Fresh Legs on Front Seven

[Hostile]

In the early 90's when the team was winning Super Bowls one thing that we did that I loved was keep fresh legs on the Defenseive line. I would like to see that again across the front 7. I think by the end of games we have guys getting tired and sometimes I see better results from the non starters anyway.

In particular I'm talking about Ratliff and Burnett. I also saw some good pressure by Hatcher before he got hurt and I think Carpenter needs playing time more than anything else.

If thsoe 4 in particular got more playing time to rest some of our starters maybe by games end they'd have fresher legs and not give the QB so much time to make plays.

Think about it folks. One of the reasons why Bledsoe is on the sidelines is what? Tony Romo gets rid of the ball faster and beats that 2.5 seconds after the snap horn. If it works on the offensive side of the ball then you also need it to work on the defensive side of the ball. Meaning in 2.5 seconds we need to be in the QBs mug and forcing the issue.

This Sunday is a perfect opportunity to put this theory into practice. The Cardinals OL is reeling and their QB is a rookie. We have got to get pressure on the QB consistently. I don't care who that pressure comes from.

In 2 weeks we face a QB who if we don't have guys right in his business will carve us up like a turkey on Thanksgiving.

It's now or never. Parcells talks a good game about sitting guys more so they have fresh legs. I think it's time he did more than just talk about it.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

In particular I'm talking about Ratliff and Burnett. I also saw some good pressure by Hatcher before he got hurt and I think Carpenter needs playing time more than anything else.

I have been preaching for this type of moves for the past 4 weeks.....your right!

 

[superpunk]

It's now or never. Parcells talks a good game about sitting guys more so they have fresh legs. I think it's time he did more than just talk about it.

Getting tired of hearing THAT over and over again. He continues to mention how he needs to get guys like Barber more involved - how he needs to get Ware more rest, etc. Instead, we never see Ware off the field, and we never see any versatility that this defense should provide. He explains it's his fault, for not doing that, and I don't know what prevents him. All this alleged "depth" needs to be used.

I can't figure out for the life of me, considering his impressive performance in the offseason, why Burnett doesn't see more time, at the very least in the nickel. I thought he and Carpenter were going to be our nickel backers. Ayodele and James are leaving some large voids between themselves and the safeties, and that's been there all year for anyone with a decent TE. They just don't have the speed that's necessary. Allegedly, that's where Carpenter and Burnett excel, considering Burnett was a former safety.

I really think Ellis needs someone to consistently spell him, maybe 60-40. I don't think he can handle all the snaps he's getting, all the movement in space is wearing him down.

 

[Hostile]

Getting tired of hearing THAT over and over again. He continues to mention how he needs to get guys like Barber more involved - how he needs to get Ware more rest, etc. Instead, we never see Ware off the field, and we never see any versatility that this defense should provide. He explains it's his fault, for not doing that, and I don't know what prevents him. All this alleged "depth" needs to be used.

I can't figure out for the life of me, considering his impressive performance in the offseason, why Burnett doesn't see more time, at the very least in the nickel. I thought he and Carpenter were going to be our nickel backers. Ayodele and James are leaving some large voids between themselves and the safeties, and that's been there all year for anyone with a decent TE. They just don't have the speed that's necessary. Allegedly, that's where Carpenter and Burnett excel, considering Burnett was a former safety.

I really think Ellis needs someone to consistently spell him, maybe 60-40. I don't think he can handle all the snaps he's getting, all the movement in space is wearing him down.

I completely agree. It is easy to see why Roy Williams is so maligned in coverage. He regularly is out there on WRs for 6 or 7 seconds it seems. Yet we want our QB to get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds.

I think we're nearing the time when the Nickel will be a base defensive look for some team. We may even be the first. That means more than ever that we need guys to step up their games.

Burnett & Ratliff have outplayed starters when I've seen them in there.

I'm to the point where I'd start Burnett at SOLB and bring Ellis in only for passing downs. I know it would upset him and that he's played well adjusting to the LB position. It's still too infrequent that he gets to the QB and I think it is directly related to having to run more as a LB than he ever has had to.

