams are playing our cast offs and getting beat just the same.

Teams going 9 or 10 wins in the regular season then winning playoff games is a regular occurrence because the NFL has pretty much assured every game is a toss up.

What Dallas needs right now is some health luck.
 

visionary

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What he is saying isn't illogical at all.
Good GMs and coaching staffs end up short players.
It's called NFL design and parity.

Chiefs were 9-0. Now they are 9-3 because they lack talent behind injured starters. The Coach and GM are "of the year" candidates just the same.

Easy to be mad about the play of our back ups then you realize other teams are playing our cast offs and getting beat just the same.

Teams going 9 or 10 wins in the regular season then winning playoff games is a regular occurrence because the NFL has pretty much assured every game is a toss up.

What Dallas needs right now is some health luck.


no one is mad, we won the game and have won 5 of 7 games and, at least in the last 2 games, the balance seems to be getting better

hopefully we get lee and Mo back soon

so the arrow is pointing up and most cowboy fans should be happy

i have of late not been a Garrett fan but if he leads us to the playoffs and some wins i will certainly give him credit for it if i have been blaming him for many of our shortcomings

the point is, one can be happy that the team is playing well, yet understand that the team is doing somethings poorly and point those out

some on the board just want everyone to pretend like that is really bad and singing happy songs and ignoring the obvious shortcomings is the only way to go, that is what i was pointing out

i do agree with you that the team needs health and luck at this stage of the game
 

jterrell

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no one is mad, we won the game and have won 5 of 7 games and, at least in the last 2 games, the balance seems to be getting better

hopefully we get lee and Mo back soon

so the arrow is pointing up and most cowboy fans should be happy

i have of late not been a Garrett fan but if he leads us to the playoffs and some wins i will certainly give him credit for it if i have been blaming him for many of our shortcomings

the point is, one can be happy that the team is playing well, yet understand that the team is doing somethings poorly and point those out

some on the board just want everyone to pretend like that is really bad and singing happy songs and ignoring the obvious shortcomings is the only way to go, that is what i was pointing out

i do agree with you that the team needs health and luck at this stage of the game

the team obviously has issues. no one is denying that.
but it makes all the sense in the world to enjoy being in 1st place and 2 games over .500 for a club that hasn't been that good very often for 15 years.
all 32 teams have major concerns.
it just it what it is.

garrett... i think he was/is a terrible offensive coordinator and was against hiring him.
but also recognize his in game mgmt has improved 10 fold and his ability not to get too high or too low helps a bipolar team.
he is a coach with a great long-term future and that's what jerry bet on.
as a fan base we have sat through a rebuilding on garrett's watch.
hard to imagine rebuilding with romo/ware/witten on the roster but that's what they've done.
it's nearing completion and hopefully it pays off.
 

visionary

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the team obviously has issues. no one is denying that.
but it makes all the sense in the world to enjoy being in 1st place and 2 games over .500 for a club that hasn't been that good very often for 15 years.
all 32 teams have major concerns.
it just it what it is.

garrett... i think he was/is a terrible offensive coordinator and was against hiring him.
but also recognize his in game mgmt has improved 10 fold and his ability not to get too high or too low helps a bipolar team.
he is a coach with a great long-term future and that's what jerry bet on.
as a fan base we have sat through a rebuilding on garrett's watch.
hard to imagine rebuilding with romo/ware/witten on the roster but that's what they've done.
it's nearing completion and hopefully it pays off.

i largely agree with your post

i am hoping it starts paying off this year though with at least 1 playoff win
 

jesusdlg

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Hello everyone,

I believe the most important thing of running the ball its to control the game clock and give your defense some time off the field so they can get better pressure to the opponent QB. The shorter the Offenses are the shorter time the defense get to some air and be ready to stop the offense.

I think that was the main reason of the success of the 90's team, that offense usually took a lot of time from the clock on long offenses and the defense was fresh to do their job.
 

Big D

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In order to get the long runs you have to run the ball. The rb position is about rhythm, the more you do it the better it gets.
 

Clove

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I just want this offense, this team to have an identity. Something we're known for. When we run like crazy one week, and can't run anymore. That's not an identity. When we have a Denver type passing game, and then can't pass anymore, that's not an identity. I just want us to be great at SOMETHING. But right now, let me enjoy the little winning we're doing.
 