 

[Zaxor]

I wrote about this in a couple of other threads but noone seem to see it or thought it too dumb to reply to but don't you think..

if you have a 4 man front of Ellis, Spears, Fergie and Ware...backed up by Ratliff, Canty and Hatcher...

I think you already get a better pass rush without giving up much on the run

now if you put Burnett and James and Ayodele at LB you still have size to stop the run but you also have more coverage ability and maybe a guy or two that can blitz from the edge...(Burnett)

oh and Hos is that not a lovely redhead in my avatar

 

[Hostile]

I wrote about this in a couple of other threads but noone seem to see it or thought it too dumb to reply to but don't you think..

if you have a 4 man front of Ellis, Spears, Fergie and Ware...backed up by Ratliff, Canty and Hatcher...

I think you already get a better pass rush without giving up much on the run

now if you put Burnett and James and Ayodele at LB you still have size to stop the run but you also have more coverage ability and maybe a guy or two that can blitz from the edge...(Burnett)

oh and Hos is that not a lovely redhead in my avatar

You know I love redheads man. I love 'em.

I'd be fine sticking with the 3-4 scheme, I just want us to keep guys rotating like the 90's.

Maryland, Lett, Jimmie Jones, Haley, Tolbert, Hennings, all got valuable PT and because of it that D always seemed to make big plays. It can work here.

I'm not saying our guys aren't playing well, they are. Especially against the run. But we need more pressure on the QB.

 

[gbrittain]

Hos, good stuff. We have peaked as a defense until we figure out how to get to the QB.

I have read every excuse in the book by the defense apologists. Bottom line wether it be players or coaching or both our defense will continue to give up long drives and big plays when the other team needs them most until Dallas figures out a way to get to the QB.

What frustrates me to no end is that for all the talk the past few years about our OL, what is killing us is that we can not get to the QB.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

While they don't have the depth that they had back in the 90's and the Hatcher injury doesn't help, they still have good depth. You've got Ratliff and Kenyon Coleman (who plays pretty well in a backup role). LB's really don't need a ton of rest given their position and all, but we've got depth there.

They are defending the run very well right now, only 3.4 ypc at 85 yards per game. Our main problems against the run came in the NYG game and on trick plays. So I really don't see any glaring signs of the front 7 wearing down.

I still think the problem is the blitz disguise is atrocious. They are blitzing, but it is way too easily picked up and the percentage of times we sack the QB when we blitz is entirely too low. I think it's a Zimmer issue (blitz disguise has been a problem of his since he became D-Coordinator, before Parcells was coach), but it may be an entirely different problem.



YAKUZA

 

[Crown Royal]

I agree with fresh legs, but I don't think you want to blitz Leinart. I haven't watched much since his Monday night performance -but this rookie doesn't hold the ball at all and WILL get it out of there very soon.

You beat Leinart by rushing four and playing coverage, forcing him to take coverage sacks. Blitz him and you'll see a LOT of slants with Boldin.

I hate to make this prediction - but I say that Newman gives up his first TD since 2004 on Sunday.

 

[joseephuss]

I agree with fresh legs, but I don't think you want to blitz Leinart. I haven't watched much since his Monday night performance -but this rookie doesn't hold the ball at all and WILL get it out of there very soon.

You beat Leinart by rushing four and playing coverage, forcing him to take coverage sacks. Blitz him and you'll see a LOT of slants with Boldin.

I hate to make this prediction - but I say that Newman gives up his first TD since 2004 on Sunday.

No, they will pick on Henry like they did last year.

 

[Zaxor]

You know I love redheads man. I love 'em.

I'd be fine sticking with the 3-4 scheme, I just want us to keep guys rotating like the 90's.

Maryland, Lett, Jimmie Jones, Haley, Tolbert, Hennings, all got valuable PT and because of it that D always seemed to make big plays. It can work here.

I'm not saying our guys aren't playing well, they are. Especially against the run. But we need more pressure on the QB.

against the run Canty and Spears are okay but they fail pretty miserably against the pass...

I don't think we lose much run support by switching back to the 4-3 but you get Ellis, Ware, Fergie and maybe Ratliff coming on every down that to me seems like you get a better pass rush plus with Burnett, Bradie and Ayodele playing linebacker you got some size there also to help stop the run but you also get better linebacker play than Ellis and Ware are giving you...

plus we still have some guys to rotate in i.e. hatcher, spears, canty, carpenter, singelton

it just seems to me to make sense but than what do I know

 

[ccb04]

Burnett & Ratliff have outplayed starters when I've seen them in there.

I couldn't agree more ... and that is why I think they need to be starters as I've been saying. In sticking with the 3-4, what I would like to seem them try (atleast for a game to see what happens), is this.....

Start Ratliff at LDE and move Ellis back to RDE. Rotate Spears and Canty in to spell Ratliff and Ellis. Move Ware to SOLB and start Burnett on the right side. Carpenter could spell Ware and Singleton could spell Burnett.

With that said, I like Zaxor's idea even better ... and have mentioned it before myself. ... Ellis, Ratliff, Ferguson, and Ware uprfront ... with Ayodele, James, and Burnett at LB. There are two primary reasons I like the idea. ... 1st: In a read and react defense that has trouble disguising blitzes, why would you saddle your best edge rushers with the additional responsibility of coverage? ... 2nd: In the 3-4, we get almost no pressure up the middle, which is the shortest route to the QB. Thus, I think we would be better off having two guys busting the gut so to speak. I would like to say simply blitz more often up the middle, but that goes back to our blitzes being picked up too easily.

Other pluses, as Zaxor mentioned, is that we would maintain solid size at LB to stop the run ... and Burnett and Ayodele could be solid blitzing off the edges.

If Belichick were still coordinating Parcells' 3-4 defense, I would be all for sticking with it. Hell, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

[Hostile]

I agree with fresh legs, but I don't think you want to blitz Leinart. I haven't watched much since his Monday night performance -but this rookie doesn't hold the ball at all and WILL get it out of there very soon.

You beat Leinart by rushing four and playing coverage, forcing him to take coverage sacks. Blitz him and you'll see a LOT of slants with Boldin.

I hate to make this prediction - but I say that Newman gives up his first TD since 2004 on Sunday.

I'm not sure if Fitzgerald is still hurt or not. I guess we'll know soon. Boldin needs to be shadowed by Newman if Fitz is out. He's most dangerous on Slants and Outs. Has good hands and like TO once he catches the ball he gets yac because he can bull people over.

I always want to pressure a rookie. 2 or 3 big mistakes per game for a reeling team is more than enough to rattle a young QB.

 

[Screw The Hall]

Yep I agree with ya Hos.

The thing about depth is if you don't use it then it really means nothing. It almost feels like a wasted resource of ours at this point. Depth can help you in a variety of ways. One way that you touched on nicely is by providing everyone fresher legs. Fresher legs later in games ... fresher legs as the season becomes more and more of a grind towards the back half of the schedule.

One element of depth I'd like to mention is going with the hot hand. I played basketball at a fairly competitive level for a number of years and one thing I always believed in as a PG was recognizing who had the hot hand at any given moment and getting them the ball when they wanted it where they wanted it. It's a theory that works for all sports though and it doesn't work any better than when the team that utilizes it that has good depth.

What I see out of this defense right now are alot of above average to very good players but very few dynamic ones. Some of those "solid" players aren't on the field very often. Dynamic players play well most of the time and are game changers so they have to be on the field most of the time. Newman and RW are the only two guys on the defensive side of the ball that fit into that category right now for my money.

But solid players do their jobs most of the time while making the game altering big play on occassion. Sometimes a guy has a special game and plays above his head, they have the "hot hand". You should keep feeding them playing time until they aren't hot anymore or someone else is. This is a dynamic of depth that gives versatility to your team since the guy with the "hot hand" usually has a different skill set then the guy he steps in for giving a different look and pace to your defense. Often times this is the very reason why someone gets a hot hand the offensive player has a hard time adjusting to the multiple skill sets that are being used against him.

Finally it makes for a more competitive lockerroom and sideline when you know you are going to see the field alot if you play lights out ... and you are going to get every opportunity to do so. I think it fosters a pack mentality for your ballclub also that is an especially important quality on great defenses. You might take some lumps when initially introducing some of these guys into live game situations. But the rewards far outweigh the risks IMHO.

 

[Mash]

Bill is too stuborn and Zimmer has no idea how to pressure a QB

I gave up hoping our defensive line would be aggressive and we could disguise a blitz that was worthy.