Bleu Star

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At this point in our conversation, it makes perfect sense to agree to disagree. You apparently see certain indicators in my opinion that I also see in yours. I'm just thankful that I am seeing more of what I have screamed at the top of my lungs about as of late and not the same old air Romo offensive attack. I think our defense appreciates it too but don't trip over yourself trying to understand how.


Don't need stats to realize what turned the game was the 2 minute drive that included a series of open sets and Tony Romo passes.
Once Dez and Witten got going the rest was easy.

This team is not good enough to run to win. They have to pass to win.
Balance is always the desire but it's also why the defense takes away one side of the game from you.

The Murray 15 carry stat is cute but pointless. Of course when we are ahead and running the ball to win the clock we tend to fare well. Same as all teams when they have big leads.

Murray and Dunbar making it through a game without either being nicked up is a minor miracle. And that has been another limiting factor for the run game.
 

Big D

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I just want this offense, this team to have an identity. Something we're known for. When we run like crazy one week, and can't run anymore. That's not an identity. When we have a Denver type passing game, and then can't pass anymore, that's not an identity. I just want us to be great at SOMETHING. But right now, let me enjoy the little winning we're doing.

Exactly! What is our identity? Are we tough, finesse, ball control, air assaulting? It seems we have multiple identities.
 

Venger

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Running stats can get tricky, you need to look at the median run as an indicator, as well as what the typical negative deviation from the mean is. Your running game does not have to be spectacular BUT it cannot frequently yield negative or 1 or zero yards, AND you need to be able to run effectively on short yardage downs - i.e. 3rd and 2, 4th and goal from the 1. A 80 yard TD run is great, but we will find more success if we make sure our run game does not kill drives with zero yard or lost yardage runs, and can move the chains/punch it in on critical run downs. Give me that over a high "average" every time.
 

Bleu Star

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Very true.. We ran very nicely on short yardage yesterday. I was both proud and impressed not only of DeMarco but also with Dunbar 's arrival and that offensive line. I believe the will of the offensive line to move objects is getting lost in this back and forth regarding run or pass. An offensive line will always more aggressively embrace firing out vs pass pro. They absolutely eat that up. Incredible job by our Oline yesterday afternoon.

On another note, did anyone notice how many stupid penalties Andre Gurode absorbed at RG for the Raiduhs yesterday? Made me chuckle every time. I liked him when he was here but absolutely love our new budding center.

Running stats can get tricky, you need to look at the median run as an indicator, as well as what the typical negative deviation from the mean is. Your running game does not have to be spectacular BUT it cannot frequently yield negative or 1 or zero yards, AND you need to be able to run effectively on short yardage downs - i.e. 3rd and 2, 4th and goal from the 1. A 80 yard TD run is great, but we will find more success if we make sure our run game does not kill drives with zero yard or lost yardage runs, and can move the chains/punch it in on critical run downs. Give me that over a high "average" every time.
 

jterrell

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Hello everyone,

I believe the most important thing of running the ball its to control the game clock and give your defense some time off the field so they can get better pressure to the opponent QB. The shorter the Offenses are the shorter time the defense get to some air and be ready to stop the offense.

I think that was the main reason of the success of the 90's team, that offense usually took a lot of time from the clock on long offenses and the defense was fresh to do their job.

not to pick too much on you here but we need to stop with the cowboys of the 90s talk. FOREVER.
this is a different era of football in every way.

running the ball works ONLY when you make first downs.
3 runs and punting isn't good for the defense any more than 3 passes and a punt is.
whether clock stops or not you get 30 seconds between plays and that's it so 2 minutes of rest for the defense.

what matters is first downs. that buys time for the defense and wins field position battles.

no team goes into games saying we want to suck running the football.

the best rushing team in football? Washington. that 4 win Oakland team we just beat is 4th best.
running is a good way to score field goals in this league.

so while every one wants to be able to both run and pass if i can only have one give me the pass.
 

khiladi

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Maybe, just maybe, running becomes effective when you employ play-action....
 

dstovall5

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The point is not to become one dimensional. The more ways you can attack a defense, the better. Plus, if you watched the teams from the early 90's, if you can run the ball you can keep a good opposing offense off the field or end the game when you have the lead by grinding out first downs and running out the clock.
I agree, if we're running the ball well it creates another dimension for our offense and makes us that much more potent. But what if we're running the ball terribly and it's only hurting our passing at that point in the game? Do you say screw it, we're going to let our franchise QB take over, or do you stick with the ineffective running game?

If you're going to remove the 'longest run' as an outlier - please, at least remove the longest TFL as a countermanding outlier.