We are what we are.....a passive defence that Bill loves to play man up and hope for the best.......

What we will continue to see....is our ..CB's and safties running for their lives trying to cover....because of the lack of a pass rush and Ellis getting exposed on pass plays....and is too slow on containment.

Dallas bringing the heat is a fantasy.....

 

[joseephuss]

Bill is too stuborn and Zimmer has no idea how to pressure a QB

I gave up hoping our defensive line would be aggressive and we could disguise a blitz that was worthy.

We are what we are.....a passive defence that Bill loves to play man up and hope for the best.......

What we will continue to see....is our ..CB's and safties running for their lives trying to cover....because of the lack of a pass rush and Ellis getting exposed on pass plays....and is too slow on containment.

Dallas bringing the heat is a fantasy.....

Has Ellis been exposed in pass coverage? I guess they may be scheming to protect him, but I don't see teams attacking him. I also don't think he is slow in containment. He was on the Portis run, but most of the time he is right there taking on blockers and turning the play back in.

 

[Zaxor]

I couldn't agree more ... and that is why I think they need to be starters as I've been saying. In sticking with the 3-4, what I would like to seem them try (atleast for a game to see what happens), is this.....

Start Ratliff at LDE and move Ellis back to RDE. Rotate Spears and Canty in to spell Ratliff and Ellis. Move Ware to SOLB and start Burnett on the right side. Carpenter could spell Ware and Singleton could spell Burnett.

With that said, I like Zaxor's idea even better ... and have mentioned it before myself. ... Ellis, Ratliff, Ferguson, and Ware uprfront ... with Ayodele, James, and Burnett at LB. There are two primary reasons I like the idea. ... 1st: In a read and react defense that has trouble disguising blitzes, why would you saddle your best edge rushers with the additional responsibility of coverage? ... 2nd: In the 3-4, we get almost no pressure up the middle, which is the shortest route to the QB. Thus, I think we would be better off having two guys busting the gut so to speak. I would like to say simply blitz more often up the middle, but that goes back to our blitzes being picked up too easily.

Other pluses, as Zaxor mentioned, is that we would maintain solid size at LB to stop the run ... and Burnett and Ayodele could be solid blitzing off the edges.

If Belichick were still coordinating Parcells' 3-4 defense, I would be all for sticking with it. Hell, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Well I am glad to see it makes sense to someone else also

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Fitz should be back this week. He did some workouts last week.

 

[SBChamps]

Since this team can't blitz worth crap, I like the idea of going back to 4-3 and have Ware rush the passer all the time. And mabye have him drop back once in a while using some zone blitzes with Burnett/Carp.

 

[Hostile]

RDE...Chris Canty & Jason Hatcher
NT...Jason Ferguson & J'Vonne Parker
LDE...Marcus Spears, Jay Ratliff, & Kenyon Coleman

SOLB...Greg Ellis & Al Singleton
MLB...Bradie James & Ryan Fowler
JLB...Akin Ayodele, Bobby Carpenter, & Oliver Hoyte
WOLB...DeMarcus Ware, Kevin Burnett, & Junior Glymph

Okay, per DC.com this is the front 7 depth.

I think we gotta figure Hoyte is no longer in this equation and Glymph is probably STs only at this point.

By looking at this you can easily see that this staff envisions this as the LB corps of our future.

SOLB...Burnett
MLB...James
JLB...Carpenter
WOLB...Ware

At the very least give this group time to be on the field together at the same time in every game. They need to identify with each other. I look at that group and I see good run support potential.

The exception might be if Carpenter is moved back outside, but I don't think he will. He still could get some PT there in relief situations.

I'd like to see Ellis utilized on passing downs for QB pressure with Burnett perhaps spelling Ware on occasion when he needs a break.

Bradie James is our signal caller, but Fowler can give him some rest. Especially in a Nickel.

I'd love to see Ratliff, Hatcher, Ellis, and Ware on passing downs.

I think Ware can play all 3 downs, but the others shouldn't, and he should still get relief regularly whether it is from Carpenter or Burnett.

I keep thinking Singleton will be phased out and eventually he will. I think it is time to move towards that.