If I had that information easily assesible, I would've looked it up no problem. Regardless of TFL not being added in, it still shows how inconsistent we are running the ball and I don't see how anyone could say other wise.

The key to winning is to keep the other team off balance and have them guessing as to what we are trying to do. Running the ball will not alway produce big and long gains. But it can set the foundation for later in the game (as it did last night) and keep the other teams Offense off the field along with closing out games. Yesterday was a prime example of have to pass to set up the run. They played 8 to 9 men in the box and dared us to pass the ball. Other times we will have to run vice pass. Its not a sure method of winning, but if we are up in a game and we run smart, throw to the check down WR or RB we can use the clock. And that my friend is a key that this team has been missing for a while now!

So again I ask, what would YOU do if we only had like 10 carries for 30 yards, but 25 of those yards came on one play. Would you stick with our innefective running game, even though it's getting stuffed and forcing long 2nd/3rd downs? When you have a QB as good as Romo, you're better off just passing and using short routes as your running game, IMO.

As clearly noted by our recent trend in W's, the real key is to utilize a balanced attack on offense to keep all 11 of our players engaged on offense and opposing defenses off balance. I'm pretty sure you tried to prove your point in my thread and it was debunked. Anyhoo... The latest results stand on their own merits. A balanced approach will get us into the playoffs not just as a 1 & done but as a serious force to be reckoned with.
Oh, & it doesn't hurt that we win at a very high percentage when DeMarco touches the ball no less than 15x. That ties directly in the the required balance on offense to avoid sliding into predictability.
Have fun with those storytelling stats.. Lol

If we're running the ball effectively, it's a big plus to our offense, but that's not what happens every game. Half the time we're NOT running the ball effectively, and that's what I'm talking about here. And you noted our latest streak of W's ... If it's not for Romo pulling out 2 clutch GWD then we're 1-3 in these past 4 games, instead we're sitting 3-1.

... Have fun believing we're winning because of our running game.

Can't buy what's being sold here...looks like cherry picking stats...you can't just throw and you can't just run....there minimally has to be some type of balance to keep the other guessing...an example of when we didn't do that was the game where we ran on 2nd down EVERY time (I think it was Detroit?)...they had our number because of predictability

What's being cherry picked here? All I did was add only our RB's carry/yards for each game, and then I took away the longest run of each game. What this shows is how inconsistent we are and it's part of the reason why we struggle moving the chains.

In the last 3 games (taking away our longest run each game) those are the stats. Seems we are learning to run better post Waters. More than anything I find that encouraging.

We definitely are running the ball better recently, but that's not what I'm asking people. Should we abandon our running game when it's NOT being effective? Because half the time our running isn't being effective as it should be, and that much is obvious. I believe we should come out trying to ground and pound, but if we're being ineffective at it then we should just put the ball in Romo hands. Like I said before though, if we're running effectively then there's no reason to abandon it.
 

TwoDeep3

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Lately, there seems to be a trend going on around here. People more and more have been saying we need to run the ball more and stop abandoning it, but is that really in our best interest? The reason we DON'T run the ball more is because we're terribly inconsistent at it. So lets take a look at each of our games and see how our running game produced.

W week 1 21ATT / 88YDS = 4.19YPC - *W/O LongRun 20ATT / 75YDS = 3.75YPC
L week 2 13ATT / 37YDS = 2.84YPC - *W/O LongRun 12ATT / 25YDS = 2.08YPC
W week 3 34ATT / 193YDS = 5.70YPC - *W/O LongRun 33ATT / 152YDS = 4.60YPC
L week 4 15ATT / 77YDS = 5.13YPC - *W/O LongRun 14ATT / 56YDS = 4.00YPC
L week 5 12ATT / 43YDS = 3.58YPC - *W/O LongRun 11ATT / 30YDS = 2.72YPC
W week 6 19ATT / 48YDS = 2.52YPC - *W/O LongRun 18ATT / 34YDS = 1.88YPC
W week 7 21ATT / 66YDS = 3.14YPC - *W/O LongRun 20ATT / 54YDS = 2.70YPC
L week 8 21ATT / 50YDS = 2.38YPC - *W/O LongRun 20ATT / 41YDS = 2.05YPC
W week 9 8ATT / 32YDS = 3.50YPC - *W/O LongRun 7ATT / 5YDS = 0.71YPC
L week 10 16ATT / 89YDS = 5.56YPC - *W/O LongRun 15ATT / 54YDS = 3.60YPC
W week 11 20ATT / 107YDS = 5.35YPC - *W/O LongRun 19ATT / 77YDS = 4.05YPC
W week 12 29ATT / 145YDS = 5.00YPC - *W/O LongRun 28ATT / 100YDS = 3.57YPC

As you can see, I not only found our ATT/YDS/YPC for each game, but I also added another column where I took away our longest run. What this shows is how inconsistent our running game is.

For example, there's no reason taking away a 27 yard gain should account for 85% of our total yards, that's just pathetic. With the long runs taking out, you can see how bad we are running the ball consistently, and it's part of the reason we have such a big problem moving the chains. It seems like during critical situations where we need 3-4 yards to pick up a first, we always get stuffed, or at least don't pick up the first down. And the stats even back this up, our YPC on 2nd/3rd and short is ranked 27th/29th out of all NFL teams, that's terrible.

I understand if we're running the ball well (like today) then there's no reason to abandon it, but when our running game has only 20-30 yards after 10 carries, then yes it's time to start passing the ball. Especially when we have one of the better QBs in the NFL. I just can't wrap my head around how inconsistent we are running the ball, your running game is usually suppose to be somewhat consistent week in and week out.

So I don't understand what all the fuss is about, why do people want us to continue running the ball even when it's ineffective? For the most part, all our running game has been doing this year is creating 3rd and long downs for our passing game, but yet people still don't want us to abandon it.

So what am I missing here?

What your missing is you build your opinion on stats and not strategy.

Did you hear Sims yesterday say in the second half that Oakland was being fooled by Dallas. Every time they thought it would be run, it was pass and every time they looked for the pass it was run.

Finding your best match-up and exploiting defensive confusion is what wins.

That requires a balanced attack.

Play action also works if you actually run the ball some.
 

Bleu Star

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This.....
What your missing is you build your opinion on stats and not strategy.

Did you hear Sims yesterday say in the second half that Oakland was being fooled by Dallas. Every time they thought it would be run, it was pass and every time they looked for the pass it was run.

Finding your best match-up and exploiting defensive confusion is what wins.

That requires a balanced attack.

Play action also works if you actually run the ball some.
 

dstovall5

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What your missing is you build your opinion on stats and not strategy.

Did you hear Sims yesterday say in the second half that Oakland was being fooled by Dallas. Every time they thought it would be run, it was pass and every time they looked for the pass it was run.

Finding your best match-up and exploiting defensive confusion is what wins.

That requires a balanced attack.

Play action also works if you actually run the ball some.

Because we actually ran the ball effectively yesterday. There's been a lot of games this year where we haven't ran the ball effectively, so what would you do then? Because when you're getting stuffed, you're not setting up your passing game, all you're doing is taking away a chance of Romo making a play.

Also, if what you said about play action is true, then explain this. If Dallas is among the bottom is attempts of rushing, then why are they among the best in play action?
 

visionary

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I agree, if we're running the ball well it creates another dimension for our offense and makes us that much more potent.



If we're running the ball effectively, it's a big plus to our offense, but that's not what happens every game. Half the time we're NOT running the ball effectively, and that's what I'm talking about here.


We definitely are running the ball better recently, but that's not what I'm asking people. Should we abandon our running game when it's NOT being effective? Because half the time our running isn't being effective as it should be, and that much is obvious. I believe we should come out trying to ground and pound, but if we're being ineffective at it then we should just put the ball in Romo hands.

if you truly believe your first 2 statements, then the third one makes no sense

if you know doing something makes you more effective but some days you not able to do it

the response should not be: give it up completely

the response should be: why cant i do it on some days?

it is a radical new idea called "Problem solving"

look it up

that is what a good coaching staff does
they are not supposed to throw up their hands and say 'oh well, we cant run the ball effectively so lets give up'

OTOH, when one goes into a retrospective analysis with a preconceived notion, you migth be surprised how often one is able to 'find' that the analysis backs up that notion

its called bias
 

TwoDeep3

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Because we actually ran the ball effectively yesterday. There's been a lot of games this year where we haven't ran the ball effectively, so what would you do then? Because when you're getting stuffed, you're not setting up your passing game, all you're doing is taking away a chance of Romo making a play.

Also, if what you said about play action is true, then explain this. If Dallas is among the bottom is attempts of rushing, then why are they among the best in play action?

Still run the ball.

Because if you want all the pass plays to work that are built off of deception, then you have to actually run the ball to get them to be as effective as possible.

It is simple football.
 
